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Bad Guy Calientedragons - Rankin Dragons

Here's my 0.02 cents for what it's worth. While the buyer may have been rude and way out of line the seller offered a refund initially. She should not have the right to change her mind on a refund simply because a buyer caught an attitude. Here was the original offer of a refund:

I am very sorry if indeed he is not pure, I had no intention or knowledge of that... If you would like to send him back I will refund your money...
How is the little girl doing? Don’t worry about her, I know for sure she is pure..
Click to expand...

Then 3 hours later she changes her mind:

After further inspection of all the Rankins here, they all have a little a beard or Jowles, even the ones I have had for years... I cant possibly believe that they are all hybrids..
If you were so sure of what to look for then why wouldn’t you ask for pictures? I am sorry I will have to take back my offer to take them back, My husband pointed out that we do not need to take that risk, when we were not dis-honest in any way...
If they do have some pogona passed in from 3-4 generations there is no way for you to possibly know that so how could you accuse!
I am sorry but you got what was advertised, and in no way did I miss-lead you..
Click to expand...

IMO and I am not a reptile breeder but I do breed TICA registered cats that is VERY poor business practice.

Not to mention it seems she certainly posted the ad with very misleading text.

Rankin's Dragon AKA Lawsons Dragons! Out Of New Imported Lines! - Imported line unrelated to any Current US LInes~$200 each + Shipping"
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Yet she has NO paperwork or proof that they are either pure rankins or unrelated.

While I am in agreement that the buyer really sucked in this instance I still believe 100% that she is entitled to a refund minus shipping costs(only because that's the cost of buying on the internet) and if the seller does not refund she is basically stealing.

Again JMO.

Seanna McCarthy
 
I NEVER REFUSED her offer of a refund minus shipping. That is the terms she agreed to and I said they will be returned on Monday.

I posted here that I thought the minus shipping wasnt fair- thats all.. But, I NEVER REFUSED. She is the one that has backpeddled on her refund offer.

Heidi, you said you would refund me TWICE IN WRITTING posted here for all to see, refund my money. Thats the only right thing to do.

When I posted my questions on the beardie forums I NEVER posted who the seller of the Drankins where. I was simply collecting information. To say I was all over ruining her reputation is absurd. I NEVER menytioned her name. She is the one who posted on there and outed herself.


I dont get buyers remorse. I just spent $1000 on Rankins. That are actually Rankins and I am perfectly content with. I could care less how much $ I spend, as long as I get what I pay for.

We sell Crimson Red and Hypo Pastel Dragons at the shop for $75. I had a male rankin related to the female I have, we sold in the shop back in December for $100. No one is going to buy a "Drankin" for $200 just to help me recoop my $. Thats rediculous.
 
Again I will say, she was VERY convincing that she got these HERSELF from the UK and knew they were unrelated to any US bloodlines. I did run her name on here and came up with no bad feedback. I had no reason to pre assume she wasnt being honest. The norm isnt to ask for pictures of necks ect in anything. How often do you order a Crested Gecko and get a Gargoyle X Crested.
? Never. It just doesnt usually happen. I had no reason to question her. They appear to be rankins until they gape at you. What are the odds she would have caught a gapping picture?

What is wrong is she has admitted she does not know their history, she herself did not get them directly from the UK, she has no parent pics, doesnt know who breed them, and is STILL listing them as unrelated to us bloodlines. :(

They have been returned as promised, I have never wavered on our deal, have never been rude personally, business is business. I deserve not to be ripped off.
 
I do agree that you should have your money refunded to you Wendy. You did send them back. After reading this whole thing a little closer I am stuck on the fence, I think Hiedi should do some resaerch on her dragons since they are not supposed to be pagona vitticeps crossed with Pogona brevis. If she does not know the history then she needs to find out who and where they came from.
 
Let me see if I understand this correctly. While in my posession it was accpetable for me to resell the animals at my store to recoop my money, but now in her posession they are somehow unfit for resale? Better left to charity? Give me a break.
 
I think you are missing the point of that statement

My interpretation is that she is not looking to make money on them twice and will be auctioning them off with the proceeds going to charity
 
The seller may have gone back on the refund after the buyer refused the refund (and yes, saying I dont want the refund minus shipping, i want the shipping refunded is refusing the offer) the seller said not to send the dragons. The buyer still sent them (and just telling her they are coming is not agreeing to a return) and now expects a refund? these dragons have been sent by mail 3 times from what I gather in just a few weeks. What is the seller supposed to do with them if she said no refuns, and I dont want them, and they showed up anyway?
In my opinion the buyer left herself with nothing. The seller shouldnt have to be smacked around and still have to give back money. How is that fair. Shes been forced into a corner by a woman who didnt ask the right questions before hand and flew off the handle when she got exactly what was pictured in the ad.
A supposed Rankins expert should know exactly what to look for, and what questions to ask. There is no excuse for just trusting someone you dont know then being mad that they didnt live up to your expectations. Even people I have heard good things about get asked all the questions I can think of. Thats just smart buying. A seller cant be blamed for an irrational buyer who doesnt do their homework and does whatever she wants. If thats the case, im just gonna buy every dragon I see and if they arnt perfect in person, im just gonna send them back and expect my money. Hell, Ill start doing that with everything on the internet, since wendy seems to think thats the way it works. Maybe Wendy should have taken a deep breath, calmed down and composed herself, instead of becoming an emotional mess. Im 24 and I would never handle a situation like this. These are businesses, not games. Act like it people!!!
Im just babbling...sorry for the long fairly meaningless post.
 
rin0425 said:
The seller may have gone back on the refund after the buyer refused the refund (and yes, saying I dont want the refund minus shipping, i want the shipping refunded is refusing the offer) the seller said not to send the dragons. The buyer still sent them (and just telling her they are coming is not agreeing to a return) and now expects a refund? these dragons have been sent by mail 3 times from what I gather in just a few weeks. What is the seller supposed to do with them if she said no refuns, and I dont want them, and they showed up anyway?
In my opinion the buyer left herself with nothing. The seller shouldnt have to be smacked around and still have to give back money. How is that fair. Shes been forced into a corner by a woman who didnt ask the right questions before hand and flew off the handle when she got exactly what was pictured in the ad.
A supposed Rankins expert should know exactly what to look for, and what questions to ask. There is no excuse for just trusting someone you dont know then being mad that they didnt live up to your expectations. Even people I have heard good things about get asked all the questions I can think of. Thats just smart buying. A seller cant be blamed for an irrational buyer who doesnt do their homework and does whatever she wants. If thats the case, im just gonna buy every dragon I see and if they arnt perfect in person, im just gonna send them back and expect my money. Hell, Ill start doing that with everything on the internet, since wendy seems to think thats the way it works. Maybe Wendy should have taken a deep breath, calmed down and composed herself, instead of becoming an emotional mess. Im 24 and I would never handle a situation like this. These are businesses, not games. Act like it people!!!
Im just babbling...sorry for the long fairly meaningless post.
Click to expand...

Definitely not to long nor meaningless. it is the exact truth to this situation. Wendy is out and she should be as she is the only person that did anything wrong. I am 25 so we are in the same "generation" lol and i could not imagine ever acting like this over any deal. Wendy as you said should know more than enough about rankins since she considers herself to be such an "informed expert" of them. I think heidi is doing exactly what should be done. For all any of us know with the amount of stress from shipping these poor animals went through they could very well be stressed to the point of illness. I think that wendy is the only person in the wrong in this situation.
 
The seller may have gone back on the refund after the buyer refused the refund (and yes, saying I dont want the refund minus shipping, i want the shipping refunded is refusing the offer) the seller said not to send the dragons. The buyer still sent them (and just telling her they are coming is not agreeing to a return) and now expects a refund? these dragons have been sent by mail 3 times from what I gather in just a few weeks. What is the seller supposed to do with them if she said no refuns, and I dont want them, and they showed up anyway?
In my opinion the buyer left herself with nothing. The seller shouldnt have to be smacked around and still have to give back money. How is that fair. Shes been forced into a corner by a woman who didnt ask the right questions before hand and flew off the handle when she got exactly what was pictured in the ad.
A supposed Rankins expert should know exactly what to look for, and what questions to ask. There is no excuse for just trusting someone you dont know then being mad that they didnt live up to your expectations. Even people I have heard good things about get asked all the questions I can think of. Thats just smart buying. A seller cant be blamed for an irrational buyer who doesnt do their homework and does whatever she wants. If thats the case, im just gonna buy every dragon I see and if they arnt perfect in person, im just gonna send them back and expect my money. Hell, Ill start doing that with everything on the internet, since wendy seems to think thats the way it works. Maybe Wendy should have taken a deep breath, calmed down and composed herself, instead of becoming an emotional mess. Im 24 and I would never handle a situation like this. These are businesses, not games. Act like it people!!!
Im just babbling...sorry for the long fairly meaningless post.
Click to expand...

While I understand and respect your opinion, from a professional and business standpoint the seller is making a big mistake. As a business owner there is no room from personal feelings in a transaction. She agreed to take them back, therefore she should.

If a customer were to go to TICA and tell them that I offered a refund, received the kitten back, and then decided to not refund I would likely be suspended. All the customer would need as proof would be that one email where I agreed to give them their money back. They wouldn't care what I said in the next email or ten emails after that. Granted this isn't TICA and we're certainly not talking about cats but we are talking about selling animals. It's a business and should always be handled professionally.

Again JMO. :)
 
A seller cant be blamed for an irrational buyer who doesnt do their homework and does whatever she wants. If thats the case, im just gonna buy every dragon I see and if they arnt perfect in person, im just gonna send them back and expect my money. Hell, Ill start doing that with everything on the internet, since wendy seems to think thats the way it works. Maybe Wendy should have taken a deep breath, calmed down and composed herself, instead of becoming an emotional mess. Im 24 and I would never handle a situation like this. These are businesses, not games. Act like it people!!!
Click to expand...

But at the same time shouldn't the seller be held to her word? She advertised Rankins that were a brand new unrelated bloodline and as far as I have seen has no proof. That alone should be grounds for a return.
 
Iguanachic said:
But at the same time shouldn't the seller be held to her word? She advertised Rankins that were a brand new unrelated bloodline and as far as I have seen has no proof. That alone should be grounds for a return.
Click to expand...

And if Wendy wouldn't have waited until after receiving them to decide that she wanted all of the extra proof, above and beyond the seller's word, this wouldn't have even been a problem in the first place. Along with the fact that most sellers will renege on an agreement of return/refund if the buyer becomes irrational as to the details as Wendy has a tendency to do and has shown many many times before.
Wendy said no to a refund minus shipping, therefore the return should have never taken place until a different agreement could be made.
 
nd if Wendy wouldn't have waited until after receiving them to decide that she wanted all of the extra proof, above and beyond the seller's word, this wouldn't have even been a problem in the first place.
Click to expand...

Respectfully I disagree. Just because a buyer doesn't ask doesn't mean a seller has the right to deceive. Without proof of their "unrelated lines" the dragons should have never been listed as such right from the beginning. The problem started with a seller falsely advertising animals.

But I do still agree that she seems an awful buyer and I would be tempted to tell her to cram her refund as well but in the end my business and my reputation would mean more to me that $400.00. If I truly advertised the animals incorrectly I would want to fix the situation no matter how much of an arse the buyer was.
 
But there is not proof that the animals were advertised incorrectly from what i have read heidi got these from a very reputable breeder in the business that has refused (and understandably so) to give up his UK connection. In this case it is just wendy trying to make waves for people. I would wager she is trying to just make heidi look bad for future business reasons as wendy is planning to be a breeder of rankins again and it would be a leg up if she took heidi out of the game. Wendy is irrational and heavy handed. She does not deserve her money back in the least.
 
If every business refused to offer a refund for returned products because of an irate customer, I imagine a lot would be seeing the inside of a court room. I'm sure their are legal ramifications for a business not returning money when a product is returned in the same condition as it was received. Their is always small claims court and the option that, if Wendy paid with a credit card through PayPal, simply contacting the company and getting it reversed.

Ethically, I think it's wrong to keep both the animals and the money. Professionally, it's stupid to risk your reputation over any amount of money. I personally would not deal with someone that operates their business in that manner. I think Heidi would be better off refunding the payment (minus shipping) and going on her way.
 
calientedragons said:
I told you NOT TO SEND THEM BACK BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT GET A REFUND! What was not clear about that?

And yes the RANKIN'S are here safe and after the 30 day quarantine I will put them up for a charity auction..

Heidi :)
Click to expand...

Heidi you have received the dragons back in good condition.

The logical thing to do is to refund the cost of the dragons less shipping charges.

You need to be a little flexible to end this. :)
 
Iguanachic said:
But at the same time shouldn't the seller be held to her word? She advertised Rankins that were a brand new unrelated bloodline and as far as I have seen has no proof. That alone should be grounds for a return.
Click to expand...


I may be missing something but why are we assuming these are not from the UK because they seem to be beardie crosses that are currently overwhelming the US. How do we know that the UK does not have the same cross problem over there.
From what I can tell she stated that these were UK bloodline not related to the US has anyone proven differently.
Or did she say Pure Rankins somewhere.
So is it possible to get UK bloodline rankins and still be cross with beardies.
And in that case isn't it advertised correctly.
 
This whole thing borders on ludicrous at both ends.

Wendy, as a Rankins "expert", next time do what an "expert" would do ... a little better checking into what exactly you are buying. No one buys something as unusual as a pure Rankins without solid research into the animals beforehand.

Heidi, you initially offered a refund; you received them back in good condition. You admitted in your email that if they are not pure Rankins then you were unaware and didn't intend to misrepresent them; that they were represented as pure Rankins to you.
Then you backpeddled. They either are or they aren't, and we've seen no proof that they actually are (or are not, for that matter, but it's beside the point now that they've been returned.)

Refund the $400.00 and save your rep.

Good grief, it ain't rocket science.
 
I completely agree that a refund minus shipping should be in order. As a seller, once you offer a solution, I don't think it's good practice to take it back. I think there was a term that the conservative right used about this, flipflopper? She got the animals back, and assuming that they are still in good condition, just refund the sale price. Everyone gets to start over, done deal.

Now, I'm not saying that Wendy isn't being a little ridiculous, but I do see a problem with the original advertising for these animals. Imagine if someone came forward with a new line of locality boas. Imagine if said person advertised them as "a new UK line completely unrelated to anything in the US", and it was also purported to be a pure line. Wouldn't a seller get massacred over these claims if they didn't have documentation regarding their origins? The seller's only "proof" regarding the animals whereabouts was someone mentioning a "UK source" that they refused to give up. I'm sorry, but there need to be higher standards in regards to backing up a claim like that. Yes, Wendy should have done her research BEFORE getting the animals, but she also appears to be the ONLY one doing any research into the animals origins.

If I were selling rare animals and was claiming them to be sure, I wouldn't risk my reputation making claims that can't be backed up with documentation.
 
Man I hate having to write what I am about to write. Parts of it anyway.

Pure rankins are a rarity. They're extremely uncommon and as a result have a much higher value than the far more common indistinct crosses that compose the majority of the captive stock outside of Australia. The overwhelming majority of them are either obvious mutts or, at the very best, suspicious unknowns.

If anyone is going to advertise and sell pure rankins, they better damn well know for an absolute fact that the label applies. They better be able to prove it with direct documentation of the lineage back to exportation from Australia (or smuggling, as is more common unfortunately).

The mutts are so much more common that the casual "rankins" can still be applied. A lot like most "Colombian Boas" they're mostly suspect but people have fallen out of the habit of being explicit in the doubts that surround their lineage. When someone says "Pure" or "Proven" though, then they're opening themselves up to the responsibility of ensuring the accuracy of that label. "Looks like" and "Probably" and "Mostly, but I'm not sure" doesn't cut it. Sell an animal as a pure rankins and can't prove it was a pure rankins... you're a thief who has misled your buyers.

Wendy's chock full of crap about most the rest of it though. She can't tell a pure rankins from a crossed rankins based on the beard. She might think she can- but she's wrong and stupid for doing so. Surprise surprise, she's talking out her ass. Nothing new there though, Wendy is pretty much the definition of ignorant lying trash. She'll say any damn thing that pops into her thick skull if she thinks it'll get her whatever she's after.

Sending the animals back after being told not to? That is some of the most flagrant neglectful behavior I have ever seen. She endangered those dragons- one can only assume it's because she doesn't give a damn what happened to them. Since she stopped working on her knees and back, she seems to be a lot more willing to lie and steal for cash. Chances are she just decided she wanted her money back and decided to pitch a fit to get it.

Heidi... stop selling animals as being something you can't prove they are. It's dishonest and it's theft.

Wendy... get a new hobby, you scum sucking criminal. The reptile doesn't need garbage like you stinking up the place.
 
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