Can't seem to reply in my own threads...

[JudyC]

What about forums who allow this for free? There are ads on this site that help generate revenue. This is just like the ads on other forums that allow posting and bumping for free. Restrictions are just posted so that only so many bumps are allowed, and only so many posts are allowed a day.

What does it matter what other forums do? I guarantee you, you won't find another site with FREE ads that gets even a fraction of the traffic that Fauna does. Not to say there's anything wrong with advertising at these other sites as well....the more the merrier...but why should THEIR rules and procedures have any bearing on how Rich chooses to do things at Fauna?

 

[rcpreis3]

What does it matter what other forums do? I guarantee you, you won't find another site with FREE ads that gets even a fraction of the traffic that Fauna does. Not to say there's anything wrong with advertising at these other sites as well....the more the merrier...but why should THEIR rules and procedures have any bearing on how Rich chooses to do things at Fauna?

oh and me saying to go post an ad on kingsnake for free was sarcasm.

 

[hhmoore]

What about forums who allow this for free? There are ads on this site that help generate revenue. This is just like the ads on other forums that allow posting and bumping for free. Restrictions are just posted so that only so many bumps are allowed, and only so many posts are allowed a day.

In one of these discussions, Rich explained that this site was getting 1300+ posts per day. Lets be conservative, and say that 800 of them were in the classifieds. (Keep in the back of your mind that bumping ads has always been listed as a perk of paid membership here...and freebumping has increased exponentially over the past 5 years.) So we have 800 posts per day in the classifieds, and a large percentage of nonpaying advertisers that are working around the system that has been in place for bumps. Most of those people don't read announcements, or highlighted threads about policy changes...and, once notified, at least a fair number of them would continue to bump their ads unless a method was put in place to prevent them from doing so.
Where does that leave us? The moderation team (5 people, + Rich) would have to police those 800 posts - counting bumps (which would entail reviewing however many ads a given person has, if it is bumps per account per day; or just checking ads to ensure they are only bumped the appropriate number of times, if it is bumps per ad per day), considering various scenarios (such as what constitutes a bump, and what do to if other members are bumping somebody's ads), contacting people, issuing warnings and/or infractions, dealing with the resultant messages, etc. Keep in mind that there isn't a great way to divide the workload, and there is no guarantee of how much time any given moderator may be available on any given day, which necessarily means that there would be inadvertant cross coverage.

In an attempt to offer as much as possible, Rich has never limited the number of free ads a member can place. He could pay his programmer to set things up so registered members can make 2 posts in the classifieds per day, with corresponding increases in the posts per day based on membership level...but that would take away from the benefits offered to everybody. People at every level would (potentially) have legitimate complaints, and the result would likely be devastating to this site. Instead, he elected to REestablish that bumps are a perk of paid membership, and take a small measure to automatically place a small restriction on advertisers while still letting them respond to customer questions. This undoubtedly reduces the number of posts we have to look at, and makes a significant leap toward the intended outcome. As such, I think it was a pretty good choice.

 

[WebSlave]

What does it matter what other forums do? I guarantee you, you won't find another site with FREE ads that gets even a fraction of the traffic that Fauna does. Not to say there's anything wrong with advertising at these other sites as well....the more the merrier...but why should THEIR rules and procedures have any bearing on how Rich chooses to do things at Fauna?

Well, truth be known, if the traffic here in the classifieds was as light as in many of those other forums, bumping wouldn't even be a problem. I just took a look at a competing site and they have ALL of their classified ads in a single section, since traffic is pretty sparse there. Just the ads posted HERE in the Ball Pythons section alone in 24 hours is pretty nearly more than ALL of their ads posted in an entire month. If you can find a place offering free ads with more traffic than you can get here, well what's keeping you HERE?

Here, you can post as many ads as you want, for FREE. Sorry if that is not enough for you.....

So if people want to complain about how things are being run here, then the solution is simple. GO to those other forums offering free ads and free unlimited bumping where things are more to your liking. If traffic then picks up there, then you'll find the owners of those forums facing the same exact problems, and quite likely making the very same choices in how to deal with it. What are you going to do then? Go look for another fledgling site where it might be that only one or two people per day will even see your ads?

Or better yet, go start your own site and show everyone how much smarter than me that you are, and how easy it is to come up with better solutions for the problems I am facing, by how you run your own to put this one to shame.

Let me know how that works out for you...

 

[Utta]

Rich, how about paying the member to post their ads here, maybe that'll be enough for some people

 

[rcpreis3]

Hey Rich I think u missed my question about the participant level...

OMG Rich doesnt care about us hes ignoring questions cuz im just a registered user. lets all go to his BOI post and cry about it

 

[KelliH]

LOL at people bitching about being able to post classifieds for free!

 

[Mister Internet]

LOL at people bitching about being able to post classifieds for free!

And the even FUNNIER part is that these folks are sanctimoniously referring to themselves as "businesses" who "depend" on this free service.

I find myself able to feel nothing but incredulity that people in the reptile world can end up so far removed from reality... they are trying to make money running their "businesses" (term used VERY loosely), but they *demand* Rich bend over backward to provide them as many free services as possible. What about his business? And for that matter, what other "businesses" out there depend on CLASSIFIED ADS for their livelihood???

Honestly, if you're going to run a BUSINESS, run it like a freaking BUSINESS... develop an email list of people that WANT to hear from you, mail/post flyers, and have a website that doesn't suck so people will come to YOU to see your stuff. The majority of buyers in the reptile world are repeat, thoughtful buyers... the kind that will go to your site if you give them a reason to do so. They also know how to use the search to find the animals they want. If you're depending on fly-by, one-time purchasers for your monthly bills, which is basically the main reason someone would need to keep their ads as "up top" as possible, you're doing it wrong.

There are a lot of people here *pretending* to run a business, but I see and hear very few actual businesspeople. In the REAL world, you pay BIG money for qualified leads... which is what people interested in buying reptiles ARE when visiting a site like this... and you get them FOR FREE!

Everyone that's complained in this thread should be THANKING Rich for making this site a more pleasant place to be.

 

[WebSlave]

Hey Rich I think u missed my question about the participant level...

OMG Rich doesnt care about us hes ignoring questions cuz im just a registered user. lets all go to his BOI post and cry about it

Darn, you figured me out......


I haven't really thought much about the Participant membership resurrection enough to say much about it. I may make it a limited time paid membership for those people who only need it for, say, three months and would want to pay a cheaper fee for that sort of limited timeframe. But I need to try to keep all the levels of paid memberships balanced and where they make some sort of sense.

I may need to look at offering the paid memberships for multiple years at a discount for the longer periods of time. I've shied away from that in the past, because honestly, every time someone pays for a yearly membership, I feel committed to keeping this site running for that year. When I first set this up, I didn't want to be committed for any length of time beyond that because, well, anyone who has been here for any length of time knows why...

But now I think I've gotten through the rough head waters and pretty much know how I have to run this site, so it's here for the long haul. So I can feel more comfortable about committing myself to those longer periods of time. Of course, I could kick the bucket at any time, so who knows....

So this is just another thing on my list to address when I feel like taking time out of my retirement to look at that list.

 

[rcpreis3]

Darn, you figured me out......


I haven't really thought much about the Participant membership resurrection enough to say much about it. I may make it a limited time paid membership for those people who only need it for, say, three months and would want to pay a cheaper fee for that sort of limited timeframe. But I need to try to keep all the levels of paid memberships balanced and where they make some sort of sense.

I may need to look at offering the paid memberships for multiple years at a discount for the longer periods of time. I've shied away from that in the past, because honestly, every time someone pays for a yearly membership, I feel committed to keeping this site running for that year. When I first set this up, I didn't want to be committed for any length of time beyond that because, well, anyone who has been here for any length of time knows why...

But now I think I've gotten through the rough head waters and pretty much know how I have to run this site, so it's here for the long haul. So I can feel more comfortable about committing myself to those longer periods of time. Of course, I could kick the bucket at any time, so who knows....

So this is just another thing on my list to address when I feel like taking time out of my retirement to look at that list.

Work for me! I was just curious, cuz I did see it brought up earlier one of the threads about this.

 

[rcpreis3]

**works for me. sorry

 

[Clay Davenport]

And the even FUNNIER part is that these folks are sanctimoniously referring to themselves as "businesses" who "depend" on this free service.

Exactly what I was thinking. The reality is if they actually were trying to be a real business, they'd already be a paid member, most likely one of the two upper tiers, because the membership cost can be written off on their taxes as an advertising expense anyway.

 

[Keith N]

The other thing that I think is a little out of hand is say someone has 15 leopard geckos or ball pythons. Instead of makeing a thread and listing them they do a single thread per animal. I can understand if its say 2 animals but IMO they should be listed on one thread with respect to all the other people selling on here also.

 

[Mister Internet]

Exactly what I was thinking. The reality is if they actually were trying to be a real business, they'd already be a paid member, most likely one of the two upper tiers, because the membership cost can be written off on their taxes as an advertising expense anyway.

Yeah, I mean EVERY small business owner should basically be categorizing all of their expenditures that have anything to do with getting their name or product in front of someone as an Advertising expense. Business cards, flyers, mass emailing services (legitimate ones), letterhead, premium advertisements (Google AdWords, etc), you name it...

The REALITY is that there are very few people here that are "running a business" ... there are a LOT of people that are pretending to run a business (or running a "pretend business", whichever fits), and I don't think Rich is obligated to cater to them AT ALL. You're either a hobbyist who has no RIGHT to complain about FREE services, or your a legitimate business who should have MANY other sales outlets besides a FREE service, and therefore no NEED to complain.

Either way, no complaining... I think that's obvious.

 

[Wraith]

Yeah, I mean EVERY small business owner should basically be categorizing all of their expenditures that have anything to do with getting their name or product in front of someone as an Advertising expense. Business cards, flyers, mass emailing services (legitimate ones), letterhead, premium advertisements (Google AdWords, etc), you name it...

A real business (or even a successful "hobby") would be paying the taxes owed to the IRS for their sales. Since most people are doing this kind of stuff "under the table" you can't expect them to want to be bothered with claiming expenditures if they ain't even filing the paperwork with the IRS for the income they are making off the business and/or hobby in the first place.

 

[WebSlave]

A real business (or even a successful "hobby") would be paying the taxes owed to the IRS for their sales. Since most people are doing this kind of stuff "under the table" you can't expect them to want to be bothered with claiming expenditures if they ain't even filing the paperwork with the IRS for the income they are making off the business and/or hobby in the first place.

Actually, unless all of your sales are local or at shows you travel to and you only accept cash, then there are money paper trails all over the place pointing to you, and you had BEST be declaring that income when you file your taxes. If anyone believes that the IRS can't get access to their PayPal accounts, well, you better hope your name never comes up in the "audit lottery".

 

[Mister Internet]

A real business (or even a successful "hobby") would be paying the taxes owed to the IRS for their sales. Since most people are doing this kind of stuff "under the table" you can't expect them to want to be bothered with claiming expenditures if they ain't even filing the paperwork with the IRS for the income they are making off the business and/or hobby in the first place.

Don't even get me started... I hate tax cheats worse than I hate anti-vaccination zealots. And I really hate anti-vaccination zealots.

I just never would have guessed that the (perceived, not actual) disruption of a FREE service would throw so many "businesses" into a tizzy.

"So wait, you mean you can't create a business name, collect money for goods or services, and NOT claim it on your taxes? That's why I didn't incorporate, so it would be legal to not pay taxes on anything I make! It's called a Sole Proprietorship, and it means you don't have to pay any business taxes..." (actually had someone say that to me once)

 

[Southern Wolf]

Don't even get me started... I hate tax cheats worse than I hate anti-vaccination zealots. And I really hate anti-vaccination zealots.

I just never would have guessed that the (perceived, not actual) disruption of a FREE service would throw so many "businesses" into a tizzy.

"So wait, you mean you can't create a business name, collect money for goods or services, and NOT claim it on your taxes? That's why I didn't incorporate, so it would be legal to not pay taxes on anything I make! It's called a Sole Proprietorship, and it means you don't have to pay any business taxes..." (actually had someone say that to me once)

As far as I know... Im the only one that was talking about being a business.... and I am.... I DO file everything on my taxes and I claim all income. I have an accountant that does my business/personal taxes.

So if your slinging mud my way... you might want to prepair for the backsplatter.

 

[DAND]

And the even FUNNIER part is that these folks are sanctimoniously referring to themselves as "businesses" who "depend" on this free service.

Yep, it's the "I'm a business therefore gimme, gimme, gimme, free, free, free!")

Everyone that's complained in this thread should be THANKING Rich for making this site a more pleasant place to be.

Agreed!!! This site as a whole at the "free" level is not enough some. Why? I really don't have an idea. I must have missed the memo where it states Rich is required to provide anything and everything for free.

 

[Gloryhound]

"So wait, you mean you can't create a business name, collect money for goods or services, and NOT claim it on your taxes? That's why I didn't incorporate, so it would be legal to not pay taxes on anything I make! It's called a Sole Proprietorship, and it means you don't have to pay any business taxes..." (actually had someone say that to me once)

Regardless of having a business name or not, if you sell stuff at a yard sale and sell more than a given dollar value (don't remember it off the top of my head) your supposed to claim taxes on it.

Actually probably 90% of the people on here claiming to be a reptile breeder business, if they kept good records and receipts, would end up with a tax deduction at the end of the year. Lets face it, while yes you can make money in reptiles, most of us put more into it than we get out of it. It takes 5 to 10 years before most people that are serious about it start to see a profit. The people with the highest profit margins are re-sellers, they are not paying to raise up babies and make breeders, upkeep on breeders, they buy wholesale, and sale at retail. In the end a re-seller may invest $20 or $30 in an animal they paid $100 for and sell it for $200 to $300.

Agreed!!! This site as a whole at the "free" level is not enough for some. Why? I really don't have an idea. I must have missed the memo where it states Rich is required to provide anything and everything for free.

You didn't get the top secret clique memo again?