The NY Gecko
New member
wrote a care guide for leos and tried to dispell a few common myths about them. I want input from everyone here and wether theres anything you'd like to add to it.
Ok, this is for all new and existing leo owners. I've noticed alot of BS and misinformation and it seems to spread like wildfire. I'm going to list as many as I can and set it straight. This is going to be a long post, dont skim through and miss something and flame me.
1.Pinkies are harmful and/or dangerous to leos- False, pinkies arent harmful unless used improperly. Heres is an example
-A breeder has several females that are breeding and/or recovering. He decides that during the season he'll give them each 1 pinkie every 2 weeks during breeding and once a month thereafter. This is fine, more than that can cause large fat deposits to build up in the liver and around the body. Thats not what you want. A diet high in fat isnt good for a primarily insectivorous reptile. The amount stated is fine for females, the same can be done for subadults still growing but are at a size that can handle a pinkie. Males or adult females not breeding can be given one once a month/every other month. And while these are acceptable parameters I'm not saying you have to do it, but if you wanna use pinkies this is safe. In another thread someone said the bones can puncture internal organs. This is also false. When most mammals are born via a birth canal they don't have true bones yet. Their bones are actually cartilege(sp). This is to provide a little flexibility so that the newborn can pass the cervix and birth canal easier than if it was made of rigid bone.
#2- Mealworms are harmful to leos and can cause impaction- Again, this is false. Mealworms have been used for years by hobbyists and breeders alike. The large amount of chitin in the exoskeleton is where this myth usually comes from. Leos are insectivores and live in some of the most hospitable deserts there are. The insects they eat for dinner are alot tougher than what we have here. There is also the rumor that mealworms can eat their way out of the predator. This probably came from a startled keeper that found mealworms munching on a now dead but what appeared to be healthy animal. In all reality the animal most likely died from some other cause and any mealworms that escaped from their dish simply found the carcass as a source of protein.
#3-Leos live on sand- Well this one is a subject open to ALOT of debate. And thats evident in all the posts here where an innocent thread with pics becomes a flame fest about sand. Leos do live on sand. But it is hard packed and almost clay like. They dont live in your typical sahara sand. And while I kept my leos on sand for years with no problems I stopped using it for one reason, after awhile it gets ugly and a pain in the arse to clean. I would still use it if I didnt find carpeting easy and attractive. Sand can be used and it looks really nice but its a pain and I will admit that its not safe for hatchling-juveniles up to 6". At the 6" mark I find it safe to house leos on sand. Alot of other keepers feel the same way, including Tremper. Its all about preference. I warn against it for any leo under 6" for fear of impaction and then maybe death if its severe.
#3- Leos at 50g are healthy enough to breed. This is kinda true. Its something that seems to work. However, theres a kink in it. While 50g is a good weight there are other factors that you must take into consideration before breeding. Just because the female is at that 50g mark doesn't make her ready to breed. She must be healthy. An animal that is obeses and 50g is worse than a healthy animal at 45g. Its about overall health of the animal, not just weight.
#4- All about wax worms. Wax worms are okay as an occasional treat, but theyre really not necessary. Leos tend to get addicted to them and may refuse anything else you offer for awhile afterwards. You can get by without having to use them. They also lack just about any nutrition what so ever. A safer alternative is super worms or silk worms. You can offer more variety to the animals and give them proper nutrition
#5-UV light. Anytime you hear that you need to suplement leos with ultra violet light disregard it. Even if a vet says its necessary you can be sure they don't know what theyre talking about. The members of the Eublepharines as a whole are nocturnal for the most part. This includes African Fat Tailed geckos. They come out at night and hunt for bugs. And where does UV light come from? The sun? And whats not out at night? The Sun. UV, not necessary.
#6- Supplements. ALL leos need calcium supplemented in their diets. Without calcium the animal develops what is called MBD or metabolic bone disease. Another name for this nasty little problem is hypocalcemia. Basically if the animal doesnt recieve calcium the bones become all rubbery and deformed. Some of you may know what I'm talking about. You've probably seen pictures of animals that have kinked spines, and overbite, or other bone deformities. For all reptiles the correct calcium to phosphorous ratio is a minimum of 2:1. For every gram of phosphorous there should be 2 grams of calcium is what I'm saying. Juveniles who should be fed daily need calium on all their food until adulthood. The same goes for breeding females who develop eggs. Non breeding adults can be given calcium supplementation with every other meal. Along with calcium animals need multi-vitamins. This includes all the other things like beta carotene(converted into vitamin A since vitamin A is dangerous to give directly and over dose is very likely and dangerous). Stay away from all in ones however. These contain both vitamins and calcium BUT its possible to overdose the animal on the other vitamins when used as your "everyday duster".
#7- Its okay to give a leo just one food item as a staple. I'm not gunna sit here and say its bad, but its not a real good idea. Heres an example. Imagine for the rest of your life, everyday, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, that all you could have was hamburgers. Would get pretty old wouldnt it? Some people wonder why their geckos stop eating. Theyre prolly sick of what your giving them, mix it up for a change. If all you use is crickets, buy a can of mealworms and have at it. And the same is vice versa. While these 2 items are awesome to use variety will definitely help. Me, I like to switch it up even more and offer a pinkie every once in awhile or superworms. Even better is to get ahold of lobster roaches or silkworms to give them even more variety. Be imaginative and give your little guys some variety.
From here I'm going to do some facts for new owners looking for care tips.
Use under tank heating pads, dont use lights. While the ambient air temperature may be in the 90's that doesn't mean the floor of the cage, where the leo is, is the same temperature. Just stick with and undertank heater, get a thermostat and set taht sucker in the low 90's. 90-93 is fine. Get a humidity hide or spray down the substrate underneath their hide box as well. This will help shedding and prevent pieces of skin from sticking to toes, drying out, constricting, and cutting the poor things toe tips off. Leos need a hide at each end of the enclosure. This lets them thermoregulate from warm to cool and to maintain stable body temps. Keep a waterbowl in the cool end at all times. This is for two reasons. It gives them a source of water and keeping it in the cool end will keep the humidity from rising. If you plan on breeding you need to have a lay box filled with damp vermiculite or some sort of material for the female to lay her eggs. If she doesnt ahve anywhere to lay them a few things can happen. She could drop them anywhere in the cage and that will usually result in the eggs dieing. She can retain them and become eggbound which usually requires surgery to fix. Or she could reabsorb them back into her body and then the stress put on her body from developing eggs is wasted. To get females out of your eggs incubate between 81-83. For males 87-89. To get an equal mix incubate at 85 degrees. The incubation medium should be damp but not wet enough where you can squeeze water from it.
I think I've covered 99% of what I set out to do, but no guide is perfect. Questions are welcome and I'll answer the best I can.
Tom
Ok, this is for all new and existing leo owners. I've noticed alot of BS and misinformation and it seems to spread like wildfire. I'm going to list as many as I can and set it straight. This is going to be a long post, dont skim through and miss something and flame me.
1.Pinkies are harmful and/or dangerous to leos- False, pinkies arent harmful unless used improperly. Heres is an example
-A breeder has several females that are breeding and/or recovering. He decides that during the season he'll give them each 1 pinkie every 2 weeks during breeding and once a month thereafter. This is fine, more than that can cause large fat deposits to build up in the liver and around the body. Thats not what you want. A diet high in fat isnt good for a primarily insectivorous reptile. The amount stated is fine for females, the same can be done for subadults still growing but are at a size that can handle a pinkie. Males or adult females not breeding can be given one once a month/every other month. And while these are acceptable parameters I'm not saying you have to do it, but if you wanna use pinkies this is safe. In another thread someone said the bones can puncture internal organs. This is also false. When most mammals are born via a birth canal they don't have true bones yet. Their bones are actually cartilege(sp). This is to provide a little flexibility so that the newborn can pass the cervix and birth canal easier than if it was made of rigid bone.
#2- Mealworms are harmful to leos and can cause impaction- Again, this is false. Mealworms have been used for years by hobbyists and breeders alike. The large amount of chitin in the exoskeleton is where this myth usually comes from. Leos are insectivores and live in some of the most hospitable deserts there are. The insects they eat for dinner are alot tougher than what we have here. There is also the rumor that mealworms can eat their way out of the predator. This probably came from a startled keeper that found mealworms munching on a now dead but what appeared to be healthy animal. In all reality the animal most likely died from some other cause and any mealworms that escaped from their dish simply found the carcass as a source of protein.
#3-Leos live on sand- Well this one is a subject open to ALOT of debate. And thats evident in all the posts here where an innocent thread with pics becomes a flame fest about sand. Leos do live on sand. But it is hard packed and almost clay like. They dont live in your typical sahara sand. And while I kept my leos on sand for years with no problems I stopped using it for one reason, after awhile it gets ugly and a pain in the arse to clean. I would still use it if I didnt find carpeting easy and attractive. Sand can be used and it looks really nice but its a pain and I will admit that its not safe for hatchling-juveniles up to 6". At the 6" mark I find it safe to house leos on sand. Alot of other keepers feel the same way, including Tremper. Its all about preference. I warn against it for any leo under 6" for fear of impaction and then maybe death if its severe.
#3- Leos at 50g are healthy enough to breed. This is kinda true. Its something that seems to work. However, theres a kink in it. While 50g is a good weight there are other factors that you must take into consideration before breeding. Just because the female is at that 50g mark doesn't make her ready to breed. She must be healthy. An animal that is obeses and 50g is worse than a healthy animal at 45g. Its about overall health of the animal, not just weight.
#4- All about wax worms. Wax worms are okay as an occasional treat, but theyre really not necessary. Leos tend to get addicted to them and may refuse anything else you offer for awhile afterwards. You can get by without having to use them. They also lack just about any nutrition what so ever. A safer alternative is super worms or silk worms. You can offer more variety to the animals and give them proper nutrition
#5-UV light. Anytime you hear that you need to suplement leos with ultra violet light disregard it. Even if a vet says its necessary you can be sure they don't know what theyre talking about. The members of the Eublepharines as a whole are nocturnal for the most part. This includes African Fat Tailed geckos. They come out at night and hunt for bugs. And where does UV light come from? The sun? And whats not out at night? The Sun. UV, not necessary.
#6- Supplements. ALL leos need calcium supplemented in their diets. Without calcium the animal develops what is called MBD or metabolic bone disease. Another name for this nasty little problem is hypocalcemia. Basically if the animal doesnt recieve calcium the bones become all rubbery and deformed. Some of you may know what I'm talking about. You've probably seen pictures of animals that have kinked spines, and overbite, or other bone deformities. For all reptiles the correct calcium to phosphorous ratio is a minimum of 2:1. For every gram of phosphorous there should be 2 grams of calcium is what I'm saying. Juveniles who should be fed daily need calium on all their food until adulthood. The same goes for breeding females who develop eggs. Non breeding adults can be given calcium supplementation with every other meal. Along with calcium animals need multi-vitamins. This includes all the other things like beta carotene(converted into vitamin A since vitamin A is dangerous to give directly and over dose is very likely and dangerous). Stay away from all in ones however. These contain both vitamins and calcium BUT its possible to overdose the animal on the other vitamins when used as your "everyday duster".
#7- Its okay to give a leo just one food item as a staple. I'm not gunna sit here and say its bad, but its not a real good idea. Heres an example. Imagine for the rest of your life, everyday, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, that all you could have was hamburgers. Would get pretty old wouldnt it? Some people wonder why their geckos stop eating. Theyre prolly sick of what your giving them, mix it up for a change. If all you use is crickets, buy a can of mealworms and have at it. And the same is vice versa. While these 2 items are awesome to use variety will definitely help. Me, I like to switch it up even more and offer a pinkie every once in awhile or superworms. Even better is to get ahold of lobster roaches or silkworms to give them even more variety. Be imaginative and give your little guys some variety.
From here I'm going to do some facts for new owners looking for care tips.
Use under tank heating pads, dont use lights. While the ambient air temperature may be in the 90's that doesn't mean the floor of the cage, where the leo is, is the same temperature. Just stick with and undertank heater, get a thermostat and set taht sucker in the low 90's. 90-93 is fine. Get a humidity hide or spray down the substrate underneath their hide box as well. This will help shedding and prevent pieces of skin from sticking to toes, drying out, constricting, and cutting the poor things toe tips off. Leos need a hide at each end of the enclosure. This lets them thermoregulate from warm to cool and to maintain stable body temps. Keep a waterbowl in the cool end at all times. This is for two reasons. It gives them a source of water and keeping it in the cool end will keep the humidity from rising. If you plan on breeding you need to have a lay box filled with damp vermiculite or some sort of material for the female to lay her eggs. If she doesnt ahve anywhere to lay them a few things can happen. She could drop them anywhere in the cage and that will usually result in the eggs dieing. She can retain them and become eggbound which usually requires surgery to fix. Or she could reabsorb them back into her body and then the stress put on her body from developing eggs is wasted. To get females out of your eggs incubate between 81-83. For males 87-89. To get an equal mix incubate at 85 degrees. The incubation medium should be damp but not wet enough where you can squeeze water from it.
I think I've covered 99% of what I set out to do, but no guide is perfect. Questions are welcome and I'll answer the best I can.
Tom
