SnakeGirl3
New member
Back in December of 2009, I contacted Chris Brown at BA Reptiles about a male blackback butter he had listed for sale on his website, after doing my homework here on Fauna and finding only good remarks about him. We agreed on a price and shipping date. Unfortunately, the snake arrived dead. Since I was at work and my husband was at home to accept the package, my husband called me when he arrived to say he had arrived dead. I told my husband to immediately take pictures and log into my email account and send the pics to Chris, which he did. I called Chris once I arrived home, and took and sent further pics upon Chris‘s request, and Chris then agreed that I needed to be compensated. He offered a larger male butter, but I was specifically after a blackback. Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, and I should have taken the replacement offered, but I did not. I offered to wait until his 2010 babies hatched, and perhaps get a blackback butter from one of those, to which Chris agreed.
After much checking in with him from time to time via email over the course of the next few months, I finally spoke to Chris on the phone, in which case he said that he had lost all of his animals to a fire. He said that once his insurance money came through, he would reimburse me. I have checked a few times to see if that money had been collected by him, to which the responses were no.
I emailed him last on February 25, 2011 to again check on the status of his reimbursement, but have not received any response. I have tried calling him as well, and have received no answer and no return call.
I hesitate to name him a “bad guy”; I really do not know at this point if he truly lost everything to a fire and is really not getting reimbursed by his insurance company, or if he decided to get out and didn’t want to make this right. Perhaps my compassion for his situation has made me more patient than I should have been, but I was trying to put myself in his shoes and maybe that was my own mistake. However, my patience is now beginning to wear thin, and I am wondering if I am ever going to get the $525.00 I paid him. My own personal business sense tells me not to spend money that someone has paid for a snake until the snake is safely in their hands, alive and well; apparently Chris did not do this, however, since he wasn’t willing to do a refund when the snake arrived DOA, but preferred to do some type of replacement. While I understand that each breeder has their own preferred methods, and he did in fact offer another male butter, he should also understand that I was after a specific snake; that’s why I was willing to pay $500.00 plus shipping for an outstanding animal rather than the typical $350 most male butters were selling for at the time.
The emails between us are attached below.
Once on the phone with him, I made my payment with a CC. Chris was not able to ship that Tuesday due to work, so we waited for a bit longer. Finally, we seemed to find a suitable night to ship:
He shipped the snake out on Monday, December 14th, and it arrived dead the following morning. This next email is the one I had my husband send, along with the following pics:
When I arrived home, I immediately called Chris to let him know what had happened. He had not yet checked his email, and was not aware of the situation. However, he did request more photos, of which I took, and sent him the next two emails, along with the photos:
After checking his emails, he responded:
I waited until close to egg-laying and/or hatching season before contacting him again, figuring it wouldn’t do much good to try before that.
At this point, we spoke on the phone, and this is the conversation in which he stated he’d lost everything to a fire, and that he would reimburse me once he received the compensation from his insurance company.
I tried calling around 1:00 pm today as well, and still did not get a response, as he did not answer my call. I left a message, but he has not returned my call. I fully intend to send him an email letting him know about this thread, and a link to it. I am not sure how much good this thread will or will not do; if Chris is completely out of selling snakes, he may not be worried about his reputation as a snake breeder at this point. However, it might be better if he tried to resolve this in case he ever decides to get back into snakes. I would just like to re-open the lines of communication, as it has been decent before now; he always answered my emails and returned all calls promptly in the past. I would really just like to have my money back so we can both put this behind us and move forward.
After much checking in with him from time to time via email over the course of the next few months, I finally spoke to Chris on the phone, in which case he said that he had lost all of his animals to a fire. He said that once his insurance money came through, he would reimburse me. I have checked a few times to see if that money had been collected by him, to which the responses were no.
I emailed him last on February 25, 2011 to again check on the status of his reimbursement, but have not received any response. I have tried calling him as well, and have received no answer and no return call.
I hesitate to name him a “bad guy”; I really do not know at this point if he truly lost everything to a fire and is really not getting reimbursed by his insurance company, or if he decided to get out and didn’t want to make this right. Perhaps my compassion for his situation has made me more patient than I should have been, but I was trying to put myself in his shoes and maybe that was my own mistake. However, my patience is now beginning to wear thin, and I am wondering if I am ever going to get the $525.00 I paid him. My own personal business sense tells me not to spend money that someone has paid for a snake until the snake is safely in their hands, alive and well; apparently Chris did not do this, however, since he wasn’t willing to do a refund when the snake arrived DOA, but preferred to do some type of replacement. While I understand that each breeder has their own preferred methods, and he did in fact offer another male butter, he should also understand that I was after a specific snake; that’s why I was willing to pay $500.00 plus shipping for an outstanding animal rather than the typical $350 most male butters were selling for at the time.
The emails between us are attached below.
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:23:42 -0800
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Male Butter 1
Hello. I am contacting you about Male Butter 1 (the blackback one) that you have posted on your website. How much would shipping be to 37803? Your listed price of $500 is about my max, but if shipping isn't too much more, then I could maybe come up with enough.
Thanks!
Pamela Trentham
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com
---- Chris Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
=============
how bout i just sell him to you for 525.00 shipped
---- BA Reptiles <[email protected]> wrote:
=============
Hello just checking to see if you got my email on the butter male you were
asking about
------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 10:33 PM -0500
Subject: Re: Re:
Yes, I got your email today. I work until 5 and couldn't check it until I
got home today.
The total cost with shipping certainly sounds reasonable to me. Do you use
FedEx for shipping or some other method? I would prefer FedEx if that's a
possibility.
Also, just have a couple more questions, but otherwise am ready to go ahead and purchase him:
What's his current weight?
How old is he? (Approx. age is fine if that's all you have, an exact hatch
date would be appreciated if you have it.)
What type of prey is he feeding on (i.e. mice or rat pups; live, pre-killed, frozen/thawed)?
How often is he feeding (every 5 days, every 7 days, etc.)?
Any other info you have on him that you feel might be important (in case I
missed something I should probably know haha).
I don't mean to bombard you with questions, but I've learned to ask during
the sale rather than after, as I typically get very slow, if any, responses
after I've already bought one.
Also, what method of payment can you take? I have an account with PayPal
already (this email address) if you want to send the payment request there,
or if you can accept credit/debit cards without PayPal, I can do that too.
Thank you,
Pamela Trentham
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com
---- "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
=============
ok ill try to get all the questions...fed ex 155 grams live large mice 1st
week of sept born would rather take cc over phone less in fees and all other
questions can be answserd that way as well.... i think that was
everything....im at work so if this works let me know and can wrap him up
tomarrow
thanks
chris
----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone
------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 11:47 PM -0500
Subject: Re: Re:
That sounds fine. I work M-F 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. eastern time, so you won't be
able to reach me over the phone during those hours. But my number is
865-454-8554.
After checking the overnight lows in my area this week, I was hoping you
might be able to ship him tomorrow (provided I've paid you) since the
overnight low is supposed to be 47. All other nights this week are supposed
to get down to around 32, give or take. If you can call me this evening,
I'll still be up for another half hour or so. If not, you can give me a
call tomorrow anytime after 5 p.m.
Thanks!
Pam
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com
---- "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
=============
sorry but it will haave to be tomarrow when i call at work till 6am ill
call u after 5 thanks for your business
----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone
Once on the phone with him, I made my payment with a CC. Chris was not able to ship that Tuesday due to work, so we waited for a bit longer. Finally, we seemed to find a suitable night to ship:
He shipped the snake out on Monday, December 14th, and it arrived dead the following morning. This next email is the one I had my husband send, along with the following pics:
------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <[email protected]>
To: "BA Reptiles" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, Dec 15, 10:46 AM -0500
Subject: RE: Re
Hello Chris, the snake arrived dead. I am adding pics of the snake.
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com
When I arrived home, I immediately called Chris to let him know what had happened. He had not yet checked his email, and was not aware of the situation. However, he did request more photos, of which I took, and sent him the next two emails, along with the photos:
------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <[email protected]>
To: "BA Reptiles" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, Dec 15, 6:11 PM -0500
Subject: RE: Re
Chris:
Attached are the pics you requested; I have three additional pictures that I will send in a second email; my email account won't allow me to add further pictures to this one (total attachment size would be too large).
Again, I want to stress that I am NOT angry with you; I'm more saddened by the circumstances than anything else.
He is a truly beautiful animal and I really wish he had survived the trip.
Regards,
Pam
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com
------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <[email protected]>
To: "BA Reptiles" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, Dec 15, 6:13 PM -0500
Subject: More Pictures
Here are the additional pictures.
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com
After checking his emails, he responded:
I waited until close to egg-laying and/or hatching season before contacting him again, figuring it wouldn’t do much good to try before that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons
[mailto
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: replacement butter male
Chris:
Just checking in. I've been checking your website regularly, so I know you
don't have any butters listed yet, just wondering how the season's going for
them. Any ovs or lays yet that look promising for a clutch of butters?
Hope everything is going well for you! I noticed your list of ball pythons
for sale on fauna as well, and it looks like you're still doing great! Best
wishes for the season!
Regards,
Pamela Trentham
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com
---- BA Reptiles <[email protected]> wrote:
=============
I haven't forgot u. I have 1 butter clutch so far just waiting still 30 days
or so away
------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <[email protected]>
To: "BA Reptiles" <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, Jun 12, 4:06 PM -0400
Subject: RE: replacement butter male
Any butter babies yet? If you have pics, too, that would be great, even if they aren't ready to leave yet.
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com
---- "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
=============
nothing yet sorry
----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone
-----Original Message-----
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons
[mailto
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: replacement butter male
Any news? A possible clutch coming or due to hatch?
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com
---- BA Reptiles <[email protected]> wrote:
=============
2 more baking so we will see what pops out
At this point, we spoke on the phone, and this is the conversation in which he stated he’d lost everything to a fire, and that he would reimburse me once he received the compensation from his insurance company.
I tried calling around 1:00 pm today as well, and still did not get a response, as he did not answer my call. I left a message, but he has not returned my call. I fully intend to send him an email letting him know about this thread, and a link to it. I am not sure how much good this thread will or will not do; if Chris is completely out of selling snakes, he may not be worried about his reputation as a snake breeder at this point. However, it might be better if he tried to resolve this in case he ever decides to get back into snakes. I would just like to re-open the lines of communication, as it has been decent before now; he always answered my emails and returned all calls promptly in the past. I would really just like to have my money back so we can both put this behind us and move forward.
