Caswell Herps - Nick Caswell -- Beware

[Reptayls]

Nick Caswell - aka Caswell Herps; aka Sumitt City Reptiles - is not the best source to buy herps from.

The story:
Nick had bearded dragons advertised, for trade or sale. We offered a trade, then when he found something else that he wanted more - he wanted to just sell. We agreed on a price.

The emails went back and forth, and he kept going out of town on the weekends. He couldn't give me an amount for shipping, told me he didn't have a UPS account (didn't ship enough). I should have used common sense and known there was something amiss with that bit of information.

Wanting to give Nick the benefit of the doubt, and make it easy on him - I decided to send plenty of funds for shipping - an extra $50. Since we were dealing with Paypal - I figured he could refund the overage.

The day for shipping came and he left town and told his Mom to do it. She called me in a panic, explaining that her 16 yr old son left her to pack the reptiles. I should have called it off right then.

But instead, I walked her through the packaging process and told her to go to Airborne since she did not have a UPS account. Long story short - she ended up shipping via the Post Office.

She called me numerous times during the packing - and several times after shipping. She couldn't postpone shipping - because of her work schedule. She told me that she insured the package too (at my expense? - how nice).

The next day:
The animals didn't arrive and she got very upset. She called me several times and called the post office. Not a big surprise - the package took 2 days instead of overnight, and the Post Office promised to refund all postage. I was told that, she was told that - it was a no brainer.

Then after we finally got the animals, she suddenly mentions that she had to buy a box - had to buy sacks to ship them in (I told her to get old pillowcases - she bought new ones). Suddenly there is a fee that Paypal charges!! Yes... we all know about that. It seems she now wants to deduct all these things from our $50 refund.

I emailed them (Nick and Lori) to remind them that the sale was for "x" amount of dollars - and no other charges. I asked that we be sent the $50.00 refund.

Amazing.... no answers to our emails since!
No refund either.... hmmm.

Yes - we have all the emails to document everything - if you need to see them. But this is primarily to warn folks that you might not get the deal you expected when dealing with Nick.

Gayle Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.
Salem, Oregon

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Definitely post the Email exchange but this type of thing happens way too often lately. Sounds like another kid in over his head with delusions of grandeur.

I have to say that making his mom ship the animals is a new twist though. Definitely gives you a big shot of confidence in his business skills.

 

[redwolf2]

WHAT!?

Nick Caswell??? I dont beleive that! There has to be a more reasonable explaination. I have delt with Nick in the past at shows in Indianapolis and that he really knows what he is doing! He is also very fair with prices and has well represented animals. I bought some het. amel Fat-tailed Geckos from him and they are doing really good. I personally recomend him and also I feel that alot of problems accure in the mail.

I will continue to do business with him because he is very trustworthy and fair!

James West

 

[Reptayls]

James,

He may be okay to do business with in person - but via internet it's different.

You don't know what transpired - but we plan to post the emails. You will see how this was handled - very unprofessionally at the very least. Nick went off on a fishing trip and left his mother to ship the animals. His mother admitted to me that Nick didn't even have a box or a company to ship with.

On top of exerything else - she wants me to pay for the box and sacks to ship the lizards in - AFTER the sale. Last Friday (July 16), I sent an email stating that tacking on extra charges after the fact was unacceptable. The email was ignored.

This morning - I did get a response - but from his Mother - not Nick. She is still saying we should get only a part refund due to the box and extra charges. And she says she can't mail a check until next week... ??? Next week? A check??? What happened to the Paypal account?

Is this good business practice?
We don't think so.

Gayle & Morgana Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.

 

[geckoville]

Details

I'll start off by saying that I have done business with Nick and lori in the past, selling, trading, and buying, all with no problems.
Now, do I think that you are entitled to a full refund? Not necessarily, and here's why:
Did the price that was agreed upon include shipping, or was shipping extra? The normal amount charged for shipping these days is $40-$45 depending on the size of the box and the location of the buyer. Included in that price is the seller's expenses for the packaging materials, not everyone has old sacks or pillow cases laying around that they want to part with. Boxes aren't cheap either, usually $2-4.
Since the package was shipped via USPS Next Day Air and it didn't arrive until two days later, the Post Office will refund the shipping cost. You said that you sent $50 to cover the shipping costs, not sure where you are located, but I'm going to assume that the charges for a larger box used for dragons ran around $35. Now figure in the cost of the box and other packaging materials at around $8. So $43 to ship your dragons. The dragons arrived a day late, so now you get back the actual shipping cost plus the few dollars left over after buying the proper shipping supplies ($8 for supplies in this scenario).
As for the PayPal fees- it is stated in their terms of agreement when you sign up for a PayPal account that any and all fees incured are the responsibility of the seller. Its the price we pay for the convenience. It also isn't possible to refund a portion of a payment through PayPal, you have to complete another transaction resulting in another fee to PayPal. So now do you pay the fee or wait a couple of extra days for a check, minus the cost of the packaging materials?

One last thing before ending this novel, did the dragons arrive well packaged, in good health, and as described?

My 2 cents,
Uriah Walker

 

[Reptayls]

Let us post the emails... before you folks go to their defense.

We simply asked for a refund of the $50 that we sent for shipping - and we were refused.

Again, let us post the emails...... I have got to get some orders out today. Be back shortly and you will see!

Gayle & Morgana Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.

 

[geckoville]

summary

Here's my last post in a shorter, easier to read format:
$50 sent to cover shipping
$35 shipping cost
$8 tangible materials for shipping (non refundable)

Refundable:
$35 shipping cost
$7 over payment

Honestly, if they arrived ok I'd be happly with just the shipping cost refunded and write off the $15 for Lori's troubles getting them out to you, its still less than if they had arrived on time.

Credit to you for talking her through the shipping process in her son's absence. Airborne though? They're not even supposed to knowingly accept live animals for shipment, account or not. And UPS requires a special authorization from the regional manager prior to shipping. USPS does accept live harmless reptiles if the box is properly marked. But I'm sure you already knew all of this.

Can't wait for the email postings
Uriah Walker

 

[Reptayls]

The emails

These are the emails:

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: bearded vs panther chams
To: [email protected]

Hi Nick,
We saw your ad on Fauna where you were wanting to trade some bearded dragons for adult breeder panthers. We have numerous pairs of panthers, including the very blue nosy be bloodline - however, we have no ambilobe for trade at this time. Are you still wanting to trade off your 1.3 beardeds? Could you send photos of them if you are.
Thanks,
Morgana Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.
Salem, OR


Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 22:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>

hi i am willing to trade still. they are all proven for me! the one citrus has lost her foot in a breeding accident that wasnt in my care but in the breeder that i purchesed her from. the hypo has a kinked/nipped tail. and the other two are perfect. could i see a pic of your panthers? thanks
nick caswell

Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 07:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Hi Nick,
I am going to take some pictures of "pairs" this weekend for you.
You wanted adults or close to breeding age, right?
What kind of price are you considering for your 1.3 group? What ages are they? Are all 3 females producing with the male?
Morgana
Reptayls, Ltd

Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:36:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>

yes i was wanting pretty close to adults. ALL females are proven to the same male and accually produced all to gether almost 175 eggs last season. i was looking to get $xxx for the group. the ages of the females are roughly around 3-4 years. when i bought them the person i bought them from told me that they were a little over a year old. let me know if you are still interested in them. thanks
nick caswell

Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 22:31:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Nick,
Yeah... still interested, although Kingsnake has a lot of producing adults for like $xxx each right now. Seems a lot of breeders are changing to other herps.... Hopefully I can get some pictures of chams for you tomorrow.
Morgana
Reptayls, Ltd.

Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 00:21:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>

well make me an offer. let me know. thanks
nick caswell

Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:24:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Nick,
We have a large blue bar ambanja that cost us $xxx last fall - is LTC and a great breeder. You can see his picture (still up on seller's website) if you go to this link: xxxx
We have a virgin female (the latest one purchased to pair with him) she is about 11 months. Would you be interested in these as a trade?
Morgana
Reptayls, Ltd.

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 09:00:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Nick,
Hope you had a good holiday.
Have you thought anymore about the bearded trade? We have nosy be (ABR blue bloodlines) we can offer too - if the ambanja idea isn't to your liking. Let me know what your thoughts are.
Morgana Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.
503.856.8950

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 11:59:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>

hi i accually found a guy that is selling hes ambilobe male. if you are interested in the bearded dragons i can sell you the group for $400 as you said they are going for $100 on kingsnake. i dont have money to pay for the ambilobe so i have to sell the dragons rather than trading. let me know what you think. if you want lone females i will sell them seperately for $125ea. let me know what you think. thanks
nick caswell

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 12:54:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Hi Nick,
Could you give me weights and measurements on all 4 of the dragons?
We have been shopping over the weekend... purchased some nice babies too, got a few other adults. However, we were sorta counting on getting your group to round out the breeding colony. I think we can swing the cash sale... but I want to run it past hubby tonight - just to be sure. Will let you know as soon as we discuss it.
Who did you find the panther male with? You really ... (not pertinent)..... too.

Talk soon,
Morgana
Reptayls, Ltd.

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 14:11:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>

hi the silver glow female is 17" and weighs 320g. the hypo female is 16" and weighs 290g. the male is 16.5" and weighs 298g. the citrus female is little over 16" and weighs 312g. let me know what goes down. these are really good breeders i still have eggs in the incubator from them from last month. hope it here from you soon. you can also call me (xx)xxx-xxxx. leave a message if i am not here i have to run some erins. thanks
nick caswell

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 21:58:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Hi again Nick,
Hubby agreed - we will buy the beardeds for $400.
You are guaranteeing healthy animals and all that - right?
I understand about the foot and the tail nips.... but other than that, they are guaranteed, correct?
Now... do you want me to send money to Paypal? You need to give me the account again. We will be having you ship them to the UPS hub (I pick up early am), so you need to figure out the shipping to area code 97303 (non-residential).
Let me know what next.... and when you think you can ship.
Morgana
Reptayls, Ltd.

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 07:55:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Nick....
Tried to PM you on Fauna last night - but you have PM’s blocked.
So.... do you want this cash today??? I need your paypal addy.
Morgana Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:30:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>

Hi if you want to send the money today thats fine the account is xxxxxxxxxxxx but if you dont want to that fine. i probably wont be able to ship until monday or wednesday but most likely it will be monday. as far as shipping goes i dont know how much it will be. im just taking a guess it will be about $35-$40. i couldnt figure out how much it would be on the UPS site. and another thing it is kinda hot here in indiana its almost always around 85 do you think that i will be needing a cold pack i believe that i would most sertainly think that we need one. let me know what you think. thank you!
Nick Caswell

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 18:13:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Great...
Look forward to the new pics.
Lucky you that you sold all the babies so easily.
~Morgana
Reptalyls, Ltd.

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:34:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded vs panther chams
To: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>

i almost forgot the pics...sorry!
nick caswell
ps that is their everyday color when they are fired up they are very bright. when i had them down on the floor the male went nuts and was wanting to breed!

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:57:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Hi Nick,
Okay... they don't look too thin from egg production - just had to check.
You never answered me about the UPS account - and how you plan to ship. If you don't label the box "live animals" it is likely to get tossed around. I knew a guy who did that - the animal died. How are you planning to pack these guys?
You also didn't answer about your guarantee.... I need to know if you are extending a health guarantee on these guys.... can you refund if there is a loss in the group?
Yes, I would add a cool-pack - just in case. It is not that warm in Oregon currently but you don't know about the stops along the way. If they ship at night tho... it shouldn't be bad. I always pick up by 8 am.
Just the fine print - but it needs to be discussed.
Morgana
Reptayls, Ltd.

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 00:21:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded
To: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>

um i dont think i ship enough to need an account. i will do UPS and i do know about marking the box live harmless reptiles. my friend that works in the post office said that most of the time anything live is the first priority! yes i will put a 30 day guarantee on them but if it isnt my fault that they died i cant refund but i dont think i have to worry about that with you guys! i was going to pic up a cardboard box at walmart and then line it with some stuff that will keep it from smushing. also i will put them in a cloth sack with newspaper. let me know if you want to do something different. thanks
nick caswell

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 07:28:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Hi Nick,
The health guarantee is fine... and of course it wouldn't apply if not your fault.
UPS is getting strict... refusing to accept shipments from folks shipping live animals unless they have an approved account for such shipping. We ran into that way back when I switched from Airborne... so we got set up with the proper account by sending paperwork to UPS corporate offices - and they approved us for shipping animals.
Lots of times on the herp forums - you see folks who are talking about not being able to ship with UPS due to the new rules. If you should have a problem - you can ship with Airborne. They don't have such strict rules. But that means I will have to provide you with 2 shipping addresses - one for UPS and one for Airborne.
Shipping them in sacks makes the most sense. We ship uromastyx; skinks; and extra large chameleons that way. Be sure to use plenty of shredded newspaper - they think it is a burrowing den. A friend of ours goes to Goodwill and gets old pillowcases even!
So... are you ready for your ambilobe????
Morgana
Reptayls, Ltd.

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 08:01:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded
To: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>

ok that sounds great! i am ready for him i just dont have the money present for it. it has a brother for sale also and vincent said that if one of them sells the other one is going to be taken offline. i really do want him but i dont like the fact that im going to pay $xxx for him. im on my way out the door and i wont be home until sunday. thanks and have a great weekend!

nick caswell

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:36:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded
To: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>

hi ok im back. i can ship them out tomorrow if you would like. but i would need the money tonight or tomorrow morning. let me know if you are still interested in them. thanks
nick caswell

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:06:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Hi Nick,
Will be sending $450.00 to your Paypal... this should cover the shipping.
Be sure to send me the carrier & tracking number....
If shipping via UPS overnight - send to this address:
Reptayls, Ltd.
phone - xxxxxxxxxxxx
c/o UPS Customer Counter
1685 Salem Industrial Dr NE
Salem, OR 97303
If shipping via other overnight carrier - send to this address:
Reptayls, Ltd.
phone - xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Salem, OR 97305

Morgana
Reptayls, Ltd.

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 11:02:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Nick,
Are you shipping the beardies today??? The funds were sent last night.
Morgana - Reptayls, Ltd.


Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:33:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded
To: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>

Hi they were shipped out yesterday the person said that it would be there by 3pm today. the tracking number is ED xxxxxxxxxUS. please let me know how they are when you receive them. thank you very much!
Nick Caswell

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:04:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Fwd: USPS Shipment Info for EDxx xxxx xxxU S
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Lori,
Print this and show it to the folks at the post office. You/We are entitled to a full refund - for failure to deliver as promised. Looks like it sat in Indiana for a whole day.

USPS_Track_&_Confirm_ <[email protected]> wrote:
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:45:57 -0500 (CDT)
To: [email protected]
From: USPS_Track_&_Confirm_
Subject: USPS Shipment Info for EDxx xxxx xxxU S
Track & Confirm update provided by the U.S. Postal Service, 07/16/04
Label Number: EDxx xxxx xxxU S
Service Type: Express Mail - Post Office to Addressee
Shipment Activity Location Date & Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DELIVERED SALEM OR 97305 07/16/04 11:31am
TO: M CALVERT
ARRIVAL AT UNIT SALEM OR 97303 07/16/04 7:32am
ENROUTE SALEM OR 97301 07/16/04 3:08am
NROUTE PORTLAND OR 97238 07/15/04 10:55pm
ENROUTE INDIANAPOLIS IN 46251 07/14/04 10:01pm
ENROUTE FORT WAYNE IN 46802 07/14/04 4:44pm
ACCEPTANCE SAINT MARYS IN 46808 07/14/04 4:23pm
Reminder: Track & Confirm by email
Date of email request: 07/15/04

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded dragons
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Lori,
In the earlier phone call... you said something about extra charges.
The agreement with Nick was $xxx plus shipping - only. There was no mention of box charge or charge for shipping materials - or anything else. I sent $xxx because Nick didn't know how much the shipping would be and I didn't want him to run short on funds to ship.

I understand now that you are not a reptile business - even though Nick advertises as "Summit City Reptiles" and "Caswell Herps". At the same time, we don't want to take the brunt of things because of this. You admitted that you sold animals before and shipped them - then you should be aware that Paypal charges a fee for every dollar collected on your behalf. These fees plus shipping materials are part of the cost of any sale - unless otherwise specified.

Putting the shoe on the other foot - we expect to pay for all those things out of every sale! We buy special reptile shipping boxes, and many shipping containers. These special things cost a lot more than you might think - but it is just part of doing business.

I almost cancelled the sale because of the lack of shipping experience - and the fact that there was such a risk. But after talking to you - I figured you planned to do the very best you could. You did a good job packing them - but for future knowledge - we would never ship an animal in such a thin box (65# wall). By the grace of unseen hands, the animals were not harmed.

However, the shipping was not as agreed - overnight, which is what we paid for. The Post Office must refund the shipping charges to you for their failure. Therefore, as we see it, we are entitled to a refund of $50.00 through Paypal (and yes, they will take a fee from us for this payment). We see no reason for delay, and will watch for the notice from Paypal.

Thanks again and best regards,
Morgana Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:32:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Reptayls, Ltd." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bearded
To: "nick caswell" <[email protected]>

Nick and Lori Caswell,
We have not heard back from you or received our $50.00 refund and there is no acceptable reason for this. You are holding onto money that is not rightfully yours, and we have no idea why you are treating us so unfairly, but this is certainly not right.

You leave us no choice but to file a Buyer's Complaint with Paypal to start the payment reversal process. The entire amount will be charged back to your account and bank through our credit card company. Then we will re-submit the corrected payment to you.

These actions can only be stopped if the refund is sent to our account within 48 hours.

This business transaction will also be reported to the B.O.I., but then perhaps you don't care.

Reptayls, Ltd.
Salem, Oregon

----- ----- whew!!!

Gayle & Morgana Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.

 

[Reptayls]

Geckoville,

I hope you can see from the emails that we tried to conduct a pleasant business transaction.

Things went along fairly well until the day came to ship the animals. Honestly, I wish now that I would have cancelled the deal and just taken the flack that would have come from it. I spent the better part of my day explaining how to pack an animal! And there was no cool packs used either.

But since Nick really wanted to sell them (and he had been trying for 10 months), I wanted to help out. The animals themselves are just normal beardies - with a lot of battle scars - nothing exceptional. To be honest, I could have saved money if I would have bought locally. He backed out of the trade - but I didn't back out of the sale.

BTW - we got a response from Lori today - saying that I am "getting hatey" with her - and yes - she still wants to deduct all these miscellaneous charges. Then claims she will send a check next week.

The bottom line = that was not the deal!

How would you like it if you gave me $20 to go to the store and get you some milk. Along the way, I spent part of the money on other things (gas for my car; insurance for my car; shoes for my feet; sunglasses so I could drive in the sunshine). When I return, I hand you the gallon of milk and out of state check for the $2.50 change? Hey, the rest was related expenses.... be thankful you got the milk - right????

-------------------------
Gayle & Morgana Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.

 

[geckoville]

Ok then, I did get enjoyment out of your selective editing, not sure exactly what the point of that was, but it did make the mind wonder. From what you have posted here the transaction was going fairly well and both parties were working with each other to complete the transaction.
There were several things that could have been done differently by both parties to avoid this whole thing. However I'm not going to get into it because it would be a mute point, what's done is done.
You should get a refund minus the cost of shipping materials. Everyone estimates their shipping fees to buyers $5-8 above the actual shipping charge to cover such expenses (sometimes that doesn't even cover it), and if something should happen to the shipment then the refund is the actual shipping charge. If you can get the Post Office or UPS to pay for your box and such, more power to you.
I do hope that this whole situation comes out ok and do keep us all posted. Hopefully Nick will come on here and share his side as well.

"Visit a show and get what you pay for,
Buy online and pay for what you get"
Uriah Walker

 

[Reptayls]

Tina,

My selective editing was mainly to protect phone numbers and other data that Nick and I discussed (off topic) which no one else needs to know. I hope that clears that up.

Anyone can claim to have 20/20 hindsight... but I doubt that anyone would have done much too differently than we did. If someone has psychic abilities and knows what other people are thinking and going to do next - I am sure they are not reading these posts!

We have been buying and selling herps on the internet for 5 years, and not everyone charges for boxes! As a matter of fact only a few people we buy from do that - but they always admit (explain openly) that is what they are doing. It is up to us to accept it or not.

There is a certain amount of things that are considered to be the cost of doing business - and boxes, and basic shipping materials are often times included in that catagory. We are one of those sellers who don't pad the shipping bill. We charge our customers actual shipping costs only. If there is something unusual about the cost of shipping/packaging - it is discussed and handled BEFORE the sale is agree upon.

There was never any discussion of box charges or any other added expense before this sale was agreed to. As a matter of fact - it was the opposite. Nick stated "the selling price plus shipping" in his email.

Regardless of how you do business, we stand firm on our being entitled to a refund of $50.00. We would do exactly this for our customers, and this is how we want to be treated.

So I take it that you don't mind getting an out-of-state check (which can be stopped) for $2.50 and the gallon of milk in exchange for your $20 cash?

You didn't seem that charitable when we were inquiring to purchase some leopard geckos a few months back. Quite the opposite, you seemed to be a sharp business person. However, to be quite honest, if you would have told us that shipping charges would be other than actual - it would have most certainly ceased the sale for us. Sorry, but we seem to be on different sides of this fence.

Gayle & Morgana Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.

 

[redwolf2]

James West here,

I'm sorry but I think your taking the whole thing to far. I myself just bought 3 D. Auratus and one passed on shipment and the thier two went just earlier this morning. The poeple have a 5 Day Health for all animals and I'll get a credit for the 3 D. Auratus but the shipping doesn't get credited because it didn't say free shipping or refund on shipping. The shipping was my responsible to pay to have my breeders sent to my door.

James West

 

[ms_terese]

James, your situation is different.

In this case, the SHIPPER is getting the amount of the shipping refunded to them, and since the BUYER paid that amount, it should be returned to the BUYER. That doesn't leave the SHIPPER out any money at all, as they are keeping the money that was sent for the animals.

 

[geckoville]

Not too sure how my wife's name got brought into all this since it was never mentioned, but anyway...
The opinions posted in the above posts are just that, my opinions.
I hope the two of you can figure this mess out, good luck to you, I'm now done with this thread.

Uriah Walker

 

[Reptayls]

UPDATE....

To update the saga:

The Caswells have had plenty of time to submit a refund - partial or otherwise. It may interest those of you who thought they were 'good people' to know that this has yet to happen. Just how long does it take to send Paypal????

Not only have they refused to return emails, but they have failed to send ANY of our money back. This boils down to pure theft.

Just what we needed in the herp hobby - more thieves!!

-----------------------
Gayle and Morgana Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.

 

[redwolf2]

James West,

He may not be returning e-mail because he is on vacation. People do go on vacation in summer. I still think you are taking the whole thing to far and making very bad judgements.
I like said before had a samething as this but my breeders D.O.A they credited for the animals but not for shipping.

Shipping cost money and shipment to your door is a pevaledge and barely refunded.

I do ebay and when I pay an item and shipment. I don't get to have a refund of shipment if the package says 2.50 but I paid 5.00 for the shipping.

 

[gracie]

yes but.....

...the shipper (Nick and his mom) have the refunded shipping money and it should be returned to the buyer who originally paid for the shipping, there's no reason Nick or his mom should still have it, whether or not they need to send the whole $50 back. They are obligated to send SOMETHING back. Just my two cents

-Diana Mason

 

[Reptayls]

He may not be returning e-mail because he is on vacation. People do go on vacation in summer. I still think you are taking the whole thing to far and making very bad judgements.
I like said before had a samething as this but my breeders D.O.A they credited for the animals but not for shipping.

James,

Once again - this is much different than what happened to you! This was not about shipping being refunded due to the animal arriving dead. The Post Office refunded the shipping to the seller because the delivery was not as paid for (the post office guarantees their overnight delivery) - so it was agreed that the refund would be forwarded to us (the buyer) as it was OUR money!

Then, and only then - did the subject of "other charges" come up. It was just a way of keeping it for themselves. They may have justified it to themselves - but not to us. You don't change the rules of the game in the bottom of the ninth inning!

The bottom line = their word proved not to be good, and they have stolen our money. This is NOT making a bad judgement - it is relaying FACTS in evidence.

You wouldn't like this if it happened to you and there is no way you can convince us that you would!

--------------
Gayle and Morgana Calvert
Reptayls, Ltd.

 

[ddmadson]

Reptayls is right!

How can anyone in their right mind say that this person doesn't have a legitimate gripe here? The shipment didn't get delivered on time, the shipping company said they would refund the shipping cost yet the shipper is trying to be a scum bag and keep the money instead of giving it back. This is a no brainer and anyone that doesn't see it that way has an alterior motive. The biggest point here is that this kid relied on "mommy" to get the package out. Hello - obviously Nick Caswell could give a crap about his animals and is focusing on the money. Why else would they be nickle and diming Reptayls over a $5 box charge or whatever? Bottom line is that for the sake of maintaining a good reputation, especially after having your customer walk your mother through the process of shipping an animal, you should be the big guy not be a cheap sob. Refund the money that is rightfully due to Reptayls and eat the stupid box charge, grow up or get into something else like model trains or something.

Dennis Madson

 

[kerri4776]

all ive read i cant beleive this...lol....if the post office returned the money they should return it to you. and its not your fault that they had to buy the box and pillow cases....he should have quoted that in the beginning...and im sorry but this gets me more than anything that they want u to pay cause of pay pal charges....thats crap..im just glad the animals were not harmed. any updates on this?