path95rb
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Can you make $$$ breeding? I am interest in breeding, but can you make a OK living doing it?
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can you make $$$ breeding???
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Monte
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money for breeding reptiles . . .
To be honest with you - I think all of us at one time or another envisioned being able to make a living from our hobby. That's why you see all these fancy names and logos around here. "Powergeckos" sounds better than "Monte's Pets". The truth of the matter is that many of us are very happy if our sales can cut our food costs down a smidge.
To make a living in herps (in my opinion) either takes being on the very cutting edge, producing highly desireable morphs in significant quantities or wholesaling a huge variety of animals to many Pet stores.
Some of the more successful breeders that I know - who actually make a living at it are people like Kelli H of HISSS. She is always on the cutting edge of what she breeds - and she has the ability to think "outside the box" in her breeding projects. (that's a gift) If you talk to a person like Kelli and tell her about this great idea you are thinking about trying in the herp world, she was say in the most positive voice - "That's awesome. You should try it. I worked on that about 5 years ago. If you get some good stuff, put me on your list." LOL
Another friend I have is John Meltzer - who does both Pet Stores and also herp shows. He has both quantities of many herps for the selected stores he supplies - plus he specializes in various species of snakes, and has a great reputation among herpers which makes his animals desireable.
There are others on this board, who do this for a living, Jodi, Marcia, and some who do it as a significant side business making pretty good dough. I can't speak for them - but I'm sure they have great stories and advice - much better advice than I can give.
My personal claim to fame is for a brief moment - I had cornered the Striped Leo Market on Kingsnake according to one guy. That lasted about 2 hours. LOL
I'm sticking to a fun hobby that pays for some food every now and then.
Good luck in your future.
To be honest with you - I think all of us at one time or another envisioned being able to make a living from our hobby. That's why you see all these fancy names and logos around here. "Powergeckos" sounds better than "Monte's Pets". The truth of the matter is that many of us are very happy if our sales can cut our food costs down a smidge.
To make a living in herps (in my opinion) either takes being on the very cutting edge, producing highly desireable morphs in significant quantities or wholesaling a huge variety of animals to many Pet stores.
Some of the more successful breeders that I know - who actually make a living at it are people like Kelli H of HISSS. She is always on the cutting edge of what she breeds - and she has the ability to think "outside the box" in her breeding projects. (that's a gift) If you talk to a person like Kelli and tell her about this great idea you are thinking about trying in the herp world, she was say in the most positive voice - "That's awesome. You should try it. I worked on that about 5 years ago. If you get some good stuff, put me on your list." LOL
Another friend I have is John Meltzer - who does both Pet Stores and also herp shows. He has both quantities of many herps for the selected stores he supplies - plus he specializes in various species of snakes, and has a great reputation among herpers which makes his animals desireable.
There are others on this board, who do this for a living, Jodi, Marcia, and some who do it as a significant side business making pretty good dough. I can't speak for them - but I'm sure they have great stories and advice - much better advice than I can give.
My personal claim to fame is for a brief moment - I had cornered the Striped Leo Market on Kingsnake according to one guy. That lasted about 2 hours. LOL
I'm sticking to a fun hobby that pays for some food every now and then.
Good luck in your future.
Honestly i'm happy if the animals i sell in a year pay for all the food and cages and all the other necessities to keeping herps, basically if you breed what you love then the money will start coming in but i doubt that breeding herps is going to make you rich, it doesnt happen very often unless you can afford all the high end morphs etc.
Eric Weintraub
Eric Weintraub
MattP
New member
You can make money, if....................... you like to gamble/take risks, have a true passion for what you breed, and if you have money to spend/invest. You could spend thousands of dollars and not see a return for a few years, but if you have patience and stick it out......... Then I believe you can make money!
montezuma
Sandwich Artist
Here's my opinion on the subject:
If you are looking to get rich by breeding reptiles you are looking at the wrong business. You CAN make alot of money and if you are lucky you can get rich. Looking at breeding reptiles as a way of making you the big bucks is simply the wrong attitude. These are living creatures and require TLC and not to be looked at for the sake of simply making a buck. I think some of the BEST people in the business of reptiles are not in it for the cash flow but simply love reptiles and enjoy doing it. When you enjoy it, the reward is more than just money.
If you are looking to get rich by breeding reptiles you are looking at the wrong business. You CAN make alot of money and if you are lucky you can get rich. Looking at breeding reptiles as a way of making you the big bucks is simply the wrong attitude. These are living creatures and require TLC and not to be looked at for the sake of simply making a buck. I think some of the BEST people in the business of reptiles are not in it for the cash flow but simply love reptiles and enjoy doing it. When you enjoy it, the reward is more than just money.
C
Chris@TSE
Guest
I could not have said it better myself......
Jodi L Aherns
New member
THese other replys hit it right on the head.If you want to try you will need at least $500,000.00 to start.And you may see that back in the pocket in 5 years if you are very lucky.I most years pull in some good cash,but i sleep at most 3-4 hours a day.Breeding is a passion if you do not have it do not even try.
KelliH
doesn't drink the koolaid
Aww, Monte! You are the best, Bro, and it's so funny because if you are talking about the project I think you are, look at me starting all over again with it. LOL. What's wrong with me? Oh yeah, I am obsessed...
OK, so I will try and answer the question. With a lot of time, effort, blood, sweat and tears, good luck and, the biggest one of all: MONEY INVESTED, LOL, one can actually make a profit off leopard geckos. I love what I do and I love it that I can stay home with my little boy and also my teenage boy after school (when he isn't out skateboarding). I truly love my animals and I do my best to give them the best of care. I have made so many friends through the reptile hobby, some of them I am sure I will have forever. But I have also sacrificed a lot. I basically don't have a social life other than partying after the herp shows and rarely hanging out with other local herper friends. During the day I am busy with my 3 year old and all that goes into being a stay at home mom. In the afternoon I am doing stuff with/for my teenager and some of you may know what all that entails LOL. So I am pretty much up until 3 or 4 in the AM doing my animal work and get about 4 or 5 hours sleep a night at the most. I cannot go on any sort of vacation (other than a weekend trip to, you guessed it! a great area for field herping!) because I cannot leave my geckos alone for longer than that, nor is there anyone I truly trust to care for them while I am gone.
Yes, I make a rather meager (to put it mildly) living from breeding leopard geckos but it has required a ton of sacrifices and etc. I could not do it if I did not have a complete and total obsession/passion for reptiles (specifically leos). It is also a VERY stressful thing, and you have to have a high tolerence for that type of stress, or be like myself and thrive off it.
You should never get into any kind of animal because you think you are going to make money breeding it. Get into the animals because you have a genuine passion for it, and want to learn everything you can about that animal, or animals. If you have a true talent at what you are doing, in this case breeding leos and running a business, it will all fall into place. I could work at any number of jobs in the "real world" and make twice what I earn from my geckos. But honestly, at this point in my life there is nothing I would rather do than what I am doing right now. If the day comes where I am not enjoying "the life", well, then that will be the time I take a step back and re evaluate. For now though, I am content to be a Mommy by day, Herpetoculturist by night!
OK, so I will try and answer the question. With a lot of time, effort, blood, sweat and tears, good luck and, the biggest one of all: MONEY INVESTED, LOL, one can actually make a profit off leopard geckos. I love what I do and I love it that I can stay home with my little boy and also my teenage boy after school (when he isn't out skateboarding). I truly love my animals and I do my best to give them the best of care. I have made so many friends through the reptile hobby, some of them I am sure I will have forever. But I have also sacrificed a lot. I basically don't have a social life other than partying after the herp shows and rarely hanging out with other local herper friends. During the day I am busy with my 3 year old and all that goes into being a stay at home mom. In the afternoon I am doing stuff with/for my teenager and some of you may know what all that entails LOL. So I am pretty much up until 3 or 4 in the AM doing my animal work and get about 4 or 5 hours sleep a night at the most. I cannot go on any sort of vacation (other than a weekend trip to, you guessed it! a great area for field herping!) because I cannot leave my geckos alone for longer than that, nor is there anyone I truly trust to care for them while I am gone.
Yes, I make a rather meager (to put it mildly) living from breeding leopard geckos but it has required a ton of sacrifices and etc. I could not do it if I did not have a complete and total obsession/passion for reptiles (specifically leos). It is also a VERY stressful thing, and you have to have a high tolerence for that type of stress, or be like myself and thrive off it.
You should never get into any kind of animal because you think you are going to make money breeding it. Get into the animals because you have a genuine passion for it, and want to learn everything you can about that animal, or animals. If you have a true talent at what you are doing, in this case breeding leos and running a business, it will all fall into place. I could work at any number of jobs in the "real world" and make twice what I earn from my geckos. But honestly, at this point in my life there is nothing I would rather do than what I am doing right now. If the day comes where I am not enjoying "the life", well, then that will be the time I take a step back and re evaluate. For now though, I am content to be a Mommy by day, Herpetoculturist by night!
robin d.
New member
i am robin and kelli got me adicted to geckos LOL.... i do not look at it as a job.. this is what i do to settle myself down, it's my hobby.... the only thing i can hope is that the geckos i breed will pay for themselves (or at least their food) and maybe one day pay for the food for my boa constrictors (my other passion) .... i am not looking to make money, i doubt i ever will from it but if i can manage to help pay for the food and whatnot (so i can continue to do what i do) i will be happy... that is my goal
dwedeking
Member
I think Kelli has a very good attitude towards the breeding as a business. While I feel you have to be a "herp nerd" to start with that does not make being successful as a business mutually exclusive. You can have both (which is the true sign of your business being a success - making money and doing what you like).
Here are a list of things I think that people screw up when they look at this from a business standpoint:
- Piss poor planning. Break out a spreadsheet before you buy your first "investment" animal. Figure out your total costs (more than just the animal and cage, but food, electricity, space, medical, time etc). Project a breeding quantity (cut it by 10% - 25% to give you a safety margin) and a selling cost (both high end, low end and wholesale so you know what your escape routes are if something happens personally or with the market). Make sure that when it's all said and done the profit margin is where you want/need to survive.
- Thinking that quality = loss. My personal belief is that there is a market for quality and customer service that people are willing to pay for.
- Patience. Probably the hardest part of the game (for me anyway) is when you buy those first group of potential breeders and have to wait a year or two for production.
- Lack of research. Find out what people are buying and at what prices. In a business scenario you have to balance the type of animals that you want with the type of animals you can sell to pay the bills. For example, we first started with both chameleons and bearded dragons. I allowed our chameleon collection to dwindle as the time required didn't balance the market/profitability (compared to dragons). Since we were new and doing it all ourselves we didn't have the spare time for a group of species that were more a personal love than a business decision. Now that we have more time and resources we will be rebuilding our collection.
Anyway that's my $.02 or maybe little more due to inflation
Here are a list of things I think that people screw up when they look at this from a business standpoint:
- Piss poor planning. Break out a spreadsheet before you buy your first "investment" animal. Figure out your total costs (more than just the animal and cage, but food, electricity, space, medical, time etc). Project a breeding quantity (cut it by 10% - 25% to give you a safety margin) and a selling cost (both high end, low end and wholesale so you know what your escape routes are if something happens personally or with the market). Make sure that when it's all said and done the profit margin is where you want/need to survive.
- Thinking that quality = loss. My personal belief is that there is a market for quality and customer service that people are willing to pay for.
- Patience. Probably the hardest part of the game (for me anyway) is when you buy those first group of potential breeders and have to wait a year or two for production.
- Lack of research. Find out what people are buying and at what prices. In a business scenario you have to balance the type of animals that you want with the type of animals you can sell to pay the bills. For example, we first started with both chameleons and bearded dragons. I allowed our chameleon collection to dwindle as the time required didn't balance the market/profitability (compared to dragons). Since we were new and doing it all ourselves we didn't have the spare time for a group of species that were more a personal love than a business decision. Now that we have more time and resources we will be rebuilding our collection.
Anyway that's my $.02 or maybe little more due to inflation
cthulhu77
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Good advice from all...I have a good friend who keeps on trying to break into the reptile breeding trade, but changes direction too many times...last year was albino ball pythons, now it is mandarin rats...this constant change of animals doesn't work.
Good research is paramount...spend some time doing a business plan, and if possible, find a mentor in the trade...Apprenticeship is worth its weight in gold.
greg
Good research is paramount...spend some time doing a business plan, and if possible, find a mentor in the trade...Apprenticeship is worth its weight in gold.
greg
Golden Gate Geckos
Mean Old Gecko Lady
my 2 cents...
I get asked for business advise often, and I think a link to this thread is going to be my "answer" from now on. All of the responses are so appropriate, and cover a wide array of wonderful opinions! One thing is for certain... every one loves their animals!
Yes, I breed Leopard Geckos for a living, and make a meager profit. But there would be no way I could ever pay a mortgage, car payment, insurance, utilities, or groceries on it! In order to do that, you will have to spend literally thousands of dollars, and don't forget it is a 24/7 job! It's not like you can take your cat or dog to the kennel and forget about them when you go on vacation. If I were to count the number of hours each week I work without a paycheck, I would be in the hole. LOL!
I wish I could give you step-by-step instructions on how to get started in breeding as a business, but there really isn't a formula. I suppose the best piece of advise I could give would be to do it because you love the animals, and not expect to make any real money! The breeders that are able to make a living by selling reptiles are few and far between... and those ones have been in the 'business' for a l-o-n-g time. Don't expect to rise to the top overnight, as the reptile industry can be very cruel and unforgiving by making new breeders 'pay their dues' before being accepted as legitimate!
In my opinion, your reputation as an ethical breeder and your knowledge are first and foremost in establishing yourself. I honestly feel that the quality (health and beauty) of the animals you raise are the keystone for success over the quantity, and unless you have the time, space, and genetic understanding, coming up with the latest "new morph" is an unrealistic goal for the vast majority of us. Respect in the herp world is not just automatically given... it is earned by your own level of commitment to your animals and the customers you sell them to.
If I were to start out all over again, I would be more selective of the breeders I purchased, and been more disciplined about 'collecting' my geckos. I would have put an initial breeding plan together, and stuck with it for a couple of years. I have learned not to put all my eggs in one basket by producing hundreds of SHTCT's when the market is saturated with them, and instead provide a smaller quantity of a wide variety of exceptional and distinctive morphs. Trying to predict this highly competitive market will only frustrate you, since it is so dynamic and demand driven. Today's $1,000 gecko will only be worth $100 in a few years once everyone jumps on the bandwagon to mass produce them... as they try to capitalize on the newest wave of morphs.
So, in a nutshell, my advise for starting out would be:
- come up with a 'mission statement' that expresses your uniqueness.
- collect a few superior morphs that you like as breeding stock.
- focus on making these morphs better, and not producing more of them.
- learn everything that you can about the animals you keep.
- share your knowledge without being egotistical or overly competitive.
- provide the absolute best customer support you possibly can.
- don't badmouth your competition... they can be your greatest allies!
- keep your ethics and the care of your animals your first priority.
- keep your goals realistic.
- don't quit your day job.
- have fun doing what you love to do!
I get asked for business advise often, and I think a link to this thread is going to be my "answer" from now on. All of the responses are so appropriate, and cover a wide array of wonderful opinions! One thing is for certain... every one loves their animals!
Yes, I breed Leopard Geckos for a living, and make a meager profit. But there would be no way I could ever pay a mortgage, car payment, insurance, utilities, or groceries on it! In order to do that, you will have to spend literally thousands of dollars, and don't forget it is a 24/7 job! It's not like you can take your cat or dog to the kennel and forget about them when you go on vacation. If I were to count the number of hours each week I work without a paycheck, I would be in the hole. LOL!
I wish I could give you step-by-step instructions on how to get started in breeding as a business, but there really isn't a formula. I suppose the best piece of advise I could give would be to do it because you love the animals, and not expect to make any real money! The breeders that are able to make a living by selling reptiles are few and far between... and those ones have been in the 'business' for a l-o-n-g time. Don't expect to rise to the top overnight, as the reptile industry can be very cruel and unforgiving by making new breeders 'pay their dues' before being accepted as legitimate!
In my opinion, your reputation as an ethical breeder and your knowledge are first and foremost in establishing yourself. I honestly feel that the quality (health and beauty) of the animals you raise are the keystone for success over the quantity, and unless you have the time, space, and genetic understanding, coming up with the latest "new morph" is an unrealistic goal for the vast majority of us. Respect in the herp world is not just automatically given... it is earned by your own level of commitment to your animals and the customers you sell them to.
If I were to start out all over again, I would be more selective of the breeders I purchased, and been more disciplined about 'collecting' my geckos. I would have put an initial breeding plan together, and stuck with it for a couple of years. I have learned not to put all my eggs in one basket by producing hundreds of SHTCT's when the market is saturated with them, and instead provide a smaller quantity of a wide variety of exceptional and distinctive morphs. Trying to predict this highly competitive market will only frustrate you, since it is so dynamic and demand driven. Today's $1,000 gecko will only be worth $100 in a few years once everyone jumps on the bandwagon to mass produce them... as they try to capitalize on the newest wave of morphs.
So, in a nutshell, my advise for starting out would be:
- come up with a 'mission statement' that expresses your uniqueness.
- collect a few superior morphs that you like as breeding stock.
- focus on making these morphs better, and not producing more of them.
- learn everything that you can about the animals you keep.
- share your knowledge without being egotistical or overly competitive.
- provide the absolute best customer support you possibly can.
- don't badmouth your competition... they can be your greatest allies!
- keep your ethics and the care of your animals your first priority.
- keep your goals realistic.
- don't quit your day job.
- have fun doing what you love to do!
Last edited:
SFgeckos
New member
good discussion!
i agree with what everyone said...definately keep/breed what you like and if u happen to make enough return (or alot more) to pay for the cost of electricity/feeding/time for cleaning/maintence for your critters then awesome! its sad to see new herp people jump on the band wagon because of $$$ and then disappear from the hobby if they fail =( just remember most of the people "breeding for a living" have many years of experience
my motto has always been "it takes money to make money"...basically that goes for any type of investment- animals, stock market, real estate etc
-jon
i agree with what everyone said...definately keep/breed what you like and if u happen to make enough return (or alot more) to pay for the cost of electricity/feeding/time for cleaning/maintence for your critters then awesome! its sad to see new herp people jump on the band wagon because of $$$ and then disappear from the hobby if they fail =( just remember most of the people "breeding for a living" have many years of experience
my motto has always been "it takes money to make money"...basically that goes for any type of investment- animals, stock market, real estate etc
-jon
Monte
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Right on Marcia . . .
. . . I'm glad you posted. I want to say that what I like about Marcia's stock - is that she has a little bit of everything - and every offering is nice. You have nice patty's - nice trempers - etc. I respect that.
I also agree with Marcia's opinion on getting into the latest-greatest craze. I would rather offer nice, quality-looking examples of morphs I LOVE, instead of trying to get on the band wagon with the latest and greatest. I could never keep up with those who are on the cutting edge. I don't think very many have that sort of "vision" for the future.
You will always be able to sell quality - even if it's a plain old - "High Yellow".
. . . I'm glad you posted. I want to say that what I like about Marcia's stock - is that she has a little bit of everything - and every offering is nice. You have nice patty's - nice trempers - etc. I respect that.
I also agree with Marcia's opinion on getting into the latest-greatest craze. I would rather offer nice, quality-looking examples of morphs I LOVE, instead of trying to get on the band wagon with the latest and greatest. I could never keep up with those who are on the cutting edge. I don't think very many have that sort of "vision" for the future.
You will always be able to sell quality - even if it's a plain old - "High Yellow".
groovygeckos
GroovyGeckos.com
yes very good topic ....
.... i agree w/ this completely ! "its all about the love " i work w/ new and high-end morphs exclusively , and know full well about market "trends" and have not expected much in the way of profit . EXAMPLE : the "Rare" Tremper Patternless Albinos sold at 400-450 6 months ago to myself , are now at $250-300 w/ out many buyers ! it takes time if your not big on planning to find exactly what it is you want to work with (reason im beginning so many projects this season) ill soon find a few of those I like the best and go from there ! i do it because i love it
.... i agree w/ this completely ! "its all about the love " i work w/ new and high-end morphs exclusively , and know full well about market "trends" and have not expected much in the way of profit . EXAMPLE : the "Rare" Tremper Patternless Albinos sold at 400-450 6 months ago to myself , are now at $250-300 w/ out many buyers ! it takes time if your not big on planning to find exactly what it is you want to work with (reason im beginning so many projects this season) ill soon find a few of those I like the best and go from there ! i do it because i love it
hill4803
New member
The real secret is...
to find a job that will pay you to do a job that INCLUDES your herp hobby, get people to help you for free (ok a little extra credit every now and then) and raise your own feeders. Yep, become a science teacher! The students love to help out, everyone hangs out in my room and even VOLUNTEERS to do things like clean poop just to hold a gecko, and it keeps your herp-phobic (is that a word?) boss away from you! I also don't have to pay the extra cost of electricity for the ones at school
Not to mention summer vacation, come in every other day for an hour or two to clean / feed. Or just keep them at home in the summer. Works for me!
Breeding is just part of the "learning process" and I never have a shortage of new "educated" herpers looking to take care of a pet!
to find a job that will pay you to do a job that INCLUDES your herp hobby, get people to help you for free (ok a little extra credit every now and then) and raise your own feeders. Yep, become a science teacher! The students love to help out, everyone hangs out in my room and even VOLUNTEERS to do things like clean poop just to hold a gecko, and it keeps your herp-phobic (is that a word?) boss away from you! I also don't have to pay the extra cost of electricity for the ones at school
Not to mention summer vacation, come in every other day for an hour or two to clean / feed. Or just keep them at home in the summer. Works for me!
Breeding is just part of the "learning process" and I never have a shortage of new "educated" herpers looking to take care of a pet!
groovygeckos
GroovyGeckos.com
wow there are other teachers ive heard about w/students caring for the babies
something about Chondros .... a very good thing "conservation through edgumokacheon " in more than one way ..... lol
something about Chondros ....
a very good thing "conservation through edgumokacheon " in more than one way ..... lol 
ShannanD25
Leo Groupie
Yep, I do it all for the money....rolling in it....HA!
Rolling in the bills from starting up over a year ago...still.
I have a plan to payoff what I invested last year to get everything going within the next two seasons. I am also hoping to maybe, be able to put some money towards the higher electric bills, feeder bills, and incidental bills..But I knew starting out it isn't about making money. It was just a great hobby for me and actually kept me out of the malls and jewelry stores...I was a shop a-holic...now I buy bugs instead...
Family still thinks I went nutty....raising roaches in my house....digging through dirt for eggs, talking about poop.
If you are looking to get rich, this isn't the industry. It takes too many man hours and too much sacrifice to ever consider yourself monetarily rich. I think the only "richness" you'll get out of this hobby is watching your Leos' life cycles and learning all about them and meeting some really neat people in the herp business. Except Overton....he is weird...
Rolling in the bills from starting up over a year ago...still.
I have a plan to payoff what I invested last year to get everything going within the next two seasons. I am also hoping to maybe, be able to put some money towards the higher electric bills, feeder bills, and incidental bills..But I knew starting out it isn't about making money. It was just a great hobby for me and actually kept me out of the malls and jewelry stores...I was a shop a-holic...now I buy bugs instead...
Family still thinks I went nutty....raising roaches in my house....digging through dirt for eggs, talking about poop.
If you are looking to get rich, this isn't the industry. It takes too many man hours and too much sacrifice to ever consider yourself monetarily rich. I think the only "richness" you'll get out of this hobby is watching your Leos' life cycles and learning all about them and meeting some really neat people in the herp business. Except Overton....he is weird...
Ssthisto
New member
I think there's a phrase used in horsey circles that's particularly apt here...
"If you want to make a small fortune with reptiles... start with a large one."
"If you want to make a small fortune with reptiles... start with a large one."
dwedeking
Member
While I think the above two statements are true for 90% of the people that get into the business side of this, it is not impossible to "make it". Course this is true of all small businesses.
If making it "large" is your dream, then like all dreams you have to be prepared to do the following:
- Risk It All
- Out Work The Other Guy
- Commit To A Plan 125%
If you do the above three things, and catch a little luck it can be done.
With that said, there is nothing wrong with just breeding for fun. I remember walking around my first reptile show and noting to my wife how unhappy all the vendors are. In review, I think this is due to the fact that they didn't stay in the "fun" area of the hobby and yet didn't fully commit to making it a business. In that gray area in between all you do is watch money going out the door.