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Can people really change?

Lucille

Lucille

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I have friends that go back more than 30 years. They are older now, and a bit wiser perhaps, but otherwise pretty much the same people they were years and decades ago when I first met them.

Sometimes, people attempt to change who and what they are.

Every once in a while, those put in prison choose to try to travel the right road from then on and become law abiding citizens.
Sometimes people who have relationship problems, who are on the verge of divorce, vow they will try anew so that the relationship will succeed.
People 'get religion' and devote their lives to following the precepts of that religion.
Sometimes, because of a major life event such as a birth of a child, people who never tried very hard before get the incentive to go forth and really make something of themselves.

Does this last? In your opinion, are we what we are born to be, or can we make fundamental and lasting changes to who we really are?
 
IMHO, We can do what it takes to change "But You have to want to do it" But From what I have seen lately, some people don't want to change.
 
Anything is possible.

However, deep seated phychosis and flat out mental instability, those are common too, and I do not hold out much hope for change from those who suffer from them.

It is also hard to change and many, harumph, are simply too weak to do so.

And then there's that word "friend" which has so very many connotations and definitions, many apparently held by one side of the 'friendship' and totally unknown to the other, which makes me even more reticent in regards to it, the word anyway.

I suppose anyone could, but just because they are curious about it does not have any bearing on whether or not they can and/or will.
 
For myself...change has come slowly and gradually over time. One of my biggest life changing events was getting clean and sober. In the early days of my recovery, I practiced old behaviors because they were safe to me and I knew how to operate under a certain set of circumstances, an unwritten code of Honor among thieves so to speak. I was in survival mode, however, survival and growth are two different things.

The line between want and need became blurred....and need took over. Though the path of least resistance is very easy to stay in, the same old thing, was no longer acceptable and when I was challenged, the changes began.

What I have learned is that change needs to be a priority. When the pain of staying becomes stronger than the pain of going and growing, then and only then can changes take place.
 
Of course it happens. But as to all the possible outside catalysts, ie newborn, marriage "recommitment", prison, and other assorted tragedies, I think the life changing event is usually a look in the mirror and finally being sick of what is seen.

Agreed Wes ..."curiosity" ain't much of a player.
 
In your opinion, are we what we are born to be, or can we make fundamental and lasting changes to who we really are?
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People choose their actions every day. So, if you believe who people really "are" is based on their actions, then yes, they can change. However, I think actions are simply a "marker" of one's true motivations, and tend to believe that people can more honestly be "defined", if you will, by their intentions than their actions.
 
Intentions.

Another interesting word.

Intentions, hmmmmm.

Do any of you all ever wonder about what the "intentions" were behind threads such as this one?

I bet there are some un-intended thoughts circulating as we ponder.
 
Just a passing thought Terese. In reading this ...
However, I think actions are simply a "marker" of one's true motivations, and tend to believe that people can more honestly be "defined", if you will, by their intentions than their actions.
Click to expand...

..... I am thinking that since actions are the marker of "motivations" or "intentions", which I fully agree with, that it is the action which better defines the intention. I believe the adage is to "judge people not by their words, but by their actions". I think that may be what you meant to convey?
 
Let's not forget the "Law of Unintended Consequences", which leads to the "Law of Intended Unintended Consequences", "Reverse Psychology" ...... where's my hip-waders ...... etc.
 
..... I am thinking that since actions are the marker of "motivations" or "intentions", which I fully agree with, that it is the action which better defines the intention. I believe the adage is to "judge people not by their words, but by their actions". I think that may be what you meant to convey?
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While I agree that actions speak louder than words, that wasn't really the point I was trying to make.

Let me give you a real life example.

Recently, a local charity held their annual fundraiser. One of the events at this fundraiser was a hot dog eating contest that was sponsored by local businesses. There was to be a trophy given to the company that raised the most money in sponsorships, along with a traveling trophy for the winner of the contest itself. "Merchant A" got behind it 100%....sponsored a contestant, encouraged employees to attend the event to cheer on their participant, allowed the charity to hand out flyers advertising the event from their location, and just all around got involved. On the day of the event, "Merchant B" asked "Merchant A" how much money they'd raised, and "Merchant A" answered truthfully. "Merchant B" then walked to the registration table and wrote their check for $2 more than the amount "Merchant A" had raised.

"Merchant B" walked away with the trophy for most money raised. "Merchant A" and his team had a great day of it, and have already offered to sponsor again next year. "Merchant B" is proudly displaying his trophy and putting himself out there as a great supporter of the charity and the community.

Which speaks louder here, actions or motivations?
 
Terese,
Without getting into the details, I think that you will see that you have compared actions to actions. I believe that the moral of your story is that "A" is better than "B" when the full body of their actions are compared, although "B" donated more money. The manifestation of the superior "intentions" of merchant "A" were measured by their greater quantity of action.
Getting back to the original gist of things (I think), but it would be that intentions are fiction, and will always be that until the tangible fact of actions.

"But I really want to change for the better."
"OK, prove it."
 
We all change, none of us are the people we were say 20 years ago(for those who have been around well more than 20 years lol) Life experience changes you.

Now can a bad person become a good person? sure .. And vice versa. But I as well think there is something more to the question being asked here. Randy
 
Chameleon Company said:
Terese,
Without getting into the details, I think that you will see that you have compared actions to actions. I believe that the moral of your story is that "A" is better than "B" when the full body of their actions are compared, although "B" donated more money. The manifestation of the superior "intentions" of merchant "A" were measured by their greater quantity of action.
Getting back to the original gist of things (I think), but it would be that intentions are fiction, and will always be that until the tangible fact of actions.

"But I really want to change for the better."
"OK, prove it."
Click to expand...
I think, and it's quite possible I'm wrong, that what she meant was that A worked with honour and integrity.

B didn't.

Sometimes it's HOW you play the game, not whether you win or loose. heh heh heh
 
Wes,
Glad you figured it out, cause I'm still scratching my head, and its starting to bleed :) Terese, I think I know what you meant, and agree that we all believe in genuine good intentions. For better or worse, some time ago I became a "don't tell me, just shut-up and do it" individual. While it may sound a bit harsh, it also cuts-to-the-chase real quick.
Lucille, I don't know what you were pondering as you made the thread-starting post. But whether it be drug addiction, or some other terrible behavior traits that needed to end, every person that I have ever known that made that change may have had some help, such as rehab, etc, but that the ultimate change of direction occurred when they looked at themselves in one of those epiphany moments. While realized obligations to a spouse, family, employer, friends, etc, may have been motivators, the only motivation that was strong enough to see it through was the commitment to oneself. Being better for someone else just wasn't going to carry the load. Knowing you needed to be better for yourself, with the added knowledge that all around you would also benefit, will get it done.
 
Chameleon Company said:
Lucille, I don't know what you were pondering as you made the thread-starting post. .
Click to expand...
The idea for this thread came from a combination of two events: One, a recent business thread here on Fauna where a person stated they were changing for the better, and from the evidence shown so far, that did not happen.
And at about the same time one of my sons had to go through a difficult situation involving someone he knew; he learned a lot about life from the experience
I hope for their own sakes people can indeed make changes, but with these recent thoughts in mind, I asked y'all for your own opinions and experiences and thoughts.
Particularly when youngsters are involved, one hopes that they can see the light and make changes in themselves and go on to have a better life.
 
Don't know your son's age, or that of his friend, and it is not important to the thread IMO. I have seen major course corrections, where the change needed was both fundamental and significant, occur in the 20-25 year-old period. Hope all is well.
 
lucille said:
The idea for this thread came from a combination of two events: One, a recent business thread here on Fauna where a person stated they were changing for the better, and from the evidence shown so far, that did not happen.
And at about the same time one of my sons had to go through a difficult situation involving someone he knew; he learned a lot about life from the experience
I hope for their own sakes people can indeed make changes, but with these recent thoughts in mind, I asked y'all for your own opinions and experiences and thoughts.
Particularly when youngsters are involved, one hopes that they can see the light and make changes in themselves and go on to have a better life.
Click to expand...


Well as far as the thread on the BOI, my hope is that this person learned that this type of behavior will not be tolerated here and will quickly be exposed.

My hope for you son learned a valueable life lesson without to much pain or trouble for himself.
 
Thanks Laura and Jim. He might come up from college for a day just to visit this weekend. He, and we all, make our own choices but sometimes it is good to have someone listen as I do to him.
He is at that time of life where he is figuring out more about his world, and other people, he makes his choices but I'm there to listen to his thoughts..
 
lucille said:
I have friends that go back more than 30 years. They are older now, and a bit wiser perhaps, but otherwise pretty much the same people they were years and decades ago when I first met them.

Sometimes, people attempt to change who and what they are.

Every once in a while, those put in prison choose to try to travel the right road from then on and become law abiding citizens.
Sometimes people who have relationship problems, who are on the verge of divorce, vow they will try anew so that the relationship will succeed.
People 'get religion' and devote their lives to following the precepts of that religion.
Sometimes, because of a major life event such as a birth of a child, people who never tried very hard before get the incentive to go forth and really make something of themselves.

Does this last? In your opinion, are we what we are born to be, or can we make fundamental and lasting changes to who we really are?
Click to expand...

I really hope we can change... I have been a loser and dork all of my life and would love to change that lol...
 
You sound like you want to take a new direction in your life, and change some things?
 
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