• Responding to email notices you receive.
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  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Business Ethics or Lack of Them...

Don't be so hard on "back-yard breeders". There are a lot of small time breeders out here that are every bit a conscientious as you big-timers. I only produce 50-60 offspring each year (so far) but I promise, I am as dedicated to my animals, to proper husbandry and to quality, ethical business practices as you are. And there are many more like me out there.
 
You are misunderstanding I think, Gregory. BYB, in the sense being discussed here, can be equated with your typical puppy mill and its care (or lack thereof) for the animals.

Most of us are small time, but just because you're small time doesn't mean you're a BYB.
 
Definition of Backyard Breeder, from Wikipedia. (yeah, I know, but they have a good definition in this case.)

Backyard Breeder is a term used for breeders of dogs in a largely pejorative sense by the Animal Welfare community, ASPCA, larger established breeders and dog club. It is used to refer to one of the groups usually deemed not to be a Reputable Breeder.

It implies either or both of careless home breeding for non-commercial reasons or a small commercial operation that does not adhere to good breeding, care and sale practises. In contrast, larger commercial operations of a similar type are usually termed a puppy mill (especially in North America) or puppy farm.

This type of breeder is usually regarded by the Animal Welfare, ASPCA, and canine establishment as likely to exhibit one or more of the following faults:

Ignorance of selective breeding goals and techniques, and lack of familiarity with the breed standard of the type of dog being bred.
Exclusive focus on the breed standard involving little genetic screening or Co-efficient of Inbreeding calculations.
Breeding of a working breed for appearance rather than working ability. This is a criticism also levelled at 'reputable' breeders who breed for the show ring - in some cases distinct working and show strains have emerged.
Lack of adequate veterinary care and maintenance.
Excessive breeding from individual (females), to the detriment of their health.
Sale of puppies with genetic disorders or undisclosed illnesses before they become evident to buyers.
Lack of screening of potential owners or the provision of suitable information to prevent buyers from purchasing a dog that may be inappropriate for them or their lifestyle.
Breeding of dogs for illegitimate reasons, such as for the usually illegal sports of baiting and dog fighting or to defend venues of criminal activity. Dog fanciers generally believe that such ill-bred dogs are the reason for the bad reputation of some breeds in the public perception, and the resulting breed-specific legislation.
Breeding without concern for the possibility of finding homes, though commercial means or otherwise, for the puppies, thus adding to the population of unwanted dogs.
There are campaigns to reduce or eliminate this type of breeding in several countries. The primary concern of the Animal Welfare community is that this type of breeding is the major source of pet animals and that overproduction has led to overpopulation and hence to welfare issues and the putting down of animals for no other reason than the lack of suitable home. Most dog breed societies and Kennel Clubs have similar concerns but place rather more stress on issues relating to breed standardisation and quality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backyard_breeder
 
I'd like to see some more concern given to the animal when shipping them, as well. This (see pic below) is NOT an acceptable way to ship a snake in November. Actually, I'd like to think it's not acceptable to ship one this way, period.
 

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Well, I have to say I've received worse....but doesn't mean it's anything close to acceptable. I guess some people don't realize - or don't care - that the way they package animals reflects on them. I choose not to use the premade shipping kits most of the time, but I'm fairly anal about preparing shipping boxes.

Ever get a snake in a box that smelled like bad feet, and found that the snake was in a dirty sock? :>Puke<:
 
I'd like to see some more concern given to the animal when shipping them, as well. This (see pic below) is NOT an acceptable way to ship a snake in November. Actually, I'd like to think it's not acceptable to ship one this way, period.

No styrofoam to maintain temps? Was the animal cold when you received him? Could this have been a noob mistake (I have made a couple when I first started shipping)?
 
No Harald. No dirty socks. Yet.


No styrofoam to maintain temps? Was the animal cold when you received him? Could this have been a noob mistake (I have made a couple when I first started shipping)?

No styrofoam. Just the few sheets of newspaper. The tub was lying directly on two heat packs and was still cold to the touch and quite sluggish.

I wish I could say that it was a newbie job, but I can't. I'm really regretting not opening my mouth about it when it happened, but had other stuff going on at that time and wasn't in the mood for a long drawn out boi battle. This person has quite high feedback and should know better.

Obviously, a lack of ethics and regard for both the animals welfare and the shipping company's policy.
 
No Harald. No dirty socks. Yet.




No styrofoam. Just the few sheets of newspaper. The tub was lying directly on two heat packs and was still cold to the touch and quite sluggish.

I wish I could say that it was a newbie job, but I can't. I'm really regretting not opening my mouth about it when it happened, but had other stuff going on at that time and wasn't in the mood for a long drawn out boi battle. This person has quite high feedback and should know better.

Obviously, a lack of ethics and regard for both the animals welfare and the shipping company's policy.

Based on that picture, and the lack of styrofoam of any kind, in the months weather...I would have to agree. I do wish you had posted about it.:(
 
No Harald. No dirty socks. Yet
Figures I'd be the "lucky" one....

I received a milksnake once in a small Uncle Ben's box, with some dirty bedding, all inside of a partially spray painted cereal box. That was probably the worst one.

oops - sorry - there was a point to your picture.......................shutting up now
 
I agree with Deborah. However, I also want to add that it is never too late, you can always preface a BOI entry by doing just what you did here and saying how busy you were and so on.
The BOI helps purchasers, but in cases like this, it might also serve to improve life for the critters themselves.
 
No Harald. No dirty socks. Yet.




No styrofoam. Just the few sheets of newspaper. The tub was lying directly on two heat packs and was still cold to the touch and quite sluggish.

I wish I could say that it was a newbie job, but I can't. I'm really regretting not opening my mouth about it when it happened, but had other stuff going on at that time and wasn't in the mood for a long drawn out boi battle. This person has quite high feedback and should know better.

Obviously, a lack of ethics and regard for both the animals welfare and the shipping company's policy.


Could you PM me the name of this seller please? I don't wanna buy from them.
 
Could you PM me the name of this seller please? I don't wanna buy from them.

Seriously!!

I have noticed a tendency of those with higher "clout," or better known names to think/believe that they can stay below the "bad guy" radar with substandard business/shipping practices. Most of the time, it's because some people just don't want to deal with the fallout/flack of having their friends rush to their defense, so they don't post their experiences, but the tide is changing...as certain as the sun comes up..some are going to fall. (I looked into my crystal ball..I know!)

Back to being serious:: My observations are that such people with perceived "clout" tend to think the rules don't apply to them, and because that's the way it was done in the past, that's the way they can keep doing it, because "it could have been worse." They don't seem to realize that the fact that they don't police themselves is the reason we have to deal with politics placing controls on our hobby.

To clarify the above statment: They either don't realize or simply don't care because their past behavior has now given them a new cash cow! Because of previous lacks of self-policing, we now have to donate money to a hundred and one (exaggerating here...let me tell it MY way) agencies that need money to "protect" us. :ack2:
 
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Quality control is now in the hands of the buyer in 99% of transactions. I notice this a lot in the automotive word. It's cheaper just to send parts out without any kind QC and correct on a case-by-case basis. 100,000 parts go out, 10,000 are faulty. Complaints: 6,000 are repaired/replaced and 4,000 never come back. Repairing/replacing 6,000 complaints is cheaper than fixing 10,000 parts beforehand and hiring people for QC.

Vehicle recalls work the same way. Is having a recall cheaper than getting sued? If not, status quo.

I'm starting to notice similiar traits in this industry.
 
It's such a shame, because the bigger victims in most unethical business practices are the animals. I can't stand watching people at reptile shows I go to try and sell a very sick animal to some unsuspecting person. And a lot of the sicknesses are caused from poor care and/or improper diet. Then you have the shipping issues, like the picture posted on the page before. I suppose as long as you're not the one freezing out in the cold, it's not a big deal.

One of the bigger issues I see is people pawning an animal off as being easy to take care of, when in fact, it is not. Many animals die weeks or even months after being bought because of this, and of course by then all guarantees are null and void.
 
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