Can You Help a Breeder Who Just Lost Her Entire Collection of Geckos?

[Seattle_Gecko]

Hello Fauna Community--

I'm a newbie to the community, but I've been absorbing the knowledge and wisdom here for the last month. I'm writing with a sad heart because last night I learned of a terrible tragedy that has befallen a local gecko breeder and I wanted to reach out to the Fauna community and ask for your help.

Elise and Ross Erickson of "Integrated Exotics" based in Lake Stevens, WA posted this message last night on their Facebook page
tonight: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Integrated-Exotics/301547099893467

"Due to a mechanical malfunction of the air conditioner in our reptile room we lost our entire Crested Gecko and Mourning Gecko collection... I'm not sure when we will have these available again as our business has been shaken by this loss. Thank you to everyone for your support of our business so far."

Here's what happened-- the cooling unit in their AC broke, but the unit continued to run and began pumping heated air into the reptile room. By the time they came home from work, the temperature was approaching 100 degrees.

I've only known Elise and Ross for a short time. I met them at the recent Seattle Reptile show where I purchased one of the amazing terrariums that Elise designs. One thing that was obvious to me from the beginning was their passion for what they do and that they cared deeply about every one of their geckos. Now, they're all gone. Their entire collection of 48 geckos they'd been building, breeding, and nurturing for the last two years. Needless to say, Elise and Ross are devastated. I've only just met them, and I'm torn-up!

So, eventhough I'm new to the community, I hope I can ask for your support to help Elise and Ross rebuild their collection and save their business. Would anyone be able to donate Crested or Mourning Geckos from their collections? For my part, I would volunteer to drive anywhere within a 75-mile radius of Seattle to pick-up and deliver any donations to them. Additionally, if you're able to donate five or more geckos, I'd cover any shipping costs.

Another way you can help is by offering Elise and Ross discounts on their purchases as they rebuild.

If you can't help in these ways, perhaps you could help get the word out by passing along this posting. If you have other ideas for how to help Elise and Ross, please contact them or me.

Here's their information:

Elise and Ross Erickson
email: [email protected]
web: www.integratedexotics.com
facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Integrated-Exotics/301547099893467


Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy post!
Mark...

 

[Seattle_Gecko]

For some reason I don't have an EDIT or DELETE button to make changes to my post, anyone know why?

The change that I hoped to make was to delete the idea of donating geckos. I've gotten some feedback that this really isn't a good idea However, if any breeders did want to help, the best way would be by offering discounts on geckos that Elise and Ross chose from your collections.

Thank you!

 

[Lucille]

I am so sorry to hear of their disaster. I know that others from time to time have had similar equipment malfunctions. I am sure as the business is rebuilt, it will be done with an eye toward backup methods so that this disaster never repeats.

I have suggestions: If their business was insured, they should immediately contact their insurer. They should take pictures and keep receipts so that they can take business loss deductions with the IRS if appropriate.
Finally, the Small Business Administration may be able to offer guidance on any grants/loans that might be available for them.http://www.sba.gov/loans-and-grants

 

[Seattle_Gecko]

Thanks Lucille.

Do you have any idea why I don't have an EDIT or DELETE button yet? I looked at the Help documentation here-- and it outlines the steps-- but I don't have those buttons.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Do you have any idea why I don't have an EDIT or DELETE button yet? I looked at the Help documentation here-- and it outlines the steps-- but I don't have those buttons.

Hello,
Only contributing members have the ability to edit their posts.

Here is the table of permissions for the various memberships (guest, registured, contributing) which details what each level can or can't access. I hope this helps:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64541
-April

 

[Seattle_Gecko]

Thanks April. I'd like to delete this post. Is that something you can do or can I request this from an Admin?

 

[hhmoore]

Just to weigh in with my opinion (even though you were addressing April).
I saw this when it first posted, and it didn't sit right with me from the start:
1) It really has nothing to do with General Business Discussions
2) I'm not a fan of such solicitations
3) The site does not endorse such solicitations; but, depending on the wording, they are sometimes tolerated.

Even noting the above, after reading and rereading your post, I couldn't really justify (me) taking any action against it. We do not make a habit of editing or deleting member's posts unless they are in violation of some specific rules/policies...that generally includes situations where a member requests the deletion. That may sound like a hard line to take on a benign matter; but consider it this way - editing threads is a benefit of paid membership. I'm not sure that deleting threads comes with the Contributor level subscription. If it doesn't, you editing out the first post of the thread would leave a bunch of subsequent posts that don't make a whole lot of sense. If you could delete the thread, doing so after other members have replied would mean you are deleting other people's posts, as well. As far as the moderation team stepping in and editing/deleting your post at your request - how would we justify do that for you, but denying all of the other people that ask? Why would people contribute, if the benefits of those subscriptions are being given away? Keep in mind that this site has thousands of members; and, if we started acting on such requests, it wouldn't take long before we were doing nothing but going around editing/deleting for people that proofread after the fact, changed their mind about posting something, etc.

 

[Seattle_Gecko]

Really, I've both administered and participated in dozens of forums over the many, many years I've been on on the Internet and I've NEVER encountered a forum where the creator of their own posts does not have the right to delete or edit them unless they pay for that privilege. That's simply is not how a community forums operates. Period. End of story.

There are a myriad of reasons to enable such a basic feature and no supportable reason I can think in support of it. It's simply an illogical policy. I'm certain at one time there must have been some situation which seemed to warrant such a change in policy, but to try to drive paid membership by disabling a basic function of any open community forum, the ability to edit and delete posts, when then you're working against your own purposes. I wouldn't pay for a service unless I was convinced I'd receive some benefit from that service. How can I experience the value of this community if I can't fully participate in it? It's illogical.

As far as how you justify my request, that's up to you.

Your "slippery slope" argument is not convincing at all. I had specific reasons (which I hope I clearly stated) why I wanted this, my first post, deleted. If you're unable to use your own judgment for when such requests are or are not appropriate, then how are you different then an unthinking machine? Why have moderators at all?

This website is amazing and been incredibly helpful to me. As a newbie, I've come to rely on it. This forum, and it rigid rules, are NOT for me.

 

[WebSlave]

Really, I've both administered and participated in dozens of forums over the many, many years I've been on on the Internet and I've NEVER encountered a forum where the creator of their own posts does not have the right to delete or edit them unless they pay for that privilege. That's simply is not how a community forums operates. Period. End of story.

There are a myriad of reasons to enable such a basic feature and no supportable reason I can think in support of it. It's simply an illogical policy. I'm certain at one time there must have been some situation which seemed to warrant such a change in policy, but to try to drive paid membership by disabling a basic function of any open community forum, the ability to edit and delete posts, when then you're working against your own purposes. I wouldn't pay for a service unless I was convinced I'd receive some benefit from that service. How can I experience the value of this community if I can't fully participate in it? It's illogical.

As far as how you justify my request, that's up to you.

Your "slippery slope" argument is not convincing at all. I had specific reasons (which I hope I clearly stated) why I wanted this, my first post, deleted. If you're unable to use your own judgment for when such requests are or are not appropriate, then how are you different then an unthinking machine? Why have moderators at all?

This website is amazing and been incredibly helpful to me. As a newbie, I've come to rely on it. This forum, and it rigid rules, are NOT for me.

Please watch out for that door knob when the door bangs you on the ass on your way out.....

 

[AbsoluteApril]

That's simply is not how a community forums operates. Period. End of story.

Is there a world-wide manual about how all forums are 'supposed' to be?

This is Rich's site, he made it, he makes the rules and he can do whatever he wants with it. He offers memberships and having perks for those memberships makes sense.

 

[Seattle_Gecko]

@WebSlave: Well, you've really added some value to this conversation.

@April: Of course, the owner of a website has the absolute right to define and enforce whatever policy he/she wants. Such powers have nothing to do with the wisdom or value or such policies.

Is there a world-wide manual, that's simply inane. Of course not. If this is an insular community immune of hearing diverse opinions from potential new members, then you've just offered an additional reason why I wouldn't want to participate in THIS section of this otherwise fantastic resource.

Let's not let this thread degrade into snarkiness and pettiness. I've come here asking for help for someone who has suffered a tragedy from a community I thought would be a sympathetic to her plight. My assumption has proved unsupported by the evidence however. My bad.

 

[Lucille]

Really, I've both administered and participated in dozens of forums over the many, many years I've been on on the Internet

Why not go to them and ask for funds, they know you?

How can I experience the value of this community if I can't fully participate in it?

There are over 65,000 people who came through the doors just like you did and then chose to become members.

 

[Seattle_Gecko]

There are over 65,000 people who came through the doors just like you did and then chose to become members.

Let me direct you to the Wikipedia page on logical fallacies such as this:
"Argumentum ad populum (literally, an argument to the people) is the logical fallacy that just because something is popular, it is therefore true. Undoubtedly many popular notions are true, but their truth is not a function of their popularity." (Source: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum)

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Mark, pardon my snarkiness but in my opinion your response to Harald was rather aggressive and I felt it was demeaning the 'worth' of this site and staff.

I do think trying to reach out and help someone in need is a good thing and I'm sorry Elsie and Ross lost their collection, that is devestating.

 

[Lucille]

Let me direct you to the Wikipedia page

Let me direct you to the door. You came here for money, and then wanted to direct this site to work as you wished.
I do wish your friends the best and hope they get their business back on track.

 

[Seattle_Gecko]

@April: Your snarkiness is personally welcome, but it generally degrades the actual purpose/content of the post. If you re-read this post from the beginning to end in a few days, sans emotion, I think you may feel differently. If Harald was upset or disturbed by my tone, that in your opinion was aggressive (which I don't share-- it was clear, to the point, and firm), then Harald can surely defend himself.

@Lucille: I've already been invited to the door by someone else. I keep getting called back into the room however. And no, I did not come asking anyone for money. Please show me where I've done so.

 

[WebSlave]

@WebSlave: Well, you've really added some value to this conversation.

@April: Of course, the owner of a website has the absolute right to define and enforce whatever policy he/she wants. Such powers have nothing to do with the wisdom or value or such policies.

Is there a world-wide manual, that's simply inane. Of course not. If this is an insular community immune of hearing diverse opinions from potential new members, then you've just offered an additional reason why I wouldn't want to participate in THIS section of this otherwise fantastic resource.

Let's not let this thread degrade into snarkiness and pettiness. I've come here asking for help for someone who has suffered a tragedy from a community I thought would be a sympathetic to her plight. My assumption has proved unsupported by the evidence however. My bad.

Yeah, and YOUR value is where exactly?

You chose to move this conversation into one composed of "snarkiness and pettiness", so now you think it "snarky and petty" of others to point your snarkiness out to you? You appear to have made a mistake posting this thread in the first place and want US to clean up your mess. And then you turn around and start snarking at us because we won't do your bidding to do the clean up. It was explained why not, and that just was not good for you, because YOU know better about how things SHOULD be here. Lord have mercy, but how did we EVER get along without your guidance the last 10 years or so?

And to correct another error you are apparently making, we are not unsympathetic to "her plight". We are unsympathetic towards YOUR presumptions about how this site should be run and how you feel that YOU must be right, simply because you wish it to be so.

And yeah, I know, you are yet another genius that knows so much more than I do about the proper way to run a website like this. Spare me, please.... When you set up a site like this and it gets more traffic and more participation, THEN we can talk.

 

[WebSlave]

Let me direct you to the Wikipedia page on logical fallacies such as this:
"Argumentum ad populum (literally, an argument to the people) is the logical fallacy that just because something is popular, it is therefore true. Undoubtedly many popular notions are true, but their truth is not a function of their popularity." (Source: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum)

And please let me direct your attention to yet another Wikipedia page (if this is the game you want to play here) that appears to relate to your statements:

Megalomania is a psycho-pathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of power, relevance, or omnipotence. 'Megalomania is characterized by an inflated sense of self-esteem and overestimation by persons of their powers and beliefs'.[1] Historically it was used as an old name for narcissistic personality disorder prior to the latter's first use by Heinz Kohut in 1968, and is used these days as a non-clinical equivalent.[2][3] It is not mentioned in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)[4] or the International Statistical Classification of Diseases (ICD).

 

[Lucille]

Please show me where I've done so.

the best way would be by offering discounts

Mark, all I can say is that your behavior is petty and unwelcome, and you have this false idea that you can just walk onto a site and tell the owner what his policies ought to be.


Should the Ericksons themselves choose to visit the site, I do want them to realize that many of us empathize with their loss and hope that their business can weather this disaster.

 

[hhmoore]

You've got one major point wrong...we aren't trying to compel people to pay for the ability to edit their posts. For those that do choose to support this site financially, however, we do offer a combination of benefits. Are they worth the cost for somebody interested in one of those features - probably not, in many cases...but they are nice additions for those that opt for paid membership.
This site (in its current form) was sort of built around the BOI, where no editing/deleting is allowed. Yes, that is different from many other sites...but that is the case in other aspects, as well.

As you indicated, you are new here. Being decidedly critical and snarky will get you nowhere on this site. You chose to jump in before you got a feel for the place...no big deal, except that you expectations are in conflict with how we do things.
Regarding your antagonistic comment about being unable to use my own judgement, you are off the mark. We have, as guidelines, the rules and policies of this site...other than that, we have a good deal of latitude in how we interpret and enforce them. I've used my judgement on this matter a few times already - I left it when I first saw it, decided not to remove it when you asked, chose to reply to that request, and responded to your objection.

You can accept my decision and shrug it off, you can have a little tantrum that will not get your thread deleted (but may get you banned, depending on how you conduct yourself, and how long it goes on), or you can flip us off & leave. Rest assured that you are the only one affected by that decision, so make the choice that is right for you.

One last thing...if you want to continue your discussion of site policy, and how it applies to you, please take it to the Fauna Feedback Forum - it is quite off topic in this thread.