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Clarification on Pay Pal

KNOBTAIL

KNOBTAIL

LORD OF THE FLIES
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I have an opportunity to buy some geckos, and the customer does not take credit cards other than Pay Pal. He wants to charge me 3% as a transaction fee. What are the issues regarding this. I happen to have a terminal for credit cards and debit cards as well, but would not consider charging anyone anything other than the actual charge. Its against the charge card rules. Would this apply to PayPal as well ? JERRY TRESSER
 
PayPal does not allow it! In their terms it says they can't do that! I would point this out, if he still wants it tell him to get bent! Also, up top, do a search for PayPal as it's been talked about a few times.

Man, I've offered 10% off for PayPal payments:)
 
I've been asked to do that . . .

. . . by pretty reputable people. I never liked it much - but if i wanted the animal . . .

When i sell, I eat the 3% as a part of doing business.

Seems a little petty to me to charge that extra 3 . . . .
 
Although, they

did not mention the 3% in their ad on Kingsnake, they do mention it in their payment section on their site. Their called KC REPTILE DIST. out of Kansas city.

Apparently they may be unfamiliar with the terms of PayPal, but before I said anything to them, I just wanted to be on a solid ground. Thanks GHOST. , JERRY TRESSER
 
MONTE, i guess

i always have the option of prepaying it if it becomes necessary. But I will have to play this one by ear. Meanwhile they seem to be very slow in answering my inquiries. That in itself makes me a bit reluctant to peruse this. Thanks for your imput. JERRY TRESSER
 
Jerry,

AS you already know it is illegal to charge a surchase for accepting cards through regular terminals it is the same for Paypal. Not only does it violate their TOS it violates credit card laws. Depending on their state it can violate state laws as well. California is one of the most strict states on those types of things. Below is the actual wording from Paypal's TOS page.

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms#receiving_payments

5. No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge"). You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods). Nor does this restriction apply to Pound-denominated transactions by sellers residing in the United Kingdom listing items for sale on a UK-based website.
 
Has anyone ever heard of a company or person getting in trouble for this? Just curious as I see this on a lot of sites in this industry.
 
When I first started accepting Paypal, I tried charging the 3% to the customer that I have to pay to Paypal (seemed fair to me). Paypal soon emailed me and told me that it isn't allowed and I had to stop if I wanted to continue to accept payments through them. If anyone shows them the website that states a surcharge is required, Paypal will let them know that practice is not acceptable.

Kathy Love
 
Jerry

I am only a few hours from KC, and I have NEVER heard of that company. Do you have a name for an actual person rather then just a business. I can do a bit of checking for you if you are that interested in the animal.

As for pay pal. I wouldnt call it "pety" to charge the 3%, allthough I dont myself. I have paid other vendors this fee, and can very well understand there reasoning. A perfect example of why the 3% ISNT petty is as follows. I just sold a 20 lot of amarili to a guy in Germany. He got them from me at COST, due to the fact I was in desperate need of a large amount of money, and didnt want to sell my future breeders, so I did what I had to do. Then after we work the deal, he tells me he wants to pay with pay pal. Now that "pety" 3% of 3500 (again sold AT COST) was around 150$. Then since the guy is from Germany pay pal OFFERS NO PROTECTION ON THE DEAL.

The buyer in his defence did offer to pay the 3% fee, but I informed him that was against pay pals rules, and could even be illegal, and that I wouldnt need him to do that. I was happy to not sell my breeding stock, so didnt mind eating the 150 on an allready worthless deal. However if you accept pay pal all the time, and are running a competetive business (much like reptiles) 3% of your PROFIT is a big deal. Heck with as bad as shows are theese days, and as slow as sales can be at times, and with everyone and there cousin asking for animals at wholesale prices, 3% is not pety (but it still isnt right to charge it....lol)

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
One measure I took was to open a second paypal account. One which cannot accept credit cards and therefore does not have the 3% fee. Payments can only be accepted from an existing paypal balance or from a bank account.
For large purchases, I have the option of not accepting credit card payments, but still being able to accept paypal for those who only want to pay that way. I also have that option for any order in which someone may be paying out of a balance anyway, and it saves the 3% along the way.
 
Mickey,

That shows us all a lot of integrity on your part that you did not ask for the 3% surcharge. I hope a lot more business comes your way because of it.

Thanks Much! Bruce.
 
It doesn't seem quite fair to me that a customer who pays by cash or money order has to pay the same price as one who uses a credit card or Paypal, considering it is cheaper for the vendor to deal with the former customer. I do keep payment methods in mind when a customer asks for a discount on a large order. I have seen some businesses actually raise all of their prices slightly, then offer a 2 or 3% cash discount. That is not against credit card rules (as far as I know) and seems fair. But it would make business more complicated and make overall prices seem higher, so I don't do that.

But however you work it out, the customers who use credit subsidize those who don't, because the vendor has to to somehow include those fees as a cost of doing business and charge accordingly. Those who don't will not be in business for long. I don't feel it is particularly "right" or fair to avoid charging extra to credit card users, but just the way it works out the best for my business, given the circumstances. The marketplace sets the groundrules and we all have to find ways to deal with them that both pleases the majority of our customers and still allows us to afford to continue our businesses.
 
Kathy, although

Paypal is foreign to me, I have had a terminal for 15 years. I basically take a different slant. I am not so concerned about the percentage loss from charge card companies as much as the assurance of "capturing the sale. " The monetary loss seems inconsequential in the yearly picture of sales. The loss I attribute to my advertising . The convenience of having the customer consummate the sale is my primary goal.

Also, their are no rules that indicate that you cannot ask for
Cash Only Sale. It all depends on how flexIble you want to be in your transactions. JERRY TRESSER
 
Yes, I agree. You have to take all of those things into account (extra sales volume, as well as the other things mentioned) and decide what works best overall all. I used to do cash, check, money order only. I am not a large enough business (one person, basically) that I wanted to deal with all of the credit card bookkeeping that we had to deal with when I was part of Glades Herp. But Paypal does simplify it for me, and their fees are probably what I would pay a credit card company anyway for my volume of business and the fact that I am mailorder instead of walk-in (merchants get better rates when the customer is there in person to sign the slip). So they are worth it to me.

But in answer to somebody who talked about their guarantee, I don't believe it is valid for live animals anyway. If you read their small print, there are a lot of exemptions. However, the fact that only account users can send money, and their address is verified by Paypal, helps avoid theft. Back during the Glades Herp days, we had several customers use fraudulent cards and we lost some money. But that has never happened (knock on wood!) to me through Paypal because it tells you when an unconfirmed address is being used. If I had any doubts about a customer, I would make them ship to a confirmed address only.
 
I'm more often a buyer than a seller, and will usually disregard an ad that states they expect me to pay the 3% surcharge.

But let us suppose I wanted to sell a high end boa, and accepted Pay Pal as payment (which as a personal preference don't). As the seller, I'm the one that sets the price for the animal. If my absolute final price (to make some money or maybe even breakeven) is $1,000, then my asking price will be $1,030 "firm". If someone wants to pay through Pay Pal I'm still covered, and no policy has been broken. If someone wants to send a money order instead I can even encouage them to send it overnight and deduct the cost (approx. $13) from the asking price and still be covered.

Regards.
 
These are all great solutions,

in insuring a hassle free sale. In my particular situation. When I went to the site which was: http://www.kcrd.com and went to their payment section, they specifically indicated a 3% surcharge. Thats what prompted my inquiry. They did not however mention it in their classified ad (see GECKOS) dated 12/03 on Kingsnake.
(RARE YUCATAN BANDEDS FOR SALE). Anyway, thanks for the information, I know now what I have to do if I decide to persue it. JERRY TRESSER
 
I am Jason Hormann, owner/operator of KC Reptile Distributors. I was not aware that I could not charge the 3% fee, I just assumed it was Kosher since I know of a lot of breeders that do charge this fee. However they call it a service fee or finance charges.

I also know that some of my wholesalers charge this, they include it in there "box charges" I guess I will start doing this instead.
 
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