Buyer Beware of Steve Ori Forgotten Realm

[Casey Hulse]

If that boa is worth $450, then sell him to someone who wants him, Drew does not. Why ruin your rep. for $100?

 

[The BoidSmith]

Steve,

It would be helpful to read the first e-mails where Drew was requesting a specific animal as well as the conditions under which the deposit was going to be refunded.

Regards.

 

[sputnik]

HMMMM

Seems buyer wasn't happy with what he saw in the end.
It still gets back to the signature that says "Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Back."

Drew doesn't seem satisfied. I may be wrong, but in one of Drews emails Steve states he will get his money back if not happy. Why the $100 can't be refunded and this snake cannot be sold to someone that wants it is a mystery to me.

It appears Drew just wants his $100 deposit amount back, not a lot of money and it's not like he paid in full and wants that refunded. It's just a deposit amount for which Steve is going to great lengths to not refund.... satisfaction guaranteed...NOT!

 

[A Forgotten Realm]

OK enough. If you wish to investigate you'll find that there have been 33 posts other than Drew and myself the two involved. Out of the 33 posts 7 have posted only once, that leaves 26 posts by six individuals. They have a combined amount of posts of over three thousand posts since feb of 2002. Who that doesn't live with mamma anymore and is an adult has the time to post close to 2000 posts (which one of these people has done) in a years time? I'm sorry but if you check at this board you'll see how a teenager, who I came on this board to protect screwed me and caused me to be alittle doughtfull of all that is printed.
I give up. I'll call a few friends of mine:

Brian Sharp (one of my mentors)
Doug Matuszak
John @ salmonboas.com (Rich Ihle's manager, don't know Rich personnally)
Todd Smith (co-delveloper of the salmon boa with Rich Ihle)
Mike Smith (hypo Brazilian rainbows)
Brendon Magee of BCI by desighn (home of the harlequin boa)

I figure six breeders next to six teenagers should be fair. If these six well known breeders tell me to refund the money I'll be glad to and will provide an apoligy. If the majority of them say to I will. Can we leave it at that people?

 

[sputnik]

DEAD POST

Out of the 33 posts 7 have posted only once, that leaves 26 posts by six individuals. They have a combined amount of posts of over three thousand posts since feb of 2002.

Nice stats, but BIG DEAL. All that shows is that some people take the business of reptiles and the hobby rather seriously.

Who that doesn't live with mamma anymore and is an adult has the time to post close to 2000 posts (which one of these people has done)

This really has nothing to do with the issue on this thread and is a rather pointless stab in the dark IMHO.

I figure six breeders next to six teenagers should be fair.

Please point out the six teenagers you are mentioning? Because they are teenagers (supposedly) does that mean thier opinions are not of value?

Calling 6 breeders to keep someones deposit from an unsatisfied customer?

 

[Casey Hulse]

I think if you could get them to post here, that would show that they have an opinion also. Sounds like you better ask one of them for a loan for the $100 while you are at it.

 

[bpc]

UMMM... NO STEVE... WE CAN'T!

You do care about your public opinion, otherwise you wouldn't have posted here at all. So, by insulting everyone as you just did, you just shot yourself in the foot again. How much time an individual spends on the site is really none of your concern (unless you worry about how many times they see that assinine response of yours), so don't go there. Besides, how long did it take you to go through and count up who posts what, and how many times, and how much they've posted since...... By the way, hows your mom doing?

Another thing, calling and animal a "pastel stripe" (your words) means the animal must be pastel and striped. M3 could be considered pastel yes, it's a nice looking snake, but striped it is not. The other snake is reverse striped but not striped, there's a difference and you know it. I don't call het for albino corns albinos, and in the same fashion I don't call het for stripe, stripes. If you say an animal will be a stripe, that animal must display the phenotype.

It boils down to this, he placed a deposit on a "pastel stripe" (again your words). Not a possible pastel that is probably het for a whole bunch of striping. "PASTEL STRIPE," do you have one of that phenotype to sell him or not? If not, send him back his money. Frankly, when you go so far as to advertise "satisfaction guaranteed" you should send him his money back even if the only thing not satisfying him is the price.

Steve, I don't know you, but you are one of the people from the west coast I have actually heard of before, and I had always heard good things. $100 is not worth what this is doing to your reputation. With the type of animals you produce you must guard that reputation closly. Otherwise people won't be sending you deposits on anything.

 

[DISCERN]

wow.....I am young again!

It would be nice to be a 29 year old teenager......

This is really a simple problem to solve. All the emails are the proof of this low budget crime drama.

Just send the deposit back Steve. Not everyone can stand to lose $100 like it is nothing. Preserve your good reputation.

Take care!

Billy Fraser

 

[sputnik]

TRIAL BY 6 BREEDERS TO BEGIN

Well, I guess we all sit back and wait for Steve's self appointed grand jury of six well known breeders to decide the fate of Drew's $100 deposit.......... to refund or not to refund!

Hoping they don't mind having their time wasted.

Just to think, this could ALL be avoided by refunding and selling the snake to someone else. Steve states in one email to Drew that he has a lot of people waiting, so why not refund and sell to one of the waiting parties?

"Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back".... huh, whatever happened to customer service?

Better run, mamma's calling!

 

[Da_Ru]

He never said he had to have a male reverse stripe until the end as you can see from the emails. This after I turned down two possible customers for M3 and held up my othere depositers till he made his selection. What do I tell the other people who put in there 100.00 deposit and had to wait on him?

Here is an e mail dated 3/1/03

Hello Drew,

Certainly you can get your money back. There are only a few that are full reverse tail stripes. Quite a few have very unique tails with a partial reverse stripe. So far you'd be the first to but a deposit down and I'm only gonna keep one of the reverse stripes and it has both forms of stripe so it would have cost quite a bit if I were to sell it. This is a genetic trait that is carried by all of these animals. Any of the siblings even if they don't show any striping themselves can throw full stripe babies. Last year there were four head to tail stripes in the litter. YOu just never know what to expect with the stripes. Thats one of the reasons I like them, that and all are unique from each other. You can keep this email as a contract. It is as legal and binding as a written contract of any type. Let me know what you want to do. I'm sending you a link to my kingsnake gallery where most of the animals I've got for sale are located. I've also got a 66% dh for snow circleback yearling for sale that isn't pictured. I'm also expecting babies of the following: albino burmese pythons, Diamond/ Jungle carpet pythons, Mexican black tail boas, Jungle boas, and normal boas siblings to the jungles (normal looking sibllings to the jungles have been known to produce junglles). Let me know. Here's the link: http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?user=3965&cat=500&thumb=1

Drew <[email protected]> wrote:

If I put a deposit down and if there is no more reverse stripe can I get my money back. Thanks Drew



-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Ori [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 3:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Message about: JUST BORN PASTEL STRIPE/REVERSE STRIPES



Hey Drunsar,

They've just been born and haven't shed the first time yet. They seem to get more pink with every shed. Also they are all different. I usually wait till they've shed twice and eaten at least once before I sex, take pics, and price them. They'll go anywhere from 150.00 to around 500.00 depending on stripeing and coloring. The reverse stripes will be at the top end though. I haven't seen many pastel BCI reverse stripes on the market and I'm kinda proud of them. This is a genetic trait but isn't from the Pete Kahl line. But like Pete's line the litter is always real variable. Anywhere from full stripes (head to tail) to hardly any stripeing at all, just some doubled up saddles. Most are very attractive pastels though, stripeing or not. If you want to paypal a 100.00 deposit I'll be giving the order of selections in the order the deposits arrived. I have many well known references if you would like them. Let us know.

[email protected] wrote:

how much is a reverse stripe male. Thanks

----------------------------------------------
This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.

Sent 02:30 PM, Feb 28th, 2003 from I.P. Address 168.73.245.57



Sincerely,
Steve Ori
Manager
A Forgotten Realm
Pet to Investment Quality animals
Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Back




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Sincerely,
Steve Ori
Manager
A Forgotten Realm
Pet to Investment Quality animals
Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Back





By this e mail I have asked for a male reverse stripe on march 1 03. What are you talking about I never asked for a male reverse stripe till the end. Why dont we end this and give me back my deposit and save your rep.

 

[HerpVenue]

Nice freakin attitude.
people are just trying to be helpful.
Then all of a sudden people are teen agers.
Well guess what? This teenager can think for himself.
I do not need to go to"big breeders" to ask them what satisfaction guaranteed means.



Here is the short and sweet.
You guys agreed on a male Reverse striped for under $500
If you produced one....He needs to fork over the money.
If you did not produce...or it is not available....YOU, need to fork over the money.


p.s a little hint. M3 does not have a reverse stripe. I do not care how many "big breeders" names you produce and flaunt. It still does not have a reverse stripe. That fact will remain a fact.

make sure you ask them what satisfaction or your money back means. Good luck to you.

Hello Drew,

Certainly you can get your money back. There are only a few that are full reverse tail stripes. Quite a few have very unique tails with a partial reverse stripe. So far you'd be the first to but a deposit down and I'm only gonna keep one of the reverse stripes and it has both forms of stripe so it would have cost quite a bit if I were to sell it. This is a genetic trait that is carried by all of these animals. Any of the siblings even if they don't show any striping themselves can throw full stripe babies. Last year there were four head to tail stripes in the litter. YOu just never know what to expect with the stripes. Thats one of the reasons I like them, that and all are unique from each other. You can keep this email as a contract. It is as legal and binding as a written contract of any type. Let me know what you want to do. I'm sending you a link to my kingsnake gallery where most of the animals I've got for sale are located. I've also got a 66% dh for snow circleback yearling for sale that isn't pictured. I'm also expecting babies of the following: albino burmese pythons, Diamond/ Jungle carpet pythons, Mexican black tail boas, Jungle boas, and normal boas siblings to the jungles (normal looking sibllings to the jungles have been known to produce junglles). Let me know. Here's the link: http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/inde...cat=500&thumb=1

Drew wrote:

If I put a deposit down and if there is no more reverse stripe can I get my money back. Thanks Drew

if you do not know what the right thing to do is....and you have to go ask your "big breeder" friends what is the right thing...... nevermind( no more comment from this teenager)

 

[HerpVenue]

OK enough. If you wish to investigate you'll find that there have been 33 posts other than Drew and myself the two involved. Out of the 33 posts 7 have posted only once, that leaves 26 posts by six individuals. They have a combined amount of posts of over three thousand posts since feb of 2002. Who that doesn't live with mamma anymore and is an adult has the time to post close to 2000 posts (which one of these people has done) in a years time? I'm sorry but if you check at this board you'll see how a teenager, who I came on this board to protect screwed me and caused me to be alittle doughtfull of all that is printed.

gee steve... I guess you did not like my comments on your animals. Because I reregistered on February 2002. and I have close to 2000 posts.

here are facts for you steve.
In your e-mails it clearly states he wants a reverse stripe male for under 500
You have two. one of them is sold and the other you refuse to give up.
The others you are trying to pawn off on him ...may have the gene but are not expressing it. Read your e-mails and your so called binding contract e-mail. Then decide what to do.

Don't be mad because this 32 year old teenager knows his rights from his wrongs and don't need to hold "big breeders" hand to figure it out.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Steve, I really don't think you're trying to rip anybody off. If the e-mails Drew posted are accurate then it is obvious that he wanted a reverse striped male from the very beginning. If you do not have a satisfactory male reverse striped boa available for the price you gave him then you really do have a moral obligation to refund his deposit. If those six breeders that you're talking about come here and post that that M3 male you have available is the best looking reverse striped boa they've ever seen and that it's definately worth the $450 dollar price will that mean that Drew is satisfied with it, which is what you have guaranteed? I think you're a good guy, I just don't think you're looking at this situation correctly.

 

[sputnik]

SUMS IT UP

Rich, I think your quote sums it up in two lines.

if you do not know what the right thing to do is....and you have to go ask your "big breeder" friends what is the right thing...... nevermind

This guy says he's been business since 1964 I think it was, yet he needs to contact big breeders to find out what the right thing to do is. Shouldn't he already know after being in business this long?

Sends a message to all possible customers doesn't it?

Message being I know what the right thing to do is, I just don't do it.

I think the damage he has done to his busniess now far out weighs the $100 deposit. Kinda stupid really.

The attitude (Immature) surfaces when it is obvious things are not going his way.

Again it comes back to "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back"

 

[HerpVenue]

Hey Drew,
You've got the first pic buddy. Call most anytime, I've just been alittle under the weather lately. All have shed for the first time and will be fed today for their first meal. I'll keep you informed.

I was wondering,
Drew has first Pic.
Drew does not have his animal yet.
But m6 which is the only Other male with a good stripe.......I wonder how it got sold?

 

[The BoidSmith]

No comment

Drew,

Thanks for posting the missing e-mails. They certainly helped.

Steve,

I'm sorry but no matter how many breeders you list in here the fact remains, M3 does not have a reverse stripe. Statements like "shows the genetics" are misleading. You are probably seeing something we don't. I have heard from only one individual that claims he can tell an hetero boa from a normal just by the looks of it.

Regards.

 

[sputnik]

"shows the genetics"

"Shows the genetics" are misleading and goes along the same line as possibly gravid that you see in so many adverts to try to get a quick sale.

 

[The BoidSmith]

I almost forgot!

I don't doubt that at least 5 out of your six references might be able to post on this thread. I'm not sure if they will all agree that M3 is a reverse stripe boa though. The sixth one has yet to post for the first time on a different thread, before posting on this one. Hope you are able to see our point.

Regards.

 

[HerpVenue]

I forgot to say something as well

There are classifieds and countless other forums to post in.
Just so you know there is more to this site than the BOI.
This is faunaclassifieds. It has a lot of other forums.
You can discuss business practices in the general business forum.
You can post jokes in the just for laughs forum.
you can post BS in the BS forum.
you can sound off in the sound off forum.
you can sell your animals in the for sale section.
you can tell people what animal you are looking for in the wanted forum.
you can post pics in the post your pictures forum
you can ask for breeding advice in the animals respective forum.
Just a little FYI to the person(s) who think only the BOI exists here.

 

[A Forgotten Realm]

Look at what he said "if there are no more reverse stripe can I get my money back"? where do you see male reverse stripe? Iv'e talked to Doug Matuszak quote " F--k these kids, I don't know anybody that pays attention to the BOI anymore. I talked to Brian Sharp Quote " don't get into a pissing match with these people who have come out of the woodwork and don't buy sell or have any animals. Basically both have told me to give back the deposit as soon as M3 sells. That is what I'm gonna do.
Sincerely,
Steve Ori
A Forgotten Realm