Charles Ball Selling Black-headed pythons from PA Buyers Beware!

[ambrosemurphy]

Degenerated condition...

Now that ticks me off!
Those are too nice of animals to let go down hill like that.
That guy needs a serious serious talking to.{among other things}
There are people out here that revere that species.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can explain to us all how a snake can get in this condition during the very short time it was in the buyer's possession???

Baby snakes often fast for a week or two after being relocated and never come close to looking like this...I can't believe this snake EVER ate ANYTHING--failure to thrive--nature culling it out perhaps?

 

[ambrosemurphy]

Concern for the snake?

Yeah, obviously there WAS AN ISSUE the same day that the customer received the snake, regardless of your TOS and regardless of where he called you from. You obviously don't care about anything more than your bottom line, from your attitude here. I'd never buy from you, after hearing what you've had to say.

Totally agree...and unless I missed it, Charles expresses not one shred of concern about the SNAKE...geez, all the breeders I know would be ballistic over one of their babies ever coming to this condition...just another indication that this "breeder" shouldn't be breeding...MHO

 

[Tsutton5]

charles

Well if you feel that way Griz...go to a few of their sites and view the terms. My terms are pretty much down the middle. You have your own opinion like eveyone else. Once again..if you go against the terms you are on your own. Terms are not stated for you to do any thing you please. By the way, I think you are the scammer here and your opinion sucks. Terms deal with people like you who have their own opinion of what you think everyone else should think.

In this case, such is not the case! You can keep your opinion. Lets see you go to NERD and say ...Oh, my snake died today after a five days...I think I should get my money back. I probed it...."

Charles Ball

I think your terms , I for one will never buy ANYTHING from you!! How would probing and feeding a snake KILL and healthy and normal snake, I have not killed one by doing that....
LOOKS like another SCAMMER hiding behind his TOS!!!!!

 

[ambrosemurphy]

I forgot this info as well.....
The animal that Charles sent Tom wasn't even hardly half the size of his womas that hatched a month before and about 5 times smaller than the BHP's that he hatched as well. It was smaller than ANY that I've seen at Hatching. Look at the pictures Tom posted and the size of that pen. Even dead.... a BHP should be 5 times the size it is here.
Don't know what is going on with his animals but I've NEVER seen a BHP that small.
I'd be VERY wary of those animals.

Think you hit a nail on the head here...in addition to questionable/unethical business practices, I'd say he has some potential health issues with the breeders that produced this baby...I'd actually like to see necropsy results of the baby...would be most illuminating I'd think...

 

[ravensgait]

I agree with you Barry"I'd actually like to see necropsy results of the baby" be interesting to just what killed it.

Guys we may not like Charles Terms but they are his terms and if you buy you should know the terms before you send money. Not trying to defend the guy and I don't agree with his terms.

Why wasn't a call made from the airport? when was Charles notified of there being a problem?

Was this discussed over the phone or are there emails? if so post them?
Was the animal bought by Tom for himself or was he playing middle man for Derek?

The snake dieing sucks but there seems to be a whole lot we don't know about this deal..Randy

 

[Tsutton5]

randy most of those question were answered, except for why he didnt call from the airport! He called within a few hours of returning home with the snake to inform him that he wasnt satisfied, I believe most was phone conversations.... as for was he playing middle man, I dont think that has much to do with it.. JMO.

Tom

 

[ravensgait]

Tom,,,, Tom Keogan who started this thread made one post and hasn't answered any questions since that post(unless I'm missing something). There have been others who commented but the deal was with Tom and Charles. Bill asked questions that were not answered on page one and I asked questions that I haven't seen answered by the orignal poster. Hope he finds time to answer some of them soon. Randy

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Tom,,,, Tom Keogan who started this thread made one post and hasn't answered any questions since that post(unless I'm missing something). There have been others who commented but the deal was with Tom and Charles. Bill asked questions that were not answered on page one and I asked questions that I haven't seen answered by the orignal poster. Hope he finds time to answer some of them soon. Randy

If you need more information let me know. I don't have lots of time and it may be a little while between answers, so please be patient. Thanks Tom

Bill's questions-

Tom, A few facts are needed, (1) how was the snake shipped ? (2) How was the box marked ? The reason I ask about the box is, I had someone ship me a Boa with no markings (IE) Live animal or nothing, only fragile well long story short it was put in unpressurized cabin and when it was delivered it looked like that Deflated.JMO but I think this happened in shipping.

I think Bills questions are now irrelevant, knowing they were picked up at the airport.

Prices DO NOT include freight. Freight is additional and is paid by the
customer. Prices DO NOT include insurance. Insurance is required
and is the responsibility of the customer if a claim on death or
theft of the animals is hoped to be filed. All animals for sale are
honestly represented and healthy.

When receiving air freight shipments, you must open your shipments
at the airport to make sure no accidental death or theft has occurred.
If there is a problem, you must alert the airline and me immediately to
file a claim(the reason for adequate insurance). Do not dispose of any
dead animals until inspected by the airline or before receiving approval
to destroy from Charles Ball as in certain cases I may request return
of dead animals or photo documentation to assist you in the claim.
Sales are final after leaving the airport.

Randy, your questions-

Why wasn't a call made from the airport? when was Charles notified of there being a problem?

Was this discussed over the phone or are there emails? if so post them?
Was the animal bought by Tom for himself or was he playing middle man for Derek?

The snake dieing sucks but there seems to be a whole lot we don't know about this deal..Randy

Charles mentioned in one of his responses to Derek that yes indeed, Tom waited to call from home. As to how long before the first notification, I don't think it was posted. I don't see why, if Tom was a middleman, it matters. Maybe, I’m being short-sided and missing something.

 

[Tsutton5]

I agree

Tom,,,, Tom Keogan who started this thread made one post and hasn't answered any questions since that post(unless I'm missing something). There have been others who commented but the deal was with Tom and Charles. Bill asked questions that were not answered on page one and I asked questions that I haven't seen answered by the orignal poster. Hope he finds time to answer some of them soon. Randy

Randy, you are correct the answers were not answered by Tom K. but some were answered by his buddy....

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I should have wrote
Maybe, I’m being * shortsighted

 

[snake15383]

Sorry for not answering earlier I have not been at the computer today and with the Daytona show around the corner I have been extra busy. There are not many questions that I believe need answering except for the last few threads. The snake was purchased by me for me. The shipping did not cause the snake to be thin and unhealthy. It probably did not help a unhealthy animal to go through the extra stress but I do not believe that is what killed the animal. I did not call from the airport because I did not have a problem with the airport shipping and I did not need to make a claim for the insurance, which I paid extra for incase there was a problem. I also did not want to call Charles and tell him the animals were fine until I had time to get them home inspect them thoroughly and probe them to make sure the sex was correct, which it was. The shipment also came in 2 hours earlier then the flight it was scheduled on, which added some extra confusion and rushing into the equation. I posted this just to warn other people to be careful when making deals over the phone / Internet. As far as his terms go I believe he made them up after I called informing him that the snake had died. I did not receive his terms in any way prior to the death of the animal. He has a website that has no terms posted! Take a look for yourselves. http://home1.gte.net/charlesb/index.html His terms if read carefully also are aimed at a dead black-headed python and are not general terms. He also has pulled his adds from the other well known snake classified once this started. I believe he has shown his try colors throughout this thread. Again the reason for the original post was to warn other people about someone out there that may not have the snakes or the buyers best interest in mind. I believe that's what the Board of Inquiry was for. I will be happy to answer more questions but as stated in the first post please be patient for replies.

 

[Tsutton5]

Tom K

How did you find this guys web site did he have an ad you responded to. I looked at his web site and saw nothing about TOS or anything for that matter

 

[Gary Schiavino]

I've been selling animals for many years, I bend over backwards to make sure my customers are treated well, and are happy with their animals. If a customer called me and had a problem with an animal, I'd ask for the animal back, then send the money back immediately. Customer Service is everything in this business.

I've known Tom Keogan for years, the guy is top knotch, and a true gentleman. He's a low key guy who produces great animals, and his collection is mint. If he got what he'd paid for, he never would have posted.

I don't know Charles, but based on this transaction, I would never purchase an animal from him.

Gary Schiavino

 

[Chameleon Company]

Need some help here .....

The TOS state:

Prices DO NOT include insurance. Insurance is required and is the responsibility of the customer if a claim on death or theft of the animals is hoped to be filed.

I am familiar with insurance for theft, or for damage (to include smashing of the box, which could break of kill whatever is inside), but am not aware of any insurance that can be had against the animal dying enroute. But, before I comment on this part of the TOS, I want to ask if anyone is aware of such insurance. Or maybe Charles can explain what this part of his TOS means, for he seems to be saying that insurance is available such that if you open the box at the airport, and the snake is dead, you can then tell the carrier that they owe you $750 ? I will withhold further comment until I see if I am mistaken.

 

[snake15383]

How did you find this guys web site did he have an ad you responded to. I looked at his web site and saw nothing about TOS or anything for that matter

Yes he ran an add on Kingsnake.com! Can I say that here?

 

[Junkyard]

Charles, looking at the photo of the snake alive, how many times had it eaten before you shipped it off to Tom? It does not look to be a fat healthy snake. Maybe I am wrong, but do hatchling BHP look that skinny, do their entire body look sucked in causing a "V" shape like the one seen in the "live" picture?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Charles,
I know that I have the question outstanding about "death" insurance, and would invite anyone to enlighten me there. Call me stupid, but I truly know of no such insurance, at least not with the regular carriers. But now another queston has been raised about the posting of your TOS, which you have indicated are the contract of the deal ! Could you quickly explain to the skeptics here where a buyer would be made aware of your TOS ? I thank you in advance.

On a side note, to the average reader, when you go to someone's website, and they seem to spend an inordinate amount of time tooting their own horn, what they usually are doing is yanking your crank.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

You can say what ever you want to say. But beware, you are held responsible too.

Personally, I wouldn't buy from someone who conjured up such TOS. Like stated, there basically is no guarantee involved. Too many ways for the seller to come out on top. Some known scammers have very similar TOS.

Judging by your attitude while addressing this issue, I think you knew the animal wasn't going to make it, you could sell it, and when it died, work out a half off discount refund thing, and you are still ahead. That's My impression.

As for the snake, there is NO way it was healthy when it was shipped. A healthy snake can last a long time even with out food. 3 from My last litter went a month after birth before eating their first meals. Of course, I wouldn't sell an animal in that condition either. It's just not right. Yours lasted but a few days.
LOTS of breeders would honor a refund if it died in that small amount of time. Actually, many would give it even more time. ACTUALLY, MOST wouldn't have sold it.
I think You should give back the rest of his money. Make good while you still have a customer base. This thread can last a long time, and be seen by a whole lot of people. FOREVER.


Rick

 

[Chameleon Company]

Folks .... and you too Charles

I waited longer than I cared to to get someone to explain that which cannot be explained. An excerpt from the TOS, once again:

When receiving air freight shipments, you must open your shipments
at the airport to make sure no accidental death or theft has occurred.
If there is a problem, you must alert the airline and me immediately to
file a claim(the reason for adequate insurance).

All of this is rhetorical. And it is also mocking Charles' TOS. Imagine yourself at the freight carrier's desk, opening a box with a snake in it, and it is dead. You then decide if it was covered by any "accidental death" clause? How stupid is that ? Will the animal have a sign on it saying "killed by the mishandling of the shipper"? That the language is even included in Charles' TOS indicates one or more of the following:

1) He just wrote it all yesterday, so as to CYA ... or better put, to "cover his ass" (CHA).

2) Its a deliberate sham (rhymes with scam).

3) He has no experience of which he speaks.

Back to the website. Take the time to look if you have it.

http://home1.gte.net/charlesb/index.html

This thing screams of "buyer beware". So we go the the trouble to post the logo of the Philadelphia Herp Society. OK Charles, you paid your yearly dues. No credit check there.

Charles is a textbook example. The first question you should always have answered before committing money is "how does this seller fix mistakes". The second is "do they have many mistakes". If not indicated in a website, ask them to put the TOS for your deal in writing. As pointed out by others earlier, who posted Bob Clark's and others TOS, all will give you a reasonable opportunity to evaluate their product, if they are credible. And their websites (the good guys), while self-laudatory at times, will also leave you with the impression that they will earn your money. Charles .. you can do better.

BTW, someone mentioned earlier that a label or writing on the box indicating "live animal" might make a difference on whether or not it gets the pressurized or non-pressurized cargo hold of the plane. No such thing. All are pressurized. And usually cold. But it should be labeled "live harmless reptile" etc.

 

[Tsutton5]

my thoughts

All of this is rhetorical. And it is also mocking Charles' TOS. Imagine yourself at the freight carrier's desk, opening a box with a snake in it, and it is dead. You then decide if it was covered by any "accidental death" clause? How stupid is that ? Will the animal have a sign on it saying "killed by the mishandling of the shipper"? That the language is even included in Charles' TOS indicates one or more of the following:

1) He just wrote it all yesterday, so as to CYA ... or better put, to "cover his ass" (CHA).

2) Its a deliberate sham (rhymes with scam).

3) He has no experience of which he speaks.

Back to the website. Take the time to look if you have it.

http://home1.gte.net/charlesb/index.html

This thing screams of "buyer beware". So we go the the trouble to post the logo of the Philadelphia Herp Society. OK Charles, you paid your yearly dues. No credit check there.

Charles is a textbook example. The first question you should always have answered before committing money is "how does this seller fix mistakes". The second is "do they have many mistakes". If not indicated in a website, ask them to put the TOS for your deal in writing. As pointed out by others earlier, who posted Bob Clark's and others TOS, all will give you a reasonable opportunity to evaluate their product, if they are credible. And their websites (the good guys), while self-laudatory at times, will also leave you with the impression that they will earn your money. Charles .. you can do better.

BTW, someone mentioned earlier that a label or writing on the box indicating "live animal" might make a difference on whether or not it gets the pressurized or non-pressurized cargo hold of the plane. No such thing. All are pressurized. And usually cold. But it should be labeled "live harmless reptile" etc.[/QUOTE]


Well said