Chris Godino

[Hues1]

Chris Godino
[email protected]
[email protected]
reptile retreat
exoticpetco

SCAMMER ALL THE WAY. Had a ad on K.S. for 5-6 month old female leachianus geckos that were suppose to 5-6 inches long from snout to vent. I e-mailed this scammer stating that if they were guaranteed 100% females...I'd take them.

I get a e-mail back stating...

Temp Sexed to be Females he
has been 90percent acurate as far as i know but i am not shure nor do i
guarentee i apolagize if i put this in a ad but i dident mean to once again
they are temp sexed

I figured that since the guy was "trying" to be honest and may have unintentionally "forgot" to put in his ad that they were "temp sexed" (even though there have been no positive outcomes with temp. sexing leachianus and I should've laughed in his face and walked away) I'd let this little boo boo slide and gave him the benefit of the doubt due to ignorance and inexperience.

I offered to pre-pay shipping via UPS to me so I can inspect and look at them prior to making payment on them (thank god I went this route). The terms were pretty simple...he sends me the leachianus that were suppose to be 5-6 months old and 5-6 inches from snout to vent, I'd look them over....sex them...and if even one turned out to be a female, I'd take them both for $500.00 (I needed a female pretty bad). But if they were both boys...I'd happily put them back in a box and send them back pre-paid by him and he would have to re-imburse me for pre-paying the original shipping from him to me.

Well...long story short, I shoot off a UPS shipping label, receive the geckos...and these things were about the size of a 8-10 week old crested geckos...these leachianus were 4 1/4 inches from snout to the tip of the tail. A 5-6 month old leachianus is approx. 5-7 inches from snout to vent depending on feeding regimen/husbandry and can be sexed with 90%-95% accuracy. These were way to small to even consider sexing let alone I feel like I've just been had and these were no way, no how, and not a chance 5-6 months old.

I called and e-mailed him with my disappointment and made it very clear that he needed to make arrangements to have these shipped back to him AND reimburse me for paying the original shipping. So far...he's got the misrepresented geckos back and I got a e-mail stating I wasnt getting reimbursed for shipping because the guy he bought them from stated they were at least 5-6 months old.

Here are the e-mail exchanges while putting this deal together...there were also a few phone calls basically re-iterating the below e-mails.

>> From: [email protected]
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 7:24 PM
>> Subject: Message about: Wholesale Reptiles
>>
>>
>>> guaranteed both females...I'll take them.
>>>
>>> Let me know.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alex

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Jr" [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 7:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Message about: Wholesale Reptiles
>
>
>> Alex these came from a local Breeder they were Temp Sexed to be Females
>> he has been 90percent acurate as far as i know but i am not shure nor do
>> i guarentee i apolagize if i put this in a ad but i dident mean to once
>> again they are temp sexed and this breeder is fairly acurate on temp
>> sexing babies so well see give me a call if you still want them for $500
>> plus $45 shipping i can get them out asap Chris

From: "Alex Hue" [email protected]
To: "Christopher Jr" [email protected]
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Message about: Wholesale Reptiles

> Hello Chris,
> The only way I'd be interested is if they were both females...if you want
> to ship them along so I can sex them (I'll pre pay the shipping via UPS)
> I'll pay you via paypal, credit card, or check...whichever you prefer
> after I've verified they're females.
>
> I only need females at this time and would hate to get stuck with more
> males.
>
> Let me know,
> Thanks...
> Alex

----- Original Message -----
> From: "christopher j. godino" [email protected]
> To: "Alex Hue" [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Message about: Wholesale Reptiles
>
>
>>i will do that if you dont mind paying shipping both ways if one turns out
>>to be a male i think they are but its your risk i dont mind taking them
>>back if there not both girls.also i dont mind yo paying after you sex them >>thats fine.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Hue" [email protected]
To: "christopher j. godino" [email protected]
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Message about: Wholesale Reptiles


> Hello Chris,
> Heres what I can do...I'll pre-pay the shipping to me via UPS...if they're
> both girls or heck...if even one of them is a girl, I'll take them at
> $500.00....if they're both boys...then you'd have to take them back and
> pay for the shipping back.
>
> If that works...I'll shoot you over a pre paid UPS label either via fax or
> e-mail whichever you prefer.
>
> I'd prefer to have them shipped Tues (tomorrow) for Weds. if thats okay.
>
> Leachianus can be properly sexed at around 5 months old by popping to
> evert the hemipenes...but only by a very very experienced person.
>
> Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: "christopher j. godino" [email protected]
To: "Alex Hue" [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: Message about: Wholesale Reptiles

> alex let me know asap assuming one or both are females which i belive they
> are here is my payment info
> Chris Godino
> 1994 Beacon Street Waban Ma 02468
> Please overnight me a money order or postal money order and when you
> overnight it ups please make shure you sign it so they dont need a
> signature as no one is ever at my facility during afternoon to sign thanks
> chris

Here are the e-mail exchanges after I received these "5-6 month old" leachianus.

Hey Chris,
Just got your geckos in....are you kidding? these are no way 5-6 months old
like you told me. These are 6-8 weeks old at the most. You need to make
arrangements to have these shipped back to you. I'm pretty
disappointed....you told me these were 6 inches and 5-6 months old.

Alex

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [email protected]
> To: "Alex Hue" [email protected]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Message about: Wholesale Reptiles
>
>
>> Alex you are a expert with these animals and have been in the buisness a
>> much longer time than i have. I knew this early on which is what i hope
>> you understand that if i was trying to lie or cheat someone on leachies
>> it whouldent obv be someone who has great experiance with these animals.
>> Nor whould i ever scam someone but you know what im saying. I am stadning
>> firm that they are around 4 months of age and are around 4in-5in i
>> apolagize if i miss represented these animals to you and will be making
>> arrangments asap to get them back to me. We will also work out the
>> shipping you paid into them, i am a good person in reality and have no
>> intrest in having anyone angry or problems with anyone in the undustry i
>> will get the info for shipping out to you asap and hopefully we can get
>> this resolved. Last thing i wanted to say was your voicemail about you
>> need to act like a mature adult or W.e you said is very unnesacery my
>> phone lost connection and i walked to a diffrent place in my house to
>> call you. While doing this i got a call so it took me around a few min to
>> get back that is cell phones for you but understand thats why i lost you
>> and it took a min to get back > i will get info out asap
>> Thanks Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Hue" [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: Message about: Wholesale Reptiles

> Chris,
> You stated these were 5-6 months old...better yet, you advertised them as
> females...when I spoke with you, you stated they were TEMP SEXED and you
> couldnt guarantee them to be females...thats not what you're ad on
> kingsnake stated. I let it slide and even offered to buy them if at least
> one was a female.
>
> If you dont know what a typical (90% or better) of the leachianus on the
> market look like at 5-6 months old...then you shouldnt be selling
> them...period. A typical 5-6 month old leachianus is between 5-7 inches
> from snout to vent regardless of locale or morph.
>
> These leachies you sent me werent even 4 1/2 inches from snout to the tip
> of the tail !!!
>
> If you showed these leachies to ANYONE who works with them...they'll tell
> you the same thing I told you earlier....THEY ARE NOT TYPICAL 5-6 MONTH
> OLDS....not even close.
>
> The ONLY way to get ahead of any business is to be honest, truthful, and
> back up everything you say and offer with 100% certainty. There is no ifs,
> ands, or buts about it.
>
> I essentially have now wasted my time, efforts, and shipping costs (which
> I know you'll be reimbursing me for)...on these animals I have absolutely
> no use for nor can even wholesale, these animals if produced by me would
> wholesale for $150.00.
>
> You need to send me a check in the amount for $38.96 for the shipping
> costs I incurred on these misrepresented animals. I'm expecting to see
> this check within the next 7 days.
>
> Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Jr" [email protected]
To: "Alex Hue" [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: Message about: Wholesale Reptiles


> if you need a check i need your adress you want it going to Chris

and last but not least...here is the latest one telling me that I'm not getting re-imbursed for shipping because the guy he bought them from claims they are at least 5-6 months old.

From: "christopher j. godino" [email protected]
To: "Alex Hue" [email protected]
Subject: info
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:17:31 -0500

"Well, I sold them to you on July 4 and they hatched out probably 2 weeks
before that. So that would make them almost 5 months. They must be
getting big by now."

This is a email from my breeder and why i do not intend on sending back
shipping
Thank you

Stay away from this scammer...if you see any of his ads...run run run away.

 

[Chris@TSE]

He probably got them and they simply did not grow since he obtained them, lack of feeding I am assuming. Why he stated they were larger, who knows....

I'll be avoiding this one for sure, thanks Alex.

 

[Chris@TSE]

I especially like the 4" fly river turtles in his ad. a 4" specimen this long after they were deemed CITES II in mid-2004 would probably be illegal\smuggled import. Rather small to be legal.... Unless he simply did not feed those too since '04

I'm sure he has paperwork for those eh?

 

[Hues1]

what happened there Chris? I see your reading this thread under the username reptileboy1122, I believe you also go by reptiledealer? Havent you realized now that leachianus are a species that hasnt been proven to be temp. sexable with any accuracy whatsoever? Now your ad states 4 months old and 4-5 inches?

QUIT SCAMMING !

 

[Chris@TSE]

Who sold these to him Alex? I'm willing to bet they are still close if not exactly the same size they were upon original shipment to Chris. From the quoted text he gave you in his email that seemed to be from the original breeder/seller it stated they should be 5 months of age. If this is the case, it seems this is an obvious case of neglect/poor husbandry as well. Depends on when they were originally sold to him I guess, if the original seller is correct... given my experience, I would think they would have had to been off feed, or offered VERY little feed for a period of a month to two months. Perhaps a bit longer depending on how well they carried their weight upon arrival. Not a huge lechie guru, correct me if I'm off someone....

I'd like to hear from the original breeder, I think it is safe to say this Chris individual is a bit unsavory, but it would be informative to hear a bit more from more people who have some experience with this individual, and possibly the person who can attest to the true age of these animals. Don't mind me if I sound more concerned about the sizeage of the animals and whether or not they were deprived adequate care, it just troubles me to hear things like this and I feel it also may shed more light on this individuals character.

It would also be nice to hear the other side of this story, not that I am doubting you, but its always good to hear both sides of a situation, or at least hear what this person has to say for himself.

Either way, I hope this person does the right thing and at least refunds your freight funds..... It would be a small step in the right direction for this person.

 

[Clay Davenport]

First they were 5 months old. Now they're 4 months old. But the email from the breeder, assuming it is genuine, confirms they are indeed 5 months old.
However, that's still not in his best interest since if he can prove they are five months old he will also prove he hasn't cared for them properly since they were in his possession or they would have been larger.

The thing though that would have put me off the deal right from the start was his first email.
Now I realize that some people do have a problem with typing and sometimes spelling that in no way reflects on their person. There are some mature, educated adults that simply have trouble in these areas. However, when I see an email like that the first thing I always think is this is a kid, and if not a kid an uneducated adult not long out of their teens trying to act like a business.
A typo is one thing, but when they apparently have an inability to spell words over 6 letters, and constantly use abbreviations like b4 and ne1 in business correspondance it looks anything but professional or adult and I generally err on the side of caution and pass on the whole transaction.

 

[Griz]

The thing though that would have put me off the deal right from the start was his first email.
Now I realize that some people do have a problem with typing and sometimes spelling that in no way reflects on their person. There are some mature, educated adults that simply have trouble in these areas. However, when I see an email like that the first thing I always think is this is a kid, and if not a kid an uneducated adult not long out of their teens trying to act like a business.
A typo is one thing, but when they apparently have an inability to spell words over 6 letters, and constantly use abbreviations like b4 and ne1 in business correspondance it looks anything but professional or adult and I generally err on the side of caution and pass on the whole transaction.

That about summed it up for me. His inability to put a rational thought down on paper in a coherent and grammatically correct manner would have turned me off from the start. Thanks for the warning on this guy!

Griz

 

[Chameleon Company]

Hey Alex,

I am not into this species, but thank you for bringing a warning here for those who may have reason to do business with Chris R. I don't think he rises to the level of a scammer though. The description of the animals may have been way off, as well as the validity of the sex claim, but its possible he was just acting as more of a middle-man, was himself quite ignorant to the species, etc. That is not excusing it, it is wrong, and worthy of a heads-up in the BOI. But he did something which many others would not, in that he shipped to you without payment, for your inspection. In spite of all the other inaccuracies, deliberate or otherwise, it removes the "scammer" label for me. Whether he would have sold them to someone else, without a pre-inspection, and then not honored a refund to that very dissappointed customer, we don't know.
The honorable thing to do with regard to your case would be for him to reimburse your shipping costs to have the animals sent initially to you, which you seek. But I don't see this clearly agreed upon in your arrangement. After the animals have been received by you, and you have communicated your disappointments, all I see is him saying that you and he will have to "work something out", and while he seems to be leaning in that direction, and does pay for shipping back to him (?), he then decides not to reimburse, although I think he cites a poor reason. In hindsight, my position would have been that I would send them to you for inspection if you pay that portion of the shipping, and I would pay return shipping if you did not buy all, all of which should have been agreed upon in advance.
I have to grimace as well in deciphering his grammar, spelling, continuity of thought, etc, but I don't see it as a "red flag". I don't think it adds or detracts form his ability to be an honest business person.
Again, I thank you for the heads up, and think that this case once again demonstrates the need for a solid pre-agreement of terms. Any lawyer will tell you that contacts, TOS, etc, are not for when things go right, but rather for when things go wrong. I would hope that Chris would send the $38.

 

[Chameleon Company]

My apologies, but all references to "Chris", or "Chris R." in the above post refer to Chris Godino. Need another caffeine fix this A.M.

 

[The BoidSmith]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "christopher j. godino" [email protected]
> To: "Alex Hue" [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Message about: Wholesale Reptiles
>
>
>>i will do that if you dont mind paying shipping both ways if one turns out
>>to be a male i think they are but its your risk i dont mind taking them
>>back if there not both girls.also i dont mind yo paying after you sex them >>thats fine.

This is what Chris said in his e-mail. He agreed to Alex's terms and was willing to pay shipping both ways if even one turned out to be a male. IMO he needs to reimburse the shipping as was agreed upon.

Regards.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Dan, maybe there's a mix-up here

As I read just the quote you took above, Chris is saying to Alex " if you pay shipping both ways" he will send on approval. It is not Chris agreeing to pay shipping. It is a proposition to Alex to pay. This interpretation is consistent with what Alex says in his next note, which is

> Hello Chris,
> Heres what I can do...I'll pre-pay the shipping to me via UPS...if they're
> both girls or heck...if even one of them is a girl, I'll take them at
> $500.00....if they're both boys...then you'd have to take them back and
> pay for the shipping back.

This seems to indicate that Alex is OK with each paying shipping one way if they are improperly sexed. It is later, once he has received the animals, that Alex feels the animals were grossly mis-represented, and that he should be reimbursed for his half of the shipping arrangement. That's how I read the exchanges, and id nothing else, feel that the arrangements was not clear at worst.

 

[Jungle Gems]

You may have no legal recourse in this case...

...as I believe Chris Godino is still a minor. I used to browse AltPet.net quite often about two years ago. Chris was 15 years old at the time advertising exotic animals at outrageous prices (2000.00 for baby albino Raccoons and such). That would put him at 17 years of age now, unless he very recently had his 18th birthday.

Good luck!

 

[dzoo]

All this over $40 ?

I doubt "legal recourse" is needed over $40 shipping.....................
and I have to say it was very unusual and trusting for Chris to ship the geckos to Alex without payment (although Alex is well known), doesn't sound like a scammer, just improperly described animals - perhaps, in the future, a PHOTO of the animals beside a ruler or dollar bill would give a better idea of size before putting the animals through the stress of being shipped twice!

Apparently Alex is really mad about this since he also started a thread in the mammal BOI even though his deal had nothing to do with mammals. At the most he is out what, $40 for the return shipping?

IF YOU HAD UTILIZED THE BOI BEFORE MAKING THIS DEAL, there was already a thread about Godino that could have saved you a lot of frustration:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42194&highlight=Godino

A well known breeder is selling "large hatchling" Leachianus for $500 each - http://www.pythons.com/hamper/avail.html
- and also advertising "incubated to be females" so is Alex just upset because he thought he was getting a killer deal that didn't pan out? I do not know much about the market on these but 2 for $500 seems like a good deal compared to $500 ea.

At any rate I would still be leery of Chris due to the other thread, but besides the geckos being undersized (which a photo beforehand would have solved) and the quibble over shipping costs I don't think the scammer label is warranted but "Caution" definately is!

Jon Cheris

 

[Hues1]

So I guess if I didnt insist on him shipping first (felt kinda, look kinda, smelled kinda fishy from the get go)...I wonder where would we be now...I was told 5-6 inches from snout to vent...these things werent even 4 1/2 inches from snout to tip of the tail. Lets imagine for a second that payment in full would've been made from the get go...what makes anyone think a $500.00 refund for mis-represented animals would've ever occured if a $40.00 shipping charge wasnt re-imbursed after it had already been agreed upon ?!

From: "christopher j. godino" [email protected]
To: "Alex Hue" [email protected]
Subject: info
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:17:31 -0500

"Well, I sold them to you on July 4 and they hatched out probably 2 weeks
before that. So that would make them almost 5 months. They must be
getting big by now."

This is a email from my breeder and why i do not intend on sending back
shippingThank you

Lets even say for just one minute that these things were/are/might be 5-6 months old....what part of 5-6 inches from snout to vent was accurate ?

Oh well...live and learn I guess. But then again...we dont even know if these things were 5-6 months old...no breeder info, no info on whom he purchased them from, no verification of poo poo.

If you ask me...he was fishing for a newbie buyer of sorts and that in my book equals scamming, the only difference is...I didnt send $500.00 before hand !

 

[Chameleon Company]

Alex, you have to lighten up

I made no bones earlier that the honorable thing for Chris to do was reimburse you the $38 shipping, not because he violated the terms between you regarding this approval shipment, which he did not, but because the animals were innacurately described. But your post condemns him as a "scammer" under the hypothesis that he was "fishing for a newbie", and on making assumptions as to what might have happened had such a "newbie" paid up front, and now be trying to recover his investment. But we don't have to conjecture about what might have happened ..... we have what did happen. You posted it all, remember ? Chris sent you animals on approval, a huge extension of trust on his part. Both of you are now out one shipping cost. I have no doubts that you would not have even bothered had you known the actual size of the animals, and there are a number of ways that could have been avoided. But you did not invoke all reasonable safeguards. Bottom line, you throw around the label "scammer" a bit too easily for some of us to agree with you. Almost no one ships on approval to someone they don't already have a good history of business with. And then you go and post it to a mammal forum? $38 ... get over it! If you didn't come across as such a crybaby, maybe more would support you here.

 

[Hues1]

well...with that said, I can only imagine that its okay to misrepresent animals...and have the buyer out of some money regardless of the amount.

"Both of you are now out one shipping cost"

Just to clarify...why should I be out the $40.00 for shipping?...I guess I'm a tad slow and dont see how this is okay.

The guy knew he sent me smaller than represented animals, he told me he would reimburse me for shipping once we shipped them back...once we got them shipped back, he sends a e-mail stating he wont be reimbursing me...if anything, I do believe he at least SCAMMED me for the return shipping charges. Or is that okay too?

Thank goodness I dont run my business that way.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Alex,
No one is claiming that it is OK to "misrepresent animals", and for you to make that innacurate paraphrase seems to indicate that you yourself are a bit weak on the facts, now that a few have expressed opinions contrary to the conclusions which you drew. Let me point out that you agreed that, after receiving some animals on approval, the situation was possible that you would buy neither, return them, and be out your initial shipping cost. The scenario was that both animals are male! In any approval, and certainly within the communications between you and Chris, you were under no obligation to buy them if you didn't like them. By your own stated and acceptable allowable conditions, you are exactly where you are now ... no animals and out $38 !! More than anything stated in any of your posts here, your pathetic post in the mammal BOI, a corner of the world that never sees the light of day, borders almost on malicious intent !! So you can't handle everyone not agreeing with you? What's next, the duckbill platypus BOI (at least they lay eggs), and then what, do you hire a skywriter to fly over a Chris' home town ?? Its not about "what-ifs" or carte-blanche to misrepresent animals. Its about your rejecting animals sent on approval, and being disappointed. Had Chris not trusted you, and demanded a deposit, or payment in full that was not returned, then OK, you have a real solid complaint. But beyond pointing out that his animals were poorly described, which is very valid as a complaint, there's not a whole lot to hang your hat on here, and IMO, you've taken considerable liberties with wanting to trash someone here beyond the event as it occured. I would do business with Chris in light of how he conducted himself in his transaction with you. I would ask for pictures as recommended by another in this thread, but the "downside" as exposed by you is not as egregious as you make it sound.

 

[SPJ]

Could it be that this kid really did make an honest mistake?

Maybe he believed the person he got the animals from and really never bothered measuring them? Heck. Some people do not know what STV vs TL measurements are.

I don't think he would have sent them without payment if he was trying to scam you.

It just looks like this time it might be an actual mistake instead of someone trying to scam someone.

 

[The BoidSmith]

One thing, maybe two could be mistakes. But when one start adding up: males advertised as females, inaccurate length, and not honoring previous commitment to pay the return shipping…well, that’s it for me. He is not in the “circle of trust” anymore.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Uhh ...err .... no guarantee as to sex, that's why they were sent on approval, and acknowledged by both parties as being not guaranteed because sexing was difficult, and Chris did pay return shipping, as per the agreement ... or at least that point is not challenged. Alex wanted reimbursement for the initial shipment to him ,which he had agreed to pay for. After that its murky, as they apparently did not have all contingencies in writing. Are we reading the same thread Dan?