Bad Guy Charles Koutris – Poor Businessman

[Wadew]

Charles Koutris – Poor Businessman

Charles Koutris – Poor Businessman


This is my first time to post a bad guy report. I am reluctant to call him a bad guy, it goes against my nature. I copped out a little and am going to call Charles Koutris a poor businessman. I have read several bad guy reports to get a feel for what you want to see, I will try to answer most of the questions in my first post.


Charles ran an ad on the Amazon Alliance web site offering a pair of Amazon Tree Boas for sale.

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SOLD- CBB 1.1 Amazon Tree Boas Holdbacks from my Jan '09 Litter SOLD SOLD
« on: March 08, 2010, 05:03:46 PM »

I'm offering my holdback pair from my January '09 litter. These two have shown nothing but promise in terms of color and should be nothing but exceptional adults. They can be bought as a pair or individually, but there will be a price break if you buy the pair. I will include pics of the sire and dam and both of these sibling should surpass the beauty of their parents.

They are marked sold in the ad now because I bought them. I sent him an email as soon as I saw the ad, that was the only contact information he gave. I sent him my phone number and said I wanted to talk serious about them.

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Subject: ATB
From: Wardrop Cabinets [email protected]
Date: 3/9/2010 9:15 AM
To: [email protected]

> On Mar 9, 2010, at 9:15 AM, Wade Wardrop wrote:
>
>> I would like to talk serious about the pair of ATB you have on AA. Can you call me? 435-229-4481 or send me your number and I'll call you.
>>
>> Wade Wardrop


charles koutris wrote:
> Hey Wade,
> give me a call as soon as you can 323 469-8191
> Thanks
Charles
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So I immediately called him. We talked about the snakes and I agreed to buy them. He gave me his Pay Pal info and I sent him the money. We agreed to have the snakes shipped on the 15 of March, that gave him a week to prepare anything he needed to do to ship. I told him my Pay Pal account was in my wife’s name and not to ship to the address they supplied but that I would send him my office address. As you can see from the email that Pay Pal sent me, this all took place in about one hour all on the same day.

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Chuck (or is it Charles?)

I have sent the money for the CK-09-02 Ch red male, and CK-09-03 Ch yellow female Amazon Tree Boas. As we talked about I’d like you to ship them on Monday, March 15.

The snakes look great, I am excited to see them.

I can be reached at this email address or my cell phone 435-229-4481 any time if you have questions. My shipping address is a business address when you fill out the Fed Ex form.

Thanks for everything. Let me know if you need any more info from me.

Wade Wardrop
990 North 1400 West
St. George, Utah 84770
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This is what I got from Pay Pal confirming the payment.

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Hello Vicki Wardrop,

Your payment for $500.00 USD to [email protected] has been sent.

It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in the Recent Activity list on your Account Overview.


Payment details
Amount: $500.00 USD
Transaction Date: Mar 9, 2010
Transaction ID: 9V4448697L645601U

Subject: You've got money!

Message:
Chuck, this is the money for the pair of ATB, CK-09-02 Ch red male, and CK-09-03 Ch yellow female. I will email the shipping info to you. Thank You Wade Wardrop

Shipping Address:

3684 S 1470 W
St George
United States
View the details of this transaction online

Sincerely,
PayPal
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OK so the deal is done, everything looks good. I have no reason to contact him nor does he need to contact me. A week goes by, Monday, March 15, I send him an email just checking to make sure we are on schedule. Then I send him another email that afternoon.

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Subject: ATB
From: Wardrop Cabinets [email protected]
Date: 3/15/2010 8:47 AM
To: [email protected]

Charles
I just wanted to check and see if we were still on track to ship those snakes today? Do you have everything you need from me? Address and phone and all?

Wade
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Subject: ATB
From: Wardrop Cabinets [email protected]
Date: 3/15/2010 4:30 PM
To: [email protected]

Chuck, check in with me will you and let me know if the snakes got shipped today?

Wade
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I get no response from him. So I wait. By Wednesday, I’ve heard nothing from him, I have talked to another person who was also supposed to receive a ATB from him that last Monday so I’m getting nervous. Wednesday morning I post an inquiry on the BOI asking if anyone know Charles and has any contact info. I get several responses, one person PMed me with a phone number but it was the same as the one I already had.

Finally Wednesday afternoon I get a call from him. Lots of excuses and I’ll do better. Oh by the way I heard you put my name on the BOI. That was the only reason he called. He said he was sorry and would ship the next Monday. Then we exchange several emails.

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Subject: Tree Boas
From: charles koutris [email protected]
Date: 3/17/2010 7:40 PM
To: Wade Wardrop

Hey Wade,
Sorry I didn't get a hold of you sooner but I was not able to ship this week on account of work. I also ordered the wrong size shipping box and I'm still waiting to get the larger box. shipping won't be until next week if that is okay with you.
thanks again,
Charles
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On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:30 PM, Wardrop Cabinets wrote:

> Charles, please keep in touch with me. Let me know what you are doing so I don't need to wonder.
>
> Thanks
Wade
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Subject: Re: Tree Boas
From: charles koutris [email protected]
Date: 3/18/2010 7:30 PM
To: Wade Wardrop

Hey Wade,
Again I'm sorry, I will keep you up to date on the status of the shipment. Today the right size shipping container should be here and I will let you know when that arrives. I don't like shipping on thursdays incase something goes wrong because of a hold up or whatever screwup could happen. I don't won't the snakes sitting on some dock in ? city over the weekend. but I will let you know wants everything arrives then I will go ahead and make plans for Monday and give you the tracking info when I receive it. Hope your doing well! Snakes are looking great I can't wait for you to get them I really think you'll be pleased.
Talk to you soon,
Charles
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Subject: Shipping Supplies
From: charles koutris [email protected]
Date: 3/18/2010 10:30 PM
To: Wade Wardrop

Hey Wade,
The correct shipping box and supplies arrived late this afternoon.
So I will be shipping your snakes and Mikes snake on Monday.
I will drop them off as close to 5pm as possible since 5 pm is last pickup.
This is so they are not sitting in boxes all day either on a truck riding around Hollywood
or at the shipping center before departure.
It's starting to get Hot here what are the temps there especially for Monday night and Tuesday?
Thanks Wade
Charles
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Subject: Tracking Info
From: charles koutris [email protected]
Date: 3/19/2010 8:17 PM
To: Wade Wardrop

Hey Wade,
Here is the tracking info for Monday. I will be dropping the snakes off around 4:30 pm since last pickup is at 5:00 to cut down on the hours the snakes have to be in the box. If you can Sunday night email what the weather looks like for Monday night. It's starting to get hot here in LA so I want to make sure I need to use the heat pack. As of right now I plan on it judging by the way the night time temps have been here and where you are. but just to be on the safe side if you can let me know what the temps are going to be the night before would be great.
Thank you,
Charles

UPS Tracking Number: 1Z14W5622499522296
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If anyone is still reading this I am amazed. I hope I’m not giving you more info than you want.

Well guess what, Tuesday comes but the snakes do not. I try to track them on UPS but of course they never received the package. Big surprise. I’ve had enough, I go to Pay Pal and file a complaint. On hour later Charles want to talk to me. All of a sudden he is my buddy again. He will ship the snakes tonight for sure. Well I’m not holding my breath.

Finally, today, Wednesday, March 24, 2010 I got the snakes. Bottom line, he took my money without hesitation. The only time I got any communication or action out of him was when I contacted the BOI or Pay Pal. Me made me promise after promise and never kept a one until Pay Pal contacted him and told him I had filed a complaint.

I got my snakes so I won’t say that Charles Koutris is a bad guy, but he is for certain very undependable and I will never do business with him again.

 

[scaledverts]

Hmm

Very poor communication for sure. Looking back at your weather, temps have been in the proper range since at least last Wednesday.

Are the snakes at least as advertised? No mites, health issues, etc? I doubt they have eaten yet, but do they look good otherwise?

 

[scaledverts]

Also, did you ask why the delay in shipping? Perhaps there is a perfectly reasonable explanation that just has not been shared with you yet? Just trying to get the whole picture here.

Did you inform him about this post? Maybe he can come here to explain the poor communication.

 

[Wadew]

My weather has been good for a month, that has never been an issue. The snakes are as advertised. I have no complaints about the animals themselves. I'm just furious that I made arrangements on three different occasions to receive the snakes and they did not show. UPS always delivers to my office at around 12:15. I have a meeting I have to attend at 12:00 everyday. When ever I have snakes coming on UPS I have to either miss that meeting or arrange for someone else to receive the package.

 

[Wadew]

His reason for not getting the snakes shipped was because of work. That was as much info as he gave. I have not yet but plan to email a copy of my first post to him. I don't know if he'll respond.

 

[Wadew]

OK, Now he has been informed.

 

[spyder79]

Wow, im glad you got your animals in safe and sound. So many posts start the same way yours did and ends with "i never got my animals and paypal is screwing me around now"

So congrats on a happy outcome.
I will say it seems to have been a sucky situation. At the very least he should have contacted you with whatever changes he had to make to shipping times. I know, weather he had to work or not, he had 5 minutest to sit down and type up a short email to you.

 

[Casey Hulse]

It is good that you brought this here. It sounds like caution would be advised when dealing with him.
Glad your snakes arrived OK.

 

[chamgirl99471]

I agree completely!! If it takes threats through Paypal and the BOI to put a fire under someone's butt then it's definately "Deal With Caution"... Good Choice bringing it here!!

 

[Wadew]

Just a note, In the three hours this thread has been here I have had calls from two different people who wanted what ever info I had because they were having problems with Charles. I guess I'm not alone.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

Wade you did the right thing by posting this issue on the BOI. After all, this is why it is here. I personally have never had dealing with this person and, like Spyder79 (Brian) said, he certainly had a few minutes that he could have communicated with you what was going on.

I have a tendency to give people a break as long as the animals come in healthy, just not on time. There can always be some sort of personal reason why he couldnt ship out the exact day he thought, however, there is usually some sort of communication in the meantime. I, like you, would not personally label him a bad guy based on your transaction with him. I DO think I would proceed with caution if I were to ever have any dealings with him though.

 

[scaledverts]

I have a tendency to give people a break as long as the animals come in healthy, just not on time. There can always be some sort of personal reason why he couldnt ship out the exact day he thought, however, there is usually some sort of communication in the meantime. I, like you, would not personally label him a bad guy based on your transaction with him. I DO think I would proceed with caution if I were to ever have any dealings with him though.

I would be livid if the shipment did not arrive AND there was no communication from the shipper.

 

[Wadew]

Of course I was upset or at least worried when the animals did not arrive. And you are correct that sometimes things happen. But three times, with no communication.

I don't expect any kind of retribution here, I have been a member here for a long time but I have not been active. I don't know what your normal procedure is beyond this stage. My only reason for posting was to go on record with my problem so others won't need to repeat what I did. I've done that and would be just fine if it all ends here. I think at least one of the people who called me is going to post here as well. So the subject may not be dead.

 

[chamgirl99471]

Sometimes threads like this do bring people out of the woodwork that may have been nervous to post on the BOI... It's good that you did bring this here! It just goes to show that communication is one of the key ingredients to good Business in my opinion!!

 

[Southern Wolf]

Wade you did the right thing by posting this issue on the BOI. After all, this is why it is here. I personally have never had dealing with this person and, like Spyder79 (Brian) said, he certainly had a few minutes that he could have communicated with you what was going on.

I have a tendency to give people a break as long as the animals come in healthy, just not on time. There can always be some sort of personal reason why he couldnt ship out the exact day he thought, however, there is usually some sort of communication in the meantime. I, like you, would not personally label him a bad guy based on your transaction with him. I DO think I would proceed with caution if I were to ever have any dealings with him though.

Agreed....as long as there is communications and not just leaving the buyer hanging. Things can come up but if you plan on being/staying in business then you must communicate.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

I’m sad to read this thread simply because I like all the parties involved and would also consider Charles ‘an online herp friend’, known him for quite a few years. However, I do agree that people should not be left in the dark with no communication, especially when expecting and waiting for a delivery. I don’t want to get in the middle of anything, but I will share my experience.

I had a good transaction with Charles this year. There were some communication delays but I also know that Charles does this as a hobby and does not consider it a ‘business’ so I was prepared to be patient (of course each individual has varying levels of patience).

Here was my deal with Charles: in September ’09 I contacted him about an amazon tree boa he had posted pics of on another site and asked if she was for sale. We worked out a deal for a couple amazons and he agreed to let me do a payment plan, which I paid off in November (here’s the email, copy/past from yahoo, I edited out some personal stuff***):
*********************
Your snakes!
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:19 PM
From:
"charles koutris" <[email protected]>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"April Yohn" <[email protected]>
Hey April,

Thank you very much I received the payments that you sent.
***(edit)
We need to figure out when the best time to ship and if you can send me your address again I can get a quote for the shipping. Your snakes are doing great they both just shed last week and fed today.
Charles
*******************
We agreed to wait until the weather was better. He provided me with a shipping quote 12/4. It was still storming, so we agreed to wait some more. I paid for the shipping on 12/6. (I can post more emails if needed). He emailed me on 1/4 and advised he’d ship Wednesday 1/6, then contacted me 1/6 to advise he accidentally fed everyone the night before and couldn’t ship (reasonable to me as I’ve done this before) and would ship 1/12. No snakes arrived, I sent him an email to check status. He contacted me 1/16 to apologize, thanked me for my patience and advised he’d ship the following Monday 1/18. I received my snakes Tuesday 1/19, they arrived in great shape and were as advertised. Now, that doesn’t mean he was right to delay and not ship when he said he would but I also knew by this time to be patient and not worry about it too much, I never felt that he was doing anything wrong, was just a very busy guy. I will also mention that I always get shipments sent to my work that way I’m available to sign and don’t have to take any time off to receive deliveries.

I’ve delayed shipping two weeks in a row once and was thankful the receiving party was willing to let me slide a bit, however they were well aware of the delays before the ‘scheduled arrival date’. I do agree that Charles should have been much more communicative with both parties (Wade and Mike). I would still buy from Charles and would still recommend him to others, but with the caveat that they be aware there could be delays and patience is key.

Happy herping all,
-April

 

[Wadew]

For what ever it is worth, I just got and email from Charles apologizing. That takes a man to do that after all that I have done to him here.

 

[chongorojo]

Well it has been said many times here mistakes happen its how you deal with them that counts, I'm glad everything worked out for you!

Brian Hettinger

 

[chazzz]

First off I am truly sorry Wade about the delays and lack of communication and I don't blame you for bringing this to the BOI like you did. I completely understand, it sucks but it's my fault. I didn't realize I was going to run into so many problems with my schedule getting the snakes to UPS. I should have told you at the beginning that I don't have a vehicle at the moment nor do I have a cell phone. So I wasn't able to contact you unless I was at home. I could say it till I was blue in the face how stressed out I was trying to ship the snakes out and when I would miss that chance a few times I was a nervous wreck.
This was my third shipment with UPS and 2 weeks prior to Wade's shipment I had scheduled a pickup for MIke's snake. I was under the impression that they would pick-up the snake around 6 pm as stated on SYR website and that was when my previous shipment to April was picked up. That day UPS knocked on my door at 9 am and I was obviously not ready nor did I want the snake driving around in a truck for 8 hours for no reason. the Driver told me I had to be there at the UPS store by 6 pm well he was wrong but still my fault for not checking, last pickup was at 5 pm.

I won't go into anymore detail other than I'm sorry and I didn't know about the paypal dispute until after the Snakes were shipped. I didn't realize how difficult it was going to be for me to ship with my schedule and current situation. I now inform anyone buying a snake from me that it may take me some time to get the snake out and if they can be patient they will get exactly what they want and the snake will arrive safely.
I've learned from this experience with Wade and am better for it now. I'm glad he likes his snakes and it seems they have gone to a good home and will be well cared for which is a big concern for me.

Thank you April for stating our transaction and how you felt about me I do appreciate it. Although I feel like you left out an important part that I wish I didn't have to bring up. But since my name is on the slab I feel it's necessary to state. I gave you a free Tree Boa because of the delay in shipping. I guess my feelings were a bit hurt that you would not include that in your post.

Anyway I am sorry Wade I hope you now understand that my intentions were good and didn't want this transaction to go sour because of the reasons it did. Most importantly I'm glad you're happy with the snakes and they made it safe.

On another note you mentioning a couple people having problems with me, I can only guess who that was and I was having problems with them and don't think it pertains to this in the least. That is a completely different situation that in my understanding you mentioning it is hearsay and third party stuff that isn't allowed on the BOI.

There's really not much more to say than I'm sorry and I hope you enjoy your snakes!

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Thank you April for stating our transaction and how you felt about me I do appreciate it. Although I feel like you left out an important part that I wish I didn't have to bring up. But since my name is on the slab I feel it's necessary to state. I gave you a free Tree Boa because of the delay in shipping. I guess my feelings were a bit hurt that you would not include that in your post.

You are so very right Charles, I guess I didn't want to mention it for fear that others might 'expect' or feel they were 'owed' something free just due to a shipping delay. I'm very sorry to have hurt your feelings.

Re-reading my original post in this thread, it comes across more harsh than I originally intended as well. I am completetly satisfied with our transaction, couldn't be happier in fact, and look forward to doing more business with you in the future!