Bad Guy C.Cannon poor sale ethics/scam

[SJdport57]

A couple of weeks ago C.Cannon posted a comment saying he had a yellow ackie for sale. I sent him a PM inquiring on the price. He messages me back and says he's selling him for $275 shipped and that the ackie is missing some toes. I proceeded to ask him several questions about the tractability of the animal and it's lineage. He said it was "very handleable" but said he could not provide proof of lineage. He said he would send pictures the next day. I didn't mind this because the price was fair and I expressed that I was willing to buy. I asked for several detailed pictures including up close shots of the missing toes. He doesn't message me back until 8:30pm the next day, but all the message says is: "Put the ackie up for sale. Hurry and take a look, he will probably be sold in a few hours"
I look on the classifieds and see that now he is selling the ackie at $325 and mentions the monitor is "not the calmest lizard". There are pictures but none of them show any details or the missing toes. The post is updated as "SOLD" within an hour. Now, weeks later, he has reposted the animal as for sale again. This just puts up all sorts of red flags to me. He not only lied about the tractability, the price and the selling the animal but he immediately disappeared and dodged sending detailed images when asked. I would strongly discourage other buyers from dealing with Casey Cannon aka C.Cannon and his questionable (at best) sale methods.

 

[yeloowtang]

I don't know him or you, but reading and going with the info you provide at this point !!
i see no scam or bad dealings.
here's what often hapens and what i think might of went down..

more than one person was interested in the same animal and someone pulled the trigger faster than you..
the price wasn't advertised when you inquired about it and he agreed to a price that you were fine with..
it sold to someone else and the buyer may have backed out even after sending a deposit ?? and this is why it's up again.
as for the higher price, sellers wil often put a higher price and have some wiggle room for dealings, not having a price up in the first add might of got him all sorts of offers and he figured best to put a price on him this time.this way it gives people an idea of the pricing.

I agree with you about pictures and the slow comunication part, i hate it when i contact someone for something and they take for ever answering or just stop all together to find out it's sold..it happen to me a few weeks ago!! guy selling a herstat4, made him an offer, he agreed, i sked him for his paypal add.. he never got back to me
but your seller may have had many interested in the same animal..

sorry it did not work out for you, but i don't really see a scam , just bad communication on his part..and nothing lost on your end other than time and a animal you would have wanted..
the one part that does pose questions is him not sending the requested pictures..

 

[SJdport57]

You make some valid points.As some one relatively new to reptile trading/selling, I appreciate your insight. It is frustrating dealing with poor communication but it's something I'll just have to learn to deal with. I'll just have to look elsewhere for an ackie.

 

[Ed Clark]

I'll just have to look elsewhere for an ackie.

Spencer, you may have just dodged the bullet by not buying this ackie!.

 

[belleghem]

Do you have the emails and have you notified the seller of your post?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

A couple of weeks ago C.Cannon posted a comment saying he had a yellow ackie for sale. I sent him a PM inquiring on the price. He messages me back and says he's selling him for $275 shipped and that the ackie is missing some toes. I proceeded to ask him several questions about the tractability of the animal and it's lineage. He said it was "very handleable" but said he could not provide proof of lineage. He said he would send pictures the next day. I didn't mind this because the price was fair and I expressed that I was willing to buy. I asked for several detailed pictures including up close shots of the missing toes. He doesn't message me back until 8:30pm the next day, but all the message says is: "Put the ackie up for sale. Hurry and take a look, he will probably be sold in a few hours"
I look on the classifieds and see that now he is selling the ackie at $325 and mentions the monitor is "not the calmest lizard". There are pictures but none of them show any details or the missing toes. The post is updated as "SOLD" within an hour. Now, weeks later, he has reposted the animal as for sale again. This just puts up all sorts of red flags to me. He not only lied about the tractability, the price and the selling the animal but he immediately disappeared and dodged sending detailed images when asked. I would strongly discourage other buyers from dealing with Casey Cannon aka C.Cannon and his questionable (at best) sale methods.

OK, So taking a look here I see he didn't post an original ad. He made a comment on another person's ad that had sold one. He stated if you missed out on this one, I have one too. At least one other person commented back they were interested so I'm assuming probably had atleast a few contact him because you didn't respond in the thread.

You state you asked some questions and asked for pictures. You state he answered those questions such as not being able to provide lineage and said he would provide pictures the next day.

I see no agreement or confirmed sell in these comments stated from you. You are still talking about pictures and such.

You said he didn't respond back until 8:30 PM the next day like it is something wrong. He said he would provide them the next day. He probably had school, work, etc..

So he responded back with a ad that includes the pictures. He took pictures but you didn't like what they showed.

Conclusion, He was reading someone's ad and noticed theirs sold. He made impromptu post on that ad (which isn't cool to do on someone's classified) stating he had one too.

He didn't have pictures ready and had at least a few people messaging him off the back.

By the next night he put up a ad with pictures and a price. In his ad he mentions the missing toes. He wasn't hiding it or deceiving anybody there.

Your other point was he stated the lizard was "very handleable" but stated in the ad "not the calmest lizard"

Looking at the ad he stated

Never attempted to bite, but not the calmest lizard (as you can see by the movement in my pictures)

Probably just a matter of definition here. Handleable to him probably does mean doesn't bite. Running around on the ground while trying to take pictures could be a different story all together.

So unless you can show that you had a confirmed buy and he reneged, I don't think he did anything wrong.

You asked for pictures and probably others did as well. He put up a add with pictures within 24hrs of you asking and sent you a link.

Here is the link
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=491880

Oh, and I can see a missing toe in the pictures. Not the best pictures but the guy is obviously just a hobbyist and probably his first ad.

 

[C.Cannon]

Thank you to Trace for informing me about this. I don't know why the mods never emailed me about this. This thread would explain why no one will answer a pm or email from me anymore.

Look Spencer, increasing the price was a bad idea and I felt bad about it. I was following the advice of a family member who said I should bump the price up to weed out the serious buyers from the people who are just browsing. You were one of about 8 people who had pmed me about this guy and there were people who sounded much more serious than you about buying him (you were one of the first though and I pulled the $275out of the air. I got better offers. I've seen them sell for $450 in perfect condition and thought $325 for a lower quality animal from Europe was more than fair).

I took pictures of him the next day after work... about 7 pm my time. That is not late at all. I tried to get as many pictures as I could but he is a MONITOR not a bearded dragon, they don't sit still long and good pictures can be difficult. He isn't aggressive but he likes to move and crawl all over the place like any member of his species would. This makes me say he is not the calmest lizard but is very handle able (he will crawl all over your back and head).

I "sold" him to a guy two towns over for a discount because I'm new and am still uncomfortable with shipping. He was out of town, told me to meet him at a mall the next Saturday. Never heard from him again. So I texted him a few times over the next few weeks until I gave up on the deal. That is why he is back up for sale. You can't always get what you want and a sign a deal is over is someone just stops talking to you. That is how this hobby always operates ask any breeder.

I did not misrepresent my animal at all or steal money from anyone... in fact all you ever did was email me two or three times I received NOTHING from you. I just tried to sell an animal that doesn't fit in my collection anymore and you got mad because someone else got him first. You temporarily crushed my (previously nonexistent) reputation just because you didn't get your way.

The fact this is up at all is ridiculous and I hope someone takes it down soon so I can try and sell to make room for some carpet pythons


Casey Cannon

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Thank you to Trace for informing me about this. I don't know why the mods never emailed me about this.

It's always recommended that the OP let the other party know they've posted a thread but it is not the mods duty to inform on such matters.

 

[C.Cannon]

it is not the mods duty to inform on such matters.

Sorry about that. I've never been to this part of the forum before and didn't know the rules

 

[Incredible Carpets]

Casey is a good guy and doesn't deserve this BOI, IMO. I don't see what harm took place to warrant this rant by Spencer. I guess some people have too much time on their hands.....

 

[Chris Kennard]

Thank you to Trace for informing me about this. I don't know why the mods never emailed me about this. This thread would explain why no one will answer a pm or email from me anymore.

Look Spencer, increasing the price was a bad idea and I felt bad about it. I was following the advice of a family member who said I should bump the price up to weed out the serious buyers from the people who are just browsing. You were one of about 8 people who had pmed me about this guy and there were people who sounded much more serious than you about buying him (you were one of the first though and I pulled the $275out of the air. I got better offers. I've seen them sell for $450 in perfect condition and thought $325 for a lower quality animal from Europe was more than fair).

I took pictures of him the next day after work... about 7 pm my time. That is not late at all. I tried to get as many pictures as I could but he is a MONITOR not a bearded dragon, they don't sit still long and good pictures can be difficult. He isn't aggressive but he likes to move and crawl all over the place like any member of his species would. This makes me say he is not the calmest lizard but is very handle able (he will crawl all over your back and head).

I "sold" him to a guy two towns over for a discount because I'm new and am still uncomfortable with shipping. He was out of town, told me to meet him at a mall the next Saturday. Never heard from him again. So I texted him a few times over the next few weeks until I gave up on the deal. That is why he is back up for sale. You can't always get what you want and a sign a deal is over is someone just stops talking to you. That is how this hobby always operates ask any breeder.

I did not misrepresent my animal at all or steal money from anyone... in fact all you ever did was email me two or three times I received NOTHING from you. I just tried to sell an animal that doesn't fit in my collection anymore and you got mad because someone else got him first. You temporarily crushed my (previously nonexistent) reputation just because you didn't get your way.

The fact this is up at all is ridiculous and I hope someone takes it down soon so I can try and sell to make room for some carpet pythons


Casey Cannon

I'm curious as to how you determine how others seemed "much more serious" about the lizard than Spencer. Was the guy who bailed "much more serious" sounding? I don't agree with that the title of this thread should have the word "scam" in it. But I agree with Spencer's "red flag" comment.

 

[C.Cannon]

I'm curious as to how you determine how others seemed "much more serious" about the lizard than Spencer. Was the guy who bailed "much more serious" sounding? I don't agree with that the title of this thread should have the word "scam" in it. But I agree with Spencer's "red flag" comment.

The guy sent me a pm about picking him up and after talking to him for a few minutes he was asking me about making a down payment and the next day he told me I should receive the money order (tell me how to upload the texts and I will show this). He was one of about three I think that responded immediately after I put up the ad. I was a little overwhelmed with the amount of interest I had gotten on this guy (I wasn't expecting any for a lone male actually) and took what I thought was the best deal for me personally at the time. (No shipping and a sale to a local guy)

The only thing I felt like I really did wrong in this is jumping the gun and putting the ackie ups sold before I had any solid cash. If I hadn’t done that he would be sold and somewhere else and this conversation wouldn't be happening. (and admittedly hijacking someone else’s post after people kept replying to him about a sold animal... that was wrong). I got a little greedy after listening to some advice but I knew people would be willing to pay the extra $50. There was no official ad before this and I didn't change a price on someone as they were in the middle of a transaction. I would have taken $275 if no one else would pay more. I think I even added "due to huge amount of interest I will be selling him for $325 shipped". I gave a reason for the price increase (competition and supply vs. demand).


Spencer may have been one of the first to inquire and admittedly asked a lot of questions I would have asked but he never asked about payments or anything solid that I remember. (I don't remember much of the conversation so I will take back that last sentence if he shows any evidence he did). I had a lot of people asking and I think Spencer was the only one I sent an email to to tell him the Ackie was up for sale (maybe a mod can confirm that if you want an outside party's word). I wanted him to have it because I felt like he actually cared about the welfare of the ackie (asking about lineage is a good sign for this species), but I still wanted to avoid shipping if possible (so I immediately jumped on another deal with a discounted price to avoid it… which was dumb).

I deleted the original ad and most of the pms to save space in my inbox several days ago (I learned of this thread today) so if someone wants to retrieve them for me we can look over this with a fine comb. It was a month or so ago and I don't remember every detail.

Maybe it was a jerk thing to do, maybe it was a rational one for the time (it made sense to me)... I'll let you guys decide that. But whenever someone looks up my name on the forum search the first thing that pops up is this thread. That bothers me a lot.

 

[C.Cannon]

let me also explain the interest I keep talking about since the numbers I have given can cause confusion. Pre-ad I had about 8 people pming me for questions. During the ad I had about 3 giving me numbers, asking about payments and questions about availability... to me that sounds like way more interest than some guys wanting pictures.

I even had a few pms after he was listed as sold. The last time I even wrote to Spencer was when I told him the Ackie was for sale.

 

[Chris Kennard]

The guy sent me a pm about picking him up and after talking to him for a few minutes he was asking me about making a down payment and the next day he told me I should receive the money order (tell me how to upload the texts and I will show this). He was one of about three I think that responded immediately after I put up the ad. I was a little overwhelmed with the amount of interest I had gotten on this guy (I wasn't expecting any for a lone male actually) and took what I thought was the best deal for me personally at the time. (No shipping and a sale to a local guy)

The only thing I felt like I really did wrong in this is jumping the gun and putting the ackie ups sold before I had any solid cash. If I hadn’t done that he would be sold and somewhere else and this conversation wouldn't be happening. (and admittedly hijacking someone else’s post after people kept replying to him about a sold animal... that was wrong). I got a little greedy after listening to some advice but I knew people would be willing to pay the extra $50. There was no official ad before this and I didn't change a price on someone as they were in the middle of a transaction. I would have taken $275 if no one else would pay more. I think I even added "due to huge amount of interest I will be selling him for $325 shipped". I gave a reason for the price increase (competition and supply vs. demand).


Spencer may have been one of the first to inquire and admittedly asked a lot of questions I would have asked but he never asked about payments or anything solid that I remember. (I don't remember much of the conversation so I will take back that last sentence if he shows any evidence he did). I had a lot of people asking and I think Spencer was the only one I sent an email to to tell him the Ackie was up for sale (maybe a mod can confirm that if you want an outside party's word). I wanted him to have it because I felt like he actually cared about the welfare of the ackie (asking about lineage is a good sign for this species), but I still wanted to avoid shipping if possible (so I immediately jumped on another deal with a discounted price to avoid it… which was dumb).

I deleted the original ad and most of the pms to save space in my inbox several days ago (I learned of this thread today) so if someone wants to retrieve them for me we can look over this with a fine comb. It was a month or so ago and I don't remember every detail.

Maybe it was a jerk thing to do, maybe it was a rational one for the time (it made sense to me)... I'll let you guys decide that. But whenever someone looks up my name on the forum search the first thing that pops up is this thread. That bothers me a lot.

If you could share those texts, that would be great.

 

[SJdport57]

I would like to publicly apologize to Casey Cannon and everyone else involved in this issue for my foolish and impulsive actions regarding my post about him and his business. I have sent a private message to Casey and he has been nothing but courteous and professional in response, traits that I have been lacking. Rather than being a man and informing him directly of my complaint I posted a base-less mean-spirited review. I underestimated the power of the BOI and have caused major damage to his reputation. I am going to take responsibility for my actions and do everything I can to have this issue resolved. I am new to the forum and have shamed myself with my poor etiquette. I promise to be more professional and mindful of the consequences of my actions in the future.

 

[C.Cannon]

Thanks Spencer that really means a lot. I will be much more careful about keeping my prices straight for all parties official ad or not and will post better pictures in my ads to reflect what what people are asking for.

That being said can a mod change the title or take this down? I know you can't edit your own post on here so I'm assuming one of you guys can do it

 

[SJdport57]

I just sent a PM to a Mod asking him if he could change the title of at least provide me with the protocol for fixing this problem. If appropriate, I could post a second thread that is titled "good guy" explaining my mistake.

 

[C.Cannon]

No need for a good guy thread. You've never bought or sold anything from/to me so a recommendation doesn't seem necessary.

I'll do some more ads after all of this dies down and I hope we can do business in the future

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I just sent a PM to a Mod asking him if he could change the title of at least provide me with the protocol for fixing this problem. If appropriate, I could post a second thread that is titled "good guy" explaining my mistake.

I received the message.

Here are the rules for posting on the BOI.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8880

Excerpt-

YOU have to take responsibility and ownership of the words you post here. So take great care in how you craft your statements. Once you submit your message, it will be here PERMANENTLY, no matter what happens afterwards.

We can't edit the thread titles here or delete them if they don't violate the very few specific forum rules we have.

To both of you,
Anyone that takes just a minute to read this thread will understand what happen. The readers can decide what weight to give to this thread. Personally, I don't really see any damage to the target of this thread in this instance. The starter of this thread states it was impulsive to start this thread.

Both have stated their opinions and the thread starter made some retractions on his actions to start this thread. I have a faith that the readers can be objective and take the time to read this short thread and decide for themselves the merit.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Originally Posted by C.Cannon View Post
The guy sent me a pm about picking him up and after talking to him for a few minutes he was asking me about making a down payment and the next day he told me I should receive the money order (tell me how to upload the texts and I will show this

Could be just me, I see no reason why you have to upload those texts between you and someone not involved with this thread that involves no transaction. Considering, I see this thread as a non-issue.