Bad Guy Calientedragons - Rankin Dragons

[aleria]

This one gets more and more interesting.

To start, I am of the popular opinion that a refund less shipping is due, but for only one reason. The sellers offered it. If they had not, I would be looking at this as a simple case of buyer’s remorse.

A number of you have stated that the seller’s original ad was dishonest. In order for the ad to be dishonest, the sellers would have had to intended to be deceptive. This statement was based on two points in the ad.

1. The statement “unrelated to US bloodlines”

To the best of their knowledge…this was a true statement. The animals were imported from Europe. The line originated there. As someone pointed out, without DNA testing on every dragon in captivity it is impossible to prove this absolutely. However, given the origin it is both a reasonable assumption and assertion. Wendy’s statement that all Rankin’s everywhere in captivity are descended from one female is not only ridiculous, it is impossible to prove. Import laws country to country vary widely. Anyone who thinks that only one female Rankin’s has ever left Australia raise your hand!!
2. Wendy’s assumption that the animals are not pure Rankin’s

This is based on the whole vestigial jowl observation. I have not heard anyone other than her state that this is an absolute and positive method of identifying a hybrid…..just Wendy. If I were as familiar with the species as Wendy and Jean claim to be, and this was a definitive point in verifying the animals to be what she wanted, wouldn’t a reasonable person have asked for a side shot of the animals? Especially with a seller she had never dealt with before? At the very least she would have asked if they had jowls. She did not.

I can’t “prove” beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Sinaloans I breed were not crossed in the wild with Nelson’s 8 generations ago. I can’t “prove’ that my Cornsnake stock does not contain a trace of Obsoleta blood. However if someone asked me if they were pure, my logical answer would be yes.


The “Betty is deserving of a refund” issue is very true but a little skewed.. I agree that she is due the money she fronted….from Wendy and Jean. If they are predicating her being repaid on whether or not Caliente refunds them, then that is their bad. Caliente had a transaction with Jean / Wendy. Betty was simply unlucky enough to agree to provide the funding. I hope she gets her money back but Caliente owes her nothing directly.


The whole “they have both the money and the dragons” argument is skewed as well. Wendy was told in no uncertain terms NOT to send the animals back as she would not be refunded. The seller has TOS in place that backs this up whether Wendy saw them or, as any experienced internet buyer would do, bothered to ask what they were. Her sending the animals back anyways was nothing but a ploy to attempt to force a refund. As an experienced seller, If that were to happen to me, I would not allow a buyer to bully me into a refund if I had already decided they were not entitled to one. Wendy was in the wrong there…not the sellers.


To sum up…would I have refunded them if I were the seller based on their initial complaint? Probably. But that is me. Every seller reacts differently. I have refunded numerous times over the years in situations that I did not think the seller was entitled to one. I look at is as good will and the cost of doing business. Was Wendy entitled to one here? I don’t think so. However, the seller offered one without stipulations so they should honor that statement. That is their only real screw up in this transaction.

If they had not made that statement, they were well within their rights to tell her to pound sand. It wouldn’t have been a good customer relations move but they would have been on firm business ground based on TOS.

Fully agreed

 

[spyder79]

what exactkly was thepoint of posting aphoto of me ad my wife on here. is it supposed to be threatening? all it did islet me know beyond ashadow of a doubt u have issues as not only did you look me up on myspace but u then stole a photo from my page savedit to a account u own nd then posted it on here. i have reported this as i feel that is direct harassment towards myself andmy wife,

 

[ReptileAddictions]

Suncoastal- Heidi NEVER told me not to send the dragons. Not here, not via email, not via phone. NEVER.

I had no reason to believe Heidi was selling hybrids, didnt even suspect it. Her phone conversation was about the imported bloodlines, and her answers were convincing.

Brian. I did not steal anything, I did not save anything. That photo is linked directly from here to your myspace. A place of free information that you put on there.

I am certainly not threatning you. Your letting your imagination run wild.

I find it interesting that you are in the military and seem to have time to post all day and night, every day. That shows me that you are surfing the net while you are at work.I dont think your sargent, or the taxpayers would approve.- It just shows what type of person you are. That is all.

 

[ReptileAddictions]

Email from Garys latest attempt:

Wendy, I spoke to Gary yesterday. At this point in time your issues with each other do NOT rise to any type of criminal behavior.

Subsequently, neither myself or any of my detectives have any interest in becoming involved in this dispute.

I wish you success in resolving your differences.

Thanks
Dan

Sgt. XXX XXXX
Spokane Police Department Investigations
Property Crimes/ Domestic Violence

Gary, you are wasting your time too. I havn't done ANYTHING illegal. Everyone keeps telling you that I am within my rights to attempt to get my refund, like any consumer would do!

 

[ReptileAddictions]

Harrassing? Oh please, now I know you are Garys friend.

Funny that ya'll can take 1000 jabs at me, and I just take them. But 1 little look into either of you or gary's life and ya'll are dialing 911. Please, you two have the thinnest skin. You should be able to take a few jabs if you intend to be on the BOI.

 

[jglass38]

I find it interesting that you are in the military and seem to have time to post all day and night, every day. That shows me that you are surfing the net while you are at work.I dont think your sargent, or the taxpayers would approve.- It just shows what type of person you are. That is all.

Wendy,

With your history of porn, racism and bad transactions you have lost any right to comment on "what type of person" anybody is.

 

[rosebud945]

Suncoastal- Heidi NEVER told me not to send the dragons. Not here, not via email, not via phone. NEVER.

Umm, YES SHE DID! It is very clearly stated in post #4 of this thread!

 

[KelliH]

You guys! WGAS if Wendy was a porn actress? I can understand bringing up the racist stuff but the fact that she was in porn? Stop being so hypocritical, it's not like you've never looked at an adult film.

The fact remains that she was not happy with the animals she bought and deserves a refund. IMO Caliente Dragons are people whose words mean nothing and cannot be trusted. They are the bad guys in this deal, not Wendy.

 

[KelliH]

Umm, YES SHE DID! It is very clearly stated in post #4 of this thread!

She also stated this in an email to Wendy-

To: "Jeane Best" <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, July 18, 2009, 10:22 PM
Iwill refund you money minus my shipping cost.. You never asked where I imported them, They were imported through Josh of Phantom Dragon and his connections..
Please disclose where you posted on the boards so I can read them..

Thanks,
Heidi

Then I guess her feelings got hurt after she read this thread and she changed her mind. Not cool, not honest, not ethical.

 

[C.J. Vogler]

She was in porn? She is a racist? She is owed $400? Well only one of those needs an answer and I think anyone not being a moron can figure that out. It's so stupid to set at your computer and belittle someone cause they did/do something you can't/won't. BAD CALIENTE......BAD. SHAME ON YOU!

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Suncoastal- Heidi NEVER told me not to send the dragons. Not here, not via email, not via phone. NEVER.

Here is an Email that you posted the day before you shipped the dragons back

EMAIL I JUST RECIEVED.

On Sun, 7/19/09, www.calientedragons.com <[email protected]> wrote:


From: www.calientedragons.com <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: Rankin\\\\\\\'s Dragon AKA Lawsons Dragons!
To: "Jeane Best" <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 9:46 AM


Don’t bother sending them back, you will NOT get a refund!

Heidi

Having a little trouble keeping you story straight Wendy?

 

[ReptileAddictions]

Suncoastal- Let me reword what I am trying to say. You are twisting what I mean. I have been accused of shipping them unsafely. Heidi never said she wouldnt "accept" them, or wouldn't be home. She was notified 3 times that they were on their way.

I wasnt trying to say that she didnt claim she wouldnt refund me. She has reniged and made that claim repetedly.

I simply followed through with our agreement.

 

[aleria]

I would think saying "Don’t bother sending them back" would mean exactly that, do not send them back.

 

[ReptileAddictions]

i do not carewhat you say or think about me or my ideas but posting a photo of me and my wife that you stole from my myspace page is wrong and you know it. i ask that you remove the photo as it is wrong and you know it. no oneon here has posted photos of you which i am sure could easily be locatedon thenet nor should anyone. you made it far to personal and i do not appreciate it. i have reported it to the site adhopefully either you or the site will remove the photo.
__________________
Brian
Cryptic Dragons
www.crypticdragons.com

Brian- I am not replying to you privatly, since you havn't figured that out.

The link to your myspace is a direct link from here. BOI posts can not be altered by me.

My photos, links, all kinds of things have already been posted on here. My PERSONAL life is fair game if it is public record. Amazing how only you and Gary don't feel the same.

I just want to point out that you and gary arnt the squares you attempt to portray. Just because you think all your wrong doings are hidden from public eyes.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Let's see

Suncoastal- Heidi NEVER told me not to send the dragons. Not here, not via email, not via phone. NEVER.

and

Don’t bother sending them back, you will NOT get a refund!

Not a whole lot of twisting that can be done to two diametrically opposed statements like that Wendy.

i have already stated that since they offerred the refund minus all shipping they should honor it.

That said, I find absolutely no merit in any other facet of your side of things.

Were it not for that one statement by them i don't think you would have any support here at all.

 

[capt._howdy]

EMAIL I JUST RECIEVED.



From: www.calientedragons.com <[email protected]>



Don’t bother sending them back, you will NOT get a refund!

Heidi

i think that says no to sending them back wendy and thats from one of your post. sorry!!!!!!!!!

 

[ReptileAddictions]

We all seem to have a differnt interpitation. She never said she would'nt accept them, refuse them, or return them.

Thats what I get out of it.

 

[rosebud945]

We all seem to have a differnt interpitation. She never said she would'nt accept them, refuse them, or return them.

Thats what I get out of it.

It is this kind of twisting of facts that makes me trust you less and less. Of course she had to accept them when they arrived. What human being that has any concern for animals at all wouldn't. That does not mean that she agreed to a refund, and it was still a very underhanded attempt to force the issue, as John pointed out.

Caliente owes Betty a refund because a refund was initially offered, but you cannot rewrite your behavior here, Wendy.

 

[jglass38]

We all seem to have a differnt interpitation. She never said she would'nt accept them, refuse them, or return them.

Thats what I get out of it.

Or your interpretation is meant to suit your agenda.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Let's make it even easier

Heidi NEVER told me not to send the dragons.

and

Don’t bother sending them back

Not much room for interpretation Wendy. Wiggle all you want...you have been caught in a blatant lie