Ed Clark
New member
The problem with that is she told her customer she would refund the money, the customer says or does something that Heidi does not like, so she goes back on her word then says she will not refund.
Not cool at all!!
-
Responding to email notices you receive.
**************************************************
In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
-
IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed
=====================
Posted 08/15/2025
=====================
Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.
Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."
Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....
=====================
Addendum: 01/10/2026
=====================
Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....
Bad Guy Calientedragons - Rankin Dragons
- Thread starter ReptileAddictions
- Start date
The problem with that is she told her customer she would refund the money, the customer says or does something that Heidi does not like, so she goes back on her word then says she will not refund.
Not cool at all!!
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
I did not use your shopping cart store, did not use my credit card there, you never directed me there. Those terms of service do not apply.
You DIDNT just list them as new bloodlines to the U.S. You DID list them as UNRELATED NEW BLOODLINES, you have NO PROOF of that, I spoke with the man who sold them to you. Try denying that?
People we sold rankins to DID get refunds, anyone who asked. Ynlike you we have a satisfaction guarantee. We want people to be happy with their purchases.
You said you would refund me, because you now dislike me you want to go back and forth on that 4 times, here in writting. Per paypals terms of service alls I have to prove to win a dispute is return delivery. And I will. The box packing will be videoed as well as the shipping drop off. Your email authorizing the return, all will be given in the dispute.
To try to insinuate that we may not have cared for the animals is digusting. We love what we do. They have been basking, given UVB, greens, veggies, dubias, and silkworms daily. They are quarantined. I have even soaked them twice, although they have a water dish. The delay in the return is the delay in YOUR response. Once you decided we could return them and get a refund it was coming to a weekend delivery, which no one who cares about animals tries to ship for weekends.
I know someone who HAS brought Rankins in from Australia. We all do, his prison time made him famous. I emailed him myself and am waiting a reply. Rumor has it there was only 1 pair of rankins ever smuggled in. I will verify that. That would mean it's IMPOSSIBLE for you to have unrelated bloodlines.
So, now you have posted a new ad with colored babies- NOT what I responded to. AND STILL- you are advertising "Imported line unrelated to any Current US LInes" after the actually seller told you there is NO WAY TO VERIFY THAT! Still not being completely honest are you????
You DIDNT just list them as new bloodlines to the U.S. You DID list them as UNRELATED NEW BLOODLINES, you have NO PROOF of that, I spoke with the man who sold them to you. Try denying that?
People we sold rankins to DID get refunds, anyone who asked. Ynlike you we have a satisfaction guarantee. We want people to be happy with their purchases.
You said you would refund me, because you now dislike me you want to go back and forth on that 4 times, here in writting. Per paypals terms of service alls I have to prove to win a dispute is return delivery. And I will. The box packing will be videoed as well as the shipping drop off. Your email authorizing the return, all will be given in the dispute.
To try to insinuate that we may not have cared for the animals is digusting. We love what we do. They have been basking, given UVB, greens, veggies, dubias, and silkworms daily. They are quarantined. I have even soaked them twice, although they have a water dish. The delay in the return is the delay in YOUR response. Once you decided we could return them and get a refund it was coming to a weekend delivery, which no one who cares about animals tries to ship for weekends.
I know someone who HAS brought Rankins in from Australia. We all do, his prison time made him famous. I emailed him myself and am waiting a reply. Rumor has it there was only 1 pair of rankins ever smuggled in. I will verify that. That would mean it's IMPOSSIBLE for you to have unrelated bloodlines.
So, now you have posted a new ad with colored babies- NOT what I responded to. AND STILL- you are advertising "Imported line unrelated to any Current US LInes" after the actually seller told you there is NO WAY TO VERIFY THAT! Still not being completely honest are you????
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
Your Drankins have been shipped back. The tracking # is in your email box. I expect a FULL refund reversal in my paypal by confirmation delivery time of 10:30 AM. Thank you.
Suncoast Herpetological
Lurking in the Shadows
Wendy, this is an interesting one. You keep stating your reasons for demanding a refund to be that the seller has NO PROOF of this and NO PROOF of that. The time to request documentation and proof was prior to completing the purchase if said proof was a condition of sale.
The same could be said by the seller. You have NO PROOF that these animals are anything but what they are purported to be. Given your rather colorful history in this industry, your word carries little weight. The sellers offer of a refund less the shipping charges is really more than fair given the unsubstantiated reason for the return.
I think you will also find that PayPal will be less than helpful in any transaction involving live animals. The seller can prove they were shipped and received safely. By PayPal's regulations, that is a successful transaction.
To the seller, if you receive the animals back and they are in the same condition you sent them out in, I would give the refund less all shipping charges. Not because i think she is entitled to it...but because you agreed to do so no matter how she behaved on the phone.
The same could be said by the seller. You have NO PROOF that these animals are anything but what they are purported to be. Given your rather colorful history in this industry, your word carries little weight. The sellers offer of a refund less the shipping charges is really more than fair given the unsubstantiated reason for the return.
I think you will also find that PayPal will be less than helpful in any transaction involving live animals. The seller can prove they were shipped and received safely. By PayPal's regulations, that is a successful transaction.
To the seller, if you receive the animals back and they are in the same condition you sent them out in, I would give the refund less all shipping charges. Not because i think she is entitled to it...but because you agreed to do so no matter how she behaved on the phone.
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
No onje was rude to her on the phone. What she is claiming is rude now is my posting here.
She gave us her word that they were as advertised, unrelated to u.s. bloodlines. I took her ad as truthful and also took her word, only later to find out from the man who sold them to her that the "unrelated" statement can not be validated.
I have provided PROOF. The photograph of the drankin blowing his beard out. Rankins do not have the cartiledge in their necks to be able to do that. Period. I also have the emails from the person she purchased from. I have made my case.
Her animals were returned and a refund still has not been recieved. Paypals terms of service also say that alls I need to do is return the product to satisfy the transaction. I did.
She gave us her word that they were as advertised, unrelated to u.s. bloodlines. I took her ad as truthful and also took her word, only later to find out from the man who sold them to her that the "unrelated" statement can not be validated.
I have provided PROOF. The photograph of the drankin blowing his beard out. Rankins do not have the cartiledge in their necks to be able to do that. Period. I also have the emails from the person she purchased from. I have made my case.
Her animals were returned and a refund still has not been recieved. Paypals terms of service also say that alls I need to do is return the product to satisfy the transaction. I did.
Suncoast Herpetological
Lurking in the Shadows
Wendy
You really should do your homework. since you did not buy the item on Ebay, this is the set of terms you were operating under with Paypal. Simply returning the item does nothing
You really should do your homework. since you did not buy the item on Ebay, this is the set of terms you were operating under with Paypal. Simply returning the item does nothing
You would be claiming that your item was SNAD. Those parts, in particular, should be of interest to you.
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
That IS the reason I returned them- The ad did not depict the truth. That will be my debate. Thank you.
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
Your package has been delivered.
Tracking ResultsTracking Number: 1Z14W5620193430573 Status: Delivered Delivered On: 07/21/2009 11:58 A.M. Location: PORCH Delivered To: WILDOMAR, CA, US Shipped/Billed On: 07/20/2009 Type: Package Service: NEXT DAY AIR Weight: 1.00 Lb
THE PORCH? You've got to be kidding me, do you care so little you could'nt open the door? You have know since FRIDAY that they were being delivered on Tuesday. Disgusting.
I did my part.
Tracking ResultsTracking Number: 1Z14W5620193430573 Status: Delivered Delivered On: 07/21/2009 11:58 A.M. Location: PORCH Delivered To: WILDOMAR, CA, US Shipped/Billed On: 07/20/2009 Type: Package Service: NEXT DAY AIR Weight: 1.00 Lb
THE PORCH? You've got to be kidding me, do you care so little you could'nt open the door? You have know since FRIDAY that they were being delivered on Tuesday. Disgusting.
I did my part.
spyder79
www.crypticdragons.com
no you did not do your part what you did was completely and utterly unprofessional and rediculous. It is ashamed that you didnt feel the need to research what you were getting until after it arrived at your home. I do not know anyone that would call themselves "informed" in this industry that does not make certain every possible question they can think of is answered prior to sending money. You are rude and a unstable customer. It is obvious from this post. Hopefully people will think twice before selling to you.
Suncoast Herpetological
Lurking in the Shadows
Do you care so little that you would send animals to someone who said not to?
You aren't coming off well here Wendy.
Suncoast Herpetological
Lurking in the Shadows
What part of that is unclear Wendy? You can only dispute with the seller. You are unable to file a claim with Paypal in this situation.
You would have done better taking their initial offer. You have now tried to strong arm them and I don't really blame them for retracting that offer.
spyder79
www.crypticdragons.com
per the paypal complaint policy you really have hurt yourself here. You do not have the ability to demand refund through paypal in this instance. Heidi will more than likely not be required by paypal to refund your money. And if she does not i will personally feel she is doing the right thing. I think the amount of harm you attempted to do to her name is deffinately worth a 400 dollar settlement
sizzlindragons
Sizzlin Dragonz
Hmmm, I think this is all a little silly.
You yourself said back in the day you bred "drankins".... that is part of the problem and partially the reason why rankins are no longer guaranteed pure in the US. The situation is a little on the ironic side.
I do not know the original op nor do I have anything against her. I do not care about what everyone says about their past. I am going by this post only.
I for one do not blame Heidi for not giving up her UK source. I would not do it either. Who knows maybe you just want the UK connection for your own use.
Who is to say that the UK line unrealted to the US line is in fact drankins? Maybe they did the same thing to there gene pool that the US has done?
The only part I can see that is not fair is offering a refund and withdrawing it after the fact.
I do however think Heidi should never have offered a refund. She did not falsely advertise and resold you the rankins that were infact from UK. Maybe the UK line has the ability to puff out there necks. Who knows?
I do not think you will get your money back from paypal. I think you might have shot yourself in the foot on that one. I would not have sent back the animals till all was settled. You might have just flushed 400 plus extra shipping.
Its to bad stuff like this is brought to the BOI.
This is just an unhappy customer with no reason to BOI someone. If you never got your shipment then I would suggest using the BOI.
You got what you wanted and paid for and you were not happy but you were not screwed. It was an honest sale that sometimes you have to deal with what you get and don't like. You were getting the animals to resell in your shop correct? I am sure you can still make your money back and learn a lesson to get more photos next time. Or well you could have made most money back if you still had the animals.
You yourself said back in the day you bred "drankins".... that is part of the problem and partially the reason why rankins are no longer guaranteed pure in the US. The situation is a little on the ironic side.
I do not know the original op nor do I have anything against her. I do not care about what everyone says about their past. I am going by this post only.
I for one do not blame Heidi for not giving up her UK source. I would not do it either. Who knows maybe you just want the UK connection for your own use.
Who is to say that the UK line unrealted to the US line is in fact drankins? Maybe they did the same thing to there gene pool that the US has done?
The only part I can see that is not fair is offering a refund and withdrawing it after the fact.
I do however think Heidi should never have offered a refund. She did not falsely advertise and resold you the rankins that were infact from UK. Maybe the UK line has the ability to puff out there necks. Who knows?
I do not think you will get your money back from paypal. I think you might have shot yourself in the foot on that one. I would not have sent back the animals till all was settled. You might have just flushed 400 plus extra shipping.
Its to bad stuff like this is brought to the BOI.
This is just an unhappy customer with no reason to BOI someone. If you never got your shipment then I would suggest using the BOI.
You got what you wanted and paid for and you were not happy but you were not screwed. It was an honest sale that sometimes you have to deal with what you get and don't like. You were getting the animals to resell in your shop correct? I am sure you can still make your money back and learn a lesson to get more photos next time. Or well you could have made most money back if you still had the animals.
Ed Clark
New member
Its beginning to sound more like Wendy is trying to use the BOI to pressure the sellers into doing what Wendy wants.
rin0425
New member
This is the craziest BOI post ive red in weeks...
that aside, I dont think that you deserve a refund. You replied to a very clear ad, got exactly what the ad was for, decided that you didnt want them after you got them (and the fact that you can tell the difference in the pictures means you didnt look that closely) then smeared the sellers name (yes, smeared...there are WAY better choices you could have made in bringing and explaining your complaint) then demanded money and shipped them back.
Did the seller ever agree to that? Did you know she was going to be home for the delivery? Sounds like you just went ahead and did it...which is YOU not caring about the animals well being, not the seller...
I have never bought from the OP or the seller and from what is written...I will never ever do business with the OP...I just picture a raving woman that says "alls" instead of "all" flying around her computer instead of trying to maintain some professionalism.
And paypal wont do a thing for you since there was a completed transaction on the original transaction, and even though you sent them back, they wont consider that part of the original transaction...
If i were the seller, id be glad to have my dragons back, and probably wouldnt send you a dime, and possibly even think about a defamation of character suit for all that the OP said.
Oh, and people who cross-species breed are just bad for the hobby. It should be about strengthening and improving the species, not cross breeding into oblivion.
Sorry to babble...I tried to just keep my mouth shut...but the way this went down is just ridiculous!!!
that aside, I dont think that you deserve a refund. You replied to a very clear ad, got exactly what the ad was for, decided that you didnt want them after you got them (and the fact that you can tell the difference in the pictures means you didnt look that closely) then smeared the sellers name (yes, smeared...there are WAY better choices you could have made in bringing and explaining your complaint) then demanded money and shipped them back.
Did the seller ever agree to that? Did you know she was going to be home for the delivery? Sounds like you just went ahead and did it...which is YOU not caring about the animals well being, not the seller...
I have never bought from the OP or the seller and from what is written...I will never ever do business with the OP...I just picture a raving woman that says "alls" instead of "all" flying around her computer instead of trying to maintain some professionalism.
And paypal wont do a thing for you since there was a completed transaction on the original transaction, and even though you sent them back, they wont consider that part of the original transaction...
If i were the seller, id be glad to have my dragons back, and probably wouldnt send you a dime, and possibly even think about a defamation of character suit for all that the OP said.
Oh, and people who cross-species breed are just bad for the hobby. It should be about strengthening and improving the species, not cross breeding into oblivion.
Sorry to babble...I tried to just keep my mouth shut...but the way this went down is just ridiculous!!!
LauraB
CLOSED ACCOUNT
Frankly, I see discrepancies/errors on both sides.
1) I'm not going to advertise and price baby dragons as Rankins/Lawson's unless I have absolute proof I can do so .. ie, written guarantee; photos of both sire and dam. If I intend to advertise and sell Rankins, I'm going to know EXACTLY what distinguishes a pure Rankins/Lawson's from a hybrid or Inland and I will be prepared to provide proof of such.
2) I'm not going to purchase a dragon/dragons advertised as a Rankins/Lawson's unless the seller will provide above proof in advance of a purchase, particularly with very young specimens. Wording of an ad or even a seller is not "proof".
This would be especially true had I been previously involved in breeding & selling dragons I'd advertised as Rankins/Lawson's, but was later informed and basicly forced to learn Bearded Dragon 101, Truth in Advertising. I'd know what to look for and what to ask beforehand.
3) If I offer a refund, I really should not later reneg ... take it or leave it.
4) If I am offered a refund, I will try to negotiate if not happy with the offer ... if I can't negotiate, I ABSOLUTELY will not just ship animals back . As I stated in a different thread, someone who ships without first confirming the shipment and availability of the recipient to receive LIVE animals is someone who (IMO) should be avoided.
The welfare of animals ALWAYS should come first. Stupid human egos, arrogance (and ignorance) are what kill helpless animals. Period.
1) I'm not going to advertise and price baby dragons as Rankins/Lawson's unless I have absolute proof I can do so .. ie, written guarantee; photos of both sire and dam. If I intend to advertise and sell Rankins, I'm going to know EXACTLY what distinguishes a pure Rankins/Lawson's from a hybrid or Inland and I will be prepared to provide proof of such.
2) I'm not going to purchase a dragon/dragons advertised as a Rankins/Lawson's unless the seller will provide above proof in advance of a purchase, particularly with very young specimens. Wording of an ad or even a seller is not "proof".
This would be especially true had I been previously involved in breeding & selling dragons I'd advertised as Rankins/Lawson's, but was later informed and basicly forced to learn Bearded Dragon 101, Truth in Advertising. I'd know what to look for and what to ask beforehand.
3) If I offer a refund, I really should not later reneg ... take it or leave it.
4) If I am offered a refund, I will try to negotiate if not happy with the offer ... if I can't negotiate, I ABSOLUTELY will not just ship animals back . As I stated in a different thread, someone who ships without first confirming the shipment and availability of the recipient to receive LIVE animals is someone who (IMO) should be avoided.
The welfare of animals ALWAYS should come first. Stupid human egos, arrogance (and ignorance) are what kill helpless animals. Period.
spyder79
www.crypticdragons.com
Its beginning to sound more like Wendy is trying to use the BOI to pressure the sellers into doing what Wendy wants.
In my opinion that is all this has been the entire time. It was a witch hunt by a customer that didnt do their homewirk before purchase. I guess the op thought no one would see that she was being the aggressor in this situation. The op has merely tried to drag Heidi's name through the mud. I do not think she expected people to read the story in its entirety and see that it was not Heidi thats in the wrong on this deal.
And to the op anyopne who mails a animal out without making certain the person its being mailed to is going to be home to receive the animal is irresponsible and uncaring. People like that have no place in this hobby.
TripleMoonsExotic
New member
I guess I'm not understanding why she isn't entitled to a refund?
Were the dragons in fact not Rankins? If they were hybrids, the ad should state they are hybrids...If it didn't, that's false advertising. No different then me selling a Rootbeer (Emoryi Cornsnake hybrid) as a Normal Cornsnake.
Disregarding Wendy having experience with Rankins...Buyers rely on the sellers to provide all the information on what they are selling...It's their responsibility to disclose exactly what they are selling. Saying "I didn't know" or "I was told something else" isn't good enough either.
Shipping without confirmation is definitely a no-no. That too was illresponsible.
Were the dragons in fact not Rankins? If they were hybrids, the ad should state they are hybrids...If it didn't, that's false advertising. No different then me selling a Rootbeer (Emoryi Cornsnake hybrid) as a Normal Cornsnake.
Disregarding Wendy having experience with Rankins...Buyers rely on the sellers to provide all the information on what they are selling...It's their responsibility to disclose exactly what they are selling. Saying "I didn't know" or "I was told something else" isn't good enough either.
Shipping without confirmation is definitely a no-no. That too was illresponsible.
Wolfy-hound
New member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2006
- Messages
- 1,610
- Reaction score
- 191
- Points
- 0
- Age
- 55
- Location
- Keystone Heights, Florida
I agree. If the dragons were supposed to be Rankins.. then they should be. They were advertised as Rankins.. not as "maybe rankins" or "drankins" or "possibly pure". When they arrive, they darned well should be what they were advertised as!
I don't agree with her harping on the "can't prove it's unrelated" as opposed to "new bloodline". If you want to go back far enough... I guess all dragons are related as they all came from the first to be created, or evolve. A seperate bloodline that is generations removed should count.. I would think.
Shipping without conformation is a HUGE no-no, and I totally would fault her for that, and not deal with someone that puts animals at risk becuase they are throwing a tantrum that things aren't going their way. Even if she is entitled to a refund, killing the animals is petty and childish, and not the mark of anyone that people should deal with.
Having said all this.. I don't keep beardies, and don't intend to. So I'm going off information in this thread, not anything previous that may or may not have happened or been said.
I don't agree with her harping on the "can't prove it's unrelated" as opposed to "new bloodline". If you want to go back far enough... I guess all dragons are related as they all came from the first to be created, or evolve. A seperate bloodline that is generations removed should count.. I would think.
Shipping without conformation is a HUGE no-no, and I totally would fault her for that, and not deal with someone that puts animals at risk becuase they are throwing a tantrum that things aren't going their way. Even if she is entitled to a refund, killing the animals is petty and childish, and not the mark of anyone that people should deal with.
Having said all this.. I don't keep beardies, and don't intend to. So I'm going off information in this thread, not anything previous that may or may not have happened or been said.
Zack319
New member
What is Wendy supposed to do with the Dragons after Calientedragons refused to refund her?
Is she supposed to ask when they would want the Dragons back, even though Calientedragons clearly doesn't want them back. It just seems careless on both sides part.
The problem is the Rankins aren't pure, as they were sold.
Its Calientedragon's responsibility to make sure there ad's are correct.
And it's there responsibility to offer a full refund
Is she supposed to ask when they would want the Dragons back, even though Calientedragons clearly doesn't want them back. It just seems careless on both sides part.
The problem is the Rankins aren't pure, as they were sold.
Its Calientedragon's responsibility to make sure there ad's are correct.
And it's there responsibility to offer a full refund