Chelsea Richardson-SNAKE KILLER...

[SoulSmilen]

All's well Wolfy; I know it's hard to tell inflection here at times.

 

[Chameleon Company]

OK Bobby.

You win I'm Chris Johnson of TSE infamy If you say so ! Or is it Shrill No ... jellyfish As I have confessed many times, I was the grassy knoll sniper as well !

Man, that's one heavy piece of rock, getting heavier.

A better New Year to you ....

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

After the kast few battles on recent threads I have taken a bit of a break from the BOI recently. However, the microcosm that this thread has become deserves a few comments.

David

Your anger and horror at what happened to the animal was 100% justified. Your bigoted statement and then your ridivulous stance of standing by the staetement were not. On the situation with Chelsea, everyone here agrees with you more or less. You shot yourself in the foot with the "trailer trash" statement. It only takes a moment to read the post before you hit submit. I'd avail myself of that moment in the future unless you want your name to be synonomous with the word bigot

Wes

As the other member of Fauna you have on ignore, (couldn't be prouder of that) I find myself in the dubious position of agreeing, in part, with one of your posts in this thread. A large number of threads recently have been hijacked to feature the dislike you and Jim F have for each other. The very interesting thing I have noted through quite a bit of thread reading is that in almost every case, as in this thread, the first punch is thrown by you. The hijacking is correct...and the hijacker is pretty much just you. As has been said more than once, you have a lot to offer here. The problem is, all we see is the petty vicious side.....kinda sad


Bobby

I can't say this strongly enough. I know you personally somewhat, have had conversations with you at shows, and have done business with you before. You are, in my opinion, a 100% good guy. That said, you have recently let one stupid stunt of Jim F's rile you to a point that is way out of proportion. You are beginning to follow Wes from thread to thread taking pot shots at Jim F at every opportunity whether they are deserved or not. That is not only not the kind of behaviour I would expect from the person I know but Wes is not the role model I would have suspected someone as even keeled as I believe you are to choose.


Jim F

While Wes is pretty much always the instigator, you have no problem with always rising to the occasion. i don't always agree with you or your posts (I figure I'm at about 80%) but you enable him and quite often exacerbate the situation well past his original volley. While I don't have him on ignore, I do pretty much, ignore him recently. It works out nicely. If no one rises to his bait he does not catch any fish. Simple and logical

Last comment, the stunt you pulled on substituting Pruett for Hill, whatever the rationale behind it, stinks. Knowing Bobby as I do, I believe a simple apology posted here would satisfy him for having his name linked, even in this scenario, to a scumbag like Pruett


Jim O

Simple precise and put perfectly. I could not have said it better.

Here's the Cliff Notes version as I see it:

• Chelsea's ignorance of proper husbandry likely led to the death of a beautiful animal.
• David showed ignorance and bigotry and kept defending it even after he should have simply apologized and moved on.
• David was right to refuse Chelsea's request for a refund.
• Most everyone agrees with the above to a greater or lesser extent and are merely arguing with each other about issues not germane to the subject at hand. I can practically smell the testosterone.
• As someone wisely said earlier in this thread, Chelsea's kind of ignorance is much more easily solved than is David's.

Did I miss anything important? It's hard to believe that this drivel has gone on for over 80 posts. In fact it's hard to believe this merited a BOI thread at all.

That's all I have to say on this subject. Things have been pretty civil here lately. Let's try to raise the bar a bit.

 

[varnyard]

You win I'm Chris Johnson of TSE infamy If you say so ! Or is it Shrill No ... jellyfish As I have confessed many times, I was the grassy knoll sniper as well !

Man, that's one heavy piece of rock, getting heavier.

A better New Year to you ....

No Jim, just someone that lost every ounce of respect they once had from me and others, just like Chris.

 

[mcgrath5860]

From a Dumb MIC

As usual people on the net pick up on part of the story that they find conflicting to their views and run with it. Come on. The care and health of the snake or in question not the sideline show or comment "trailer trash". Is the BOI and ethic board or are we to use it to better reptile husbandry. This sometimes confuses me. Maybe I'm not to understand because I am a dumb Irish "Mic" that drank to much booze. OOOOOOPPS would that be a stereotype too????

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I'd be willing to be we've all lost a snake (or other animal) or two (or more) and the bottom line is, no matter how experienced we might be or how loathe we are to admit it, it is usually due to improper husbandry or something we could have prevented. Not always, but usually.

The knowledge we have in regards to husbandry was built on the backs of many dead species.
Point well taken. BUT

To claim ignorance with a species that enough information is available to anyone, at their fingertips, in a matter of moments, isn’t a good enough excuse. IMO
I would wager it takes more time in effort to make a purchase of an animal from someone than it does to seek and find the information needed to care for that animal.


David, I have more BRB’s than I care to admit to. If it were one of mine, I would be truly upset as well. I also would understand that I have no control of that animal any longer. My approach would have been different.

One could say, the justification to bring it to the BOI would hinge on the request for a refund. If the person continued to seek a refund based on the death of the snake and/or sought an animal back in regards to a trade for the snake that perished due to her neglect, it would be an appropriate BOI topic. Also, if the customer made an attempt to tarnish your reputation due to not receiving a refund or snake, I could see that warranting a bad customer thread.

Certainly, threads have been started about bad husbandry before on the BOI. I'm not taking a position that your thread doesn't belong, just adding what would promt me to start one. Obviously, you felt it did or you wouldn't have posted it.

On the other hand, If this person was offering animals for sale, I do appreciate the heads-up.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I would like to add

What a waste of a beautiful snake.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Well said Mike. It was a stunt, as I said it was then and now. It found its mark better than I expected, but only a stunt. Outside of Bobby's feelings being hurt, there was no harm, and no foul. It took quite a few assumptions for Bobby to connect the dots as he did. That's his demeanor now, and I played it. My follow-up statement, in that thread, which has been pasted here twice now, will have to do. Was there a more direct way to clarify the misunderstandings that others may have assumed? Might I point out that it was done in a timely fashion, and was right to the point. Bobby went over the edge, with intent to harm others, in that thread. His actions were no stunt. Its for him to climb back, and I don't think either of us have a rope that long. He's got that added weight now too. Seems Bobby has promised to pop up with the silliness at all turns now. How droll. Bring it on <yawn>.

I agree wholeheartedly that he seems to be Wes' new butt-buddy.

I have a lot of driving to do to get to the libraries in Tampa in the morning. Need that sleep.

Good post Dennis. Besides all that you said, people need to step up as better sellers. The "ounce of prevention ....." thing.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

time in effort

*time and effort
I should have took some to preview my post.

 

[DavidBeard]

I just want to say that I appreciate everyone's input on this matter (even those with opposing viewpoints to myself). It seems as though an amicable end can come to this situation. I have been in touch with Chelsea today via private e-mail and we are working together to turn this ordeal into a positive. I have offered to help her and her animals out in any way I can, so hopefully this will be a one-time event. Thanks again to all who have added insight here. Happy new years!

 

[LadyViper]

I know this is a pretty hot topic and there is alot of issues here, but I have a question and please keep in mind, I am not a Breeder/seller of anything. I am a hobbiest and a volunteer foster parent from time to time for reptile rescues.

Why don't all sellers/breeders simple print off one of the thousands of care sheets and give one to the buyer?

Yes, It's not the responsibility of the seller but, at least you know they have the information. Wouldn't it make it easier to sleep at night?

When I choose a new home for a foster, I ask questions, like how do you choose,maintain, feed and care for the reptile in question. I have turned people down.
It only takes a few minutes and most people love to share their information and brag on their current pets.

I am not blaming the seller, the buyer killed the snake. I Just hope to make some general points about this type of situation.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Kudos David. She obviously needs some help, and can't possibly enjoy seeing what she paid money for die. I hope she's a better person for your involvement.

 

[LadyViper]

Sorry I'm new and I didn't post my full name. Thanks for the heads up!

Pam Roberts AkA Lady Viper
http://www.houstonreptile.com

 

[Jim O]

After the kast few battles on recent threads I have taken a bit of a break from the BOI recently. However, the microcosm that this thread has become deserves a few comments.

David

Your anger and horror at what happened to the animal was 100% justified. Your bigoted statement and then your ridivulous stance of standing by the staetement were not. On the situation with Chelsea, everyone here agrees with you more or less. You shot yourself in the foot with the "trailer trash" statement. It only takes a moment to read the post before you hit submit. I'd avail myself of that moment in the future unless you want your name to be synonomous with the word bigot

Wes

As the other member of Fauna you have on ignore, (couldn't be prouder of that) I find myself in the dubious position of agreeing, in part, with one of your posts in this thread. A large number of threads recently have been hijacked to feature the dislike you and Jim F have for each other. The very interesting thing I have noted through quite a bit of thread reading is that in almost every case, as in this thread, the first punch is thrown by you. The hijacking is correct...and the hijacker is pretty much just you. As has been said more than once, you have a lot to offer here. The problem is, all we see is the petty vicious side.....kinda sad


Bobby

I can't say this strongly enough. I know you personally somewhat, have had conversations with you at shows, and have done business with you before. You are, in my opinion, a 100% good guy. That said, you have recently let one stupid stunt of Jim F's rile you to a point that is way out of proportion. You are beginning to follow Wes from thread to thread taking pot shots at Jim F at every opportunity whether they are deserved or not. That is not only not the kind of behaviour I would expect from the person I know but Wes is not the role model I would have suspected someone as even keeled as I believe you are to choose.


Jim F

While Wes is pretty much always the instigator, you have no problem with always rising to the occasion. i don't always agree with you or your posts (I figure I'm at about 80%) but you enable him and quite often exacerbate the situation well past his original volley. While I don't have him on ignore, I do pretty much, ignore him recently. It works out nicely. If no one rises to his bait he does not catch any fish. Simple and logical

Last comment, the stunt you pulled on substituting Pruett for Hill, whatever the rationale behind it, stinks. Knowing Bobby as I do, I believe a simple apology posted here would satisfy him for having his name linked, even in this scenario, to a scumbag like Pruett....


That's all I have to say on this subject. Things have been pretty civil here lately. Let's try to raise the bar a bit.

I pasted this because I know Wes will then see it. Wes, Jim F, Bobby et al, John is pretty much on the mark here (and no, not because he agreed with me).



Wes,

I think that you and I have a good deal of mutual respect for one another. Maybe I'm ASSuming too much and if so I can accept that. As one who has done battle with both you and Jim F at different times, what I can see is that nothing is being accomplished in this particular war. If you really have such negativity about all of his posts, why not keep him on ignore and use your self control and don't comment on the quoted parts if you choose to read them at all? If his posts are so bad that you need to ignore them, then really ignore them.




Jim F,

A lot of the same can go for you. Your current tactic is to bait Wes (and others) and then to be rude to him. As Dr. Phil might ask "How's that working for you?". I don't know how it's working for you but it isn't solving your problem with Wes and it is now getting into too many threads. Maybe it's time for you to not do that, unless you find that the amusement that you derive more important than the quality of the content on this site.



Bobby,

You are a good guy from all that I have heard and know. No one doubts that. Consider that it was a stunt on Jim F's part and move on. There's nothing else to be gained here.




Now for all you you who will say "Pot, Kettle, Black. Put them in a sentence" I can accept that. I know that I am often not the best role model here on the BOI, but that doesn't necessarily make my observations any less valid in this case.



Now I am also done hijacking this thread. And now, from one of my favorite books: Good night moon and good night to the quiet old lady whispering hush....

 

[Wilomn]

There are four of you on ignore schmidtty and two others who should be but can't be.

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Mike G.,
Wanted to get in a couple more things on the expanded topics here. Call them my observations:

1) Wes is hitting a lot more brick walls than before. Tears him up real good, doesn't it ! He can't post now without saying "chumpco" somewhere ! I love it !

2) The naysayers are having to grasp for straws almost as soon as they are out of the gate, as their quivers are almost empty to begin with. Look at me. I'm Shrill. I'm TSE. What's left, Hitler ?

3) Threads such as this one did not end up with a lynching. David is helping Chelsea now. Even if just a few emails to get her pointed in the right direction, its a positive, and it was a group effort to turn things.

4) BTW, the entity in the Pacific NW that lost their KS account ? Where Bobby was calling everyone a scammer ? They got it back within 48 hours. Took all of 10 minutes of personal involvement by Jeff B., to include a couple of phone calls, to realize that the tune being sung by Bobby was total BS. If Bobby, and his ilk, were more concerned about the truth, and less about hurting folks from behind their keyboards, it never would have gotten to that point. Bobby and the $hitheads came close to doing real harm to innocent people. Without Jeff B. getting involved, they may have wallowed. A pox on Bobby's house .... almost ..... for that one.

Bobby has become a $hithead. I owe him no respect at this point regarding his acumen here. Regarding his business, I would still recommend him in a heartbeat, although I would probably add "don't say that I sent you". Mark my words, and this is a promise. I will be leaving this site soon enough. I will not let the door hit me in the behind, etc etc.

 

[SoulSmilen]

Way to go, David. Sorry if I came across as harsh, and I am glad Chelsea is open to the help.

 

[DavidBeard]

Hey, if theres anyone out there who understands about "coming off a tad harsh" its me lol.

 

[mcgrath5860]

enough said

Something good has become of this thread. Education to a person on husbandry for the betterment of a snake, people apologizing and overall holiday cheer. Now if we can forget the personal innuendos we would be much better. Im glad David and chelsea are coming to a resolution. Pride is a hard thing to overcome sometimes but crow taste can be humbling .. We should all try it from time to time. It really doesn't taste to bad

 

[Lucille]

I just want to say that I appreciate everyone's input on this matter (even those with opposing viewpoints to myself). It seems as though an amicable end can come to this situation. I have been in touch with Chelsea today via private e-mail and we are working together to turn this ordeal into a positive. I have offered to help her and her animals out in any way I can, so hopefully this will be a one-time event. Thanks again to all who have added insight here. Happy new years!

I think it is terrible about the snake but this is an outstanding resolution and choice for you to make, David. To have gone through all that distress and then offer to help really shows your ability to rise above your negative feelings and help those reptiles that this reptile keeper has.

I am hoping that in a year or two, Chelsea will learn enough, so that she in turn may show others what quality care is all about; and I hope she is invited to visit Fauna and read and learn all she can.