The Whole Story
My dealings with Chris Guida of CMG Reptiles began last July. He had an ad on kingsnake for 1.2 adult greybanded kingsnakes, for $330. I bought them, and the next day I sent him a postal money order via USPS Express. I even sent him a tracking number. It reached him the next day, a Friday. Chris said he would ship the following Monday, via Airborne Express. That had to be delayed a week, because I found out that I was going on a trip to Maine with my father.
So, the following monday Chris shipped me the snakes. He gave me the airborne express tracking number, but when I tried to check on my package the next morning, it said the number wasn't correct. I e-mailed Chris, and only then did he inform me that he had switched to UPS. He gave me the right tracking number, and the package arrived at 10 AM, August 5th.
Right away I knew there was something wrong, because the box smelled. I mean the box Really smelled. I, along with my sister, opened the box, and found that one of the three snakes was dead. I e-mailed Chris immediately, informing him that one of the snakes had died.
He replied:
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OK LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THE 2 THAT ARE ALIVE AND ALSO WHICH ONE DIED EITHER MALE OR FEMALE. IM GOING TO CALL THE BREEDER I DEAL WITH ON COLUBRIDS THAT I GOT THEM FROM AND WORK THIS OUT ON MY END. JUST TAKE A PIC OF THE DEAD ONE AND SEND IT TO ME AND IM ALSO GOING TO CALL UPS AND MAKE A CLAIM THROUGH THEM. I CAN EITHER REPLACE THE ANIMAL OR WE CAN FIGURE SOMETHING OUT. NOW THESE GUYS CAME FROM A RESPECTED BREEDER SO I REALLY DOUBT DISEASE IS INVOLVED. THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN IN THE UPS TRUCK WITH TOO MUCH HEAT CAUSE UPS PICKED THEM UP LIKE 6 HOURS EARLY CAUSE I SCHEDULED THE PICKUP FOR AFTER 6 PM AND THEY CAME BEFORE NOON SO I WILL TAKE CARE OF IT AND IM SORRY BUT DONT WORRY I STAND BEHIND EVERYTHING I SELL EVEN IF I DIDNT PRODUCE THEM SO ILL MAKE SOME CALLS AND GET BACK TO YOU IN LIKE AN HOUR. THANKS ALOT
CHRIS
CMG REPTILES
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Now, I've never had UPS pick up a package from me, but I would think that if they picked it up before noon, the snakes would have had to be in the box and taped up before noon. Also, if it was going to be such a hot day, and they were going to be in the box for so long, why not put in a cold pack?
Anyway, moving on. After some thought, I decided not to keep the two remaining animals. I couldn't take the chance that the snake had died from something that could infect my collection. I e-mailed chris my decision, and sent him three pictures of the DOA. I told him that "i'd actually rather just get a refund instead of replacements, if it's ok with you. unless you have anything special you'd be willing trade.. feel free to bounce ideas off me. we'll figure something out, i'm sure."
He wrote back:
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let me know what else you are looking for and im sure i can make it worth your while or i can do a refund its up to you. let me know. thanks alot
chris
cmg reptiles
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So, I asked him if he could find me any trans-pecos ratsnakes. I even said, "i know i'm asking a lot to try and find any, but you asked. if you can't find any, it's ok."
He replied:
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ok no problem
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(^^This becomes important later)
Moving on, after keeping the remaining greybands overnight, I shipped them back to him the next day. The day they arrived, chris told me he had a line on the greybands, and he also had a friend that had a trio of greybands, if I wanted to go that way. I told him that I would rather the trans-pecoses, but if that didn't pan out then I'd take the greybands.
He said
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OK COOL ILL KNOW SOMETHING BY THE END OF THE WEEK
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A week later I hadn't heard anything, so I e-mailed him. He told me he was going to the Daytona show, and that a friend of his had what I was looking for. Another week went by, and I e-mailed him again, asking if he'd found what I was looking for at Daytona. He replied:
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i have found a few and im going to send pics to see if that is what your looking for. mand i can locate some triple het trans if your intrested also
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A few days went by with no pics, so I asked him if he could send me the pics. He replied:
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sure will but im thinking these guys are blonds but ill let you decide what you think. i am picking them up tomorrow at the show im doing in va so i will send them tomorrow to you and if you want them i can ship to you monday morning
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My reply:
***
shipping monday would be fine, i just need to see pics first. are they in fact blondes, or normals?
i also need to know how many, and what ages and sexes before i can have you send them to me.
thanks
-ellen
***
His reply:
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THEY ARE BLONDES. I CNA GET PICS OUT TO YOU AND THE WAY IM GOING TO HAVE TO DO IT IS HAVE THEM SENT TO YOU FROM NEW YORK FROM A FRIEND OF MINE WHO DEALS ALOT IN RATS. ALSO LET ME KNOW HOW MANY AND SEXES SO WE CAN FINISH THIS DEAL CUASE I WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE HAPPY WITH THE OUT COME OF THE DEAL.
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Two days later, he sent this:
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I AM TRYING TO GET THE HETS YOU WANTED AND MAYBE I CAN SEND YOU A 1.1 OF THE HETS AND A 1.1 SUBS OF THE BLONDES SINCE YOU HAVE HAD TO WAIT THIS LONG.
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Just to clarify, I had mentioned interest in subocs het for the various color morphs. By the end of that week, I'd heard nothing new, so I e-mailed him again to ask how things were going.
Two weeks went by before I got this:
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HEY ELLEN THE TRANS PECOS WILL BE SHIPPED TO ME MONDAY AND I WILL TAKE PICS AS SOON AS THEY ARRIVE HERE AND AGAIN I AM SORRY FOR THE DELAY BUT BELIEVE IT OR NOT THESE HAVE BEEN THE HARDEST SNAKES I HAVE EVER HAD TO FIND. ALOT OF PEOPLE HAVE SAID THEY HAVE THEM AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY DONT AND ALL THAT BUT I HAVE LOCATED A PAIR THROUGH A FRIEND IN MAINE AND I WILL HAVE THEM TUESDAY SO LIKE I SAID I WILL HAVE PICS FOR YOU AS SOON AS THEY ARRIVE AND I WOULD LIKE TO HOLD OF SHIPPING TO YOU TILL LIKE THURSDAY FOR A FRIDAY DELIVERY JUST SO THEY ARE NOT TOO FREAKED OUT FROM ALOT OF TRAVEL IN A ROW. LET ME KNOW YOUR SCHEDULE FOR THIS WEEK
THANKS ALOT
CHRIS
CMG REPTILES
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I asked him whether they were normals or blondes, and their ages. I got this:
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THEY JUST CAME IN AND LOOK GOOD I AM GOING TO TAKE PICS IN A FEW
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By the end of the week, I'd received no pictures, so again I e-mailed him. He said he'd send them later that night. I asked him to tell me their ages and sexes along with the pics.
Finally, he sent me two pictures of the trans pecoses. I'll put them up as soon as I get them uploaded. He sent a response along with the pics:
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HERE YA GO SORRY FOR THE WAIT BUT ITS BEEN CRAZY HERE SINCE THE HURRICANE BUT AS YOU CAN SEE THE POSSIBLE BREEDING ACTIVITY BETWEEN THESE GUYS WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN DOING FOR THE PAST FEW DAYS SO YOU MAY HAVE A GRAVID ANIMAL IF THEY KEEP IT UP. ALL THAT I KNOW ABOUT THEM IS THEY ARE HEALTHY AND EAT WELL AS FAR AS AGE IM NOT TO SURE. IT WAS 1 OF THE HARDEST KINDS OF ANIMALS FOR ME TO FIND BUT THEY ARE ALL READY FOR YOU AND LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU WANT ME TO SHIP THEM OUT TO YOU. THANKS ALOT
CHRIS
CMG REPTILES
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First of all, the pictures weren't particularly clear, and both snakes looked a bit on the skinny side. one the snakes' spines seemed to be a bit noticeable, but it could have been the quality of the picture. One was also noticeably larger than the other. I asked Chris if he could take a close up of one or both of them, as I thought they looked thin. After almost a week, he sent this:
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hey ellen, when did you want me to ship? i just got back in town but im going to a show this weekend so next week looks good for me if that works for you. i know you want some individual pics which im going to send out to you tomorrow. let me know thanks alot
chris
cmg reptiles
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I e-mailed him telling him that I didn't want him to ship until I got clearer picture of the snakes. I got no response for another week, so I finally sent him this:
***
Chris, can i please either get those pics or a
refund??
-Ellen
***
A few days later, he e-mailed me. He told me that he'd been busy moving to a new facility, and that he would take better pics that evening. Frankly, by that time I was getting sick of waiting, so I told him that I would just rather have a refund, and that I'd be going to the Philly show, where I could pick up snakes for myself.
He said he would probably be at the philly show, at Outback Reptiles' table.
So I went to the show, and asked at Outback's table if chris was there, and they didn't know who I was talking about - not even the guy running the booth.
When I got home from the show, I sent an e-mail to Chris, asking for a refund (in the form of a money order) to be sent to me.
He replied:
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ok no problem will do
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That was on November 24th, 2003.
Since then, I have repeatedly asked for my money to be sent to me. First he said he would be sending it right after the New Year. When I finally threatened to post about him not refunding my money, he got angry with me, and sent stuff like this:
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REMEMBER I SENT YOU YOUR ANIMALS AND YES ONE DID NOT MAKE IT WHICH WAS A SHIPPING ISSUE NOT AN UNHEALTHY ISSUE. I TOLD YOU THEN I COULD SEND YOU A REFUND AND YOU WANTED ME TO FIND YOU A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ANIMAL AT THAT TIME WHICH AFTER GOING OUT OF MY WAY AND BUYING TO SEND TO YOU AND YOU WANTED PICS. SO I SENT PICS NOT ONCE BUT A FEW TIMES. IM SORRY THEY WERE NOT THE ANGLES OR QUALITY OF PICS YOU WANTED. SO IF I WAS GOING TO RIP YOU OFF I WOULD NEVER HAVE SENT YOU THE PICS OR FOR THAT MATTER EVEN RESPONDED TO YOU. BUT I AM NOT A RIP OFF ARTIST. YOU WILL GET A REFUND JUST AS SOON AS I CAN DO SO.
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First off, he's lying. He only sent me two pictures. He is right that I asked him to find me a completely different animal. That I completely admit to. But he could have said no. He told me "ok no problem" remember?
So I got angry...
***
i'm sorry chris, but i've tried being nice and i've tried being not so nice, and nothing has gotten me the $330 YOU OWE ME.
i have every e-mail you have sent me, and i will be posting them and my experience with you on the BOI tomorrow morning unless you give me a damned good reason not to. you're right, in that most people post on the BOI to ruin the reputation of people. i have every intention of ruining yours now that it has been over three months since i asked for a refund. i will do all i can to keep people from buying from you. my experience with you should be more than enough. i will also add to my list of accusations that as soon as i e-mailed you through kingsnake, your three ads there mysteriously disappeared.
i have absolutely had it with you. you are a liar and a theif, and i won't sit back and take it anymore.
***
Should I have said that? Eh, probably not. But I was mad, and I'm sorry that what I wrote apparently came off as a threat... as it got this response:
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NOT TOO SMART TO THREATEN ME VIA EMAIL AND ALSO NOT A VERY GOOD WAY TO GET WHAT YOU WANT EITHER. FIRST OF ALL LETS PUT THIS IN PERSPECTIVE. YOU FIRST ANSWERED MY AD ON THE GREY BANDS AND THEN I TOOK THEM OFF BECAUSE YOU WANTED THEM THAT IS WHY THE ADS WERE TAKEN OFF. SECOND NOWHERE IN MY AD DID IT SAY I WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR A SHIPPING RELATED DEATH. BUT I TOOK IT UPON MYSELF TO OFFER A BETTER SOLUTION. I COULD OF EASILY TOLD YOU TO ALL YOU WERE GETTING WAS A REFUND OF THE ONE ANIMAL THAT DIED. THEN YOU WANTED A PAIR OF TOTALLY DIFFERENT SPECIES WHICH I WENT OUT OF MY WAY AND PURCHASED. THEN YOU WANTED LIKE 400 DIFFERENT DAMN PICTURES FROM ALL KINDS OF ANGLES. I MEAN COME ON YOU WOULD THINK THIS DEAL WAS OVER A SPIDER BALL OR PIED OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH I GOT SICK OF DEALING WITH YOU TILL YOU TOLD ME TO SEND THE ANIMALS FINALLY WHICH I OFFERED TO DO A NUMBER OF TIMES.
YOUR THREATS OF POSTING ME DOESNT MEAN A DAMN THING TO ME BECAUSE OF THE WAY YOU JUST THREATENED ME IN EMAIL THAT IS SLANDER BUT YOU MUST NOT BE STUDYING LAW IN COLLEGE SO YOU WOULD NOT OF UNDERSTOOD THAT. SO DO WHAT YOU WILL IF YOU WANT TO RESOLVE THINGS THIS WAY THEN I WILL BE FORCED TO USE THESE THREATS FOR MY DEFENSE. SO THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT. IS 300 BUCKS WORTH IT TO YOU TO SLANDER SOMEBODY AND HAVE A LAWSUIT AGAINST YOU FOR THE PUBLIC DISPLAY OF SLANDEROUS REMARKS IN HOPES OF RUINING SOMEBODIES BUISNESS?
BE SMART WE CAN WORK THIS OUT EITHER WAY ITS UP TO YOU
CHRIS
CMG REPTILES
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Again, I asked only for close up pics for one or both snakes, so I could see if they were too skinny or not. And again, about finding completely different species - he could have just given me a refund. I told him it was ok if he couldn't find what I wanted. It was up to him, and he said he could probably find what I wanted.
Also, I NEVER told him to send me the animals. Yes he offered to send them multiple times, but I told him I wouldn't take them until I had pics, or clearer pics.
Furthermore, as I'm sure most of you know, Slander is an ORAL statement, not written. As anyone going to law school would know.
Finally, on the comment about spider balls.. I don't care if I'm buying a ten dollar or ten thousand dollar snake. I still want to see the animal, and know how old it is. If someone tried to sell you a snake, with not-so-great pics and without telling you the age, would You buy it?
Anyway, we go back and forth for a bit, arguing.
Then he tells me:
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ok look this is how this whole thing breaks down. i sold you the greybands for 300.00 shipped. which comes out to 270.00 for the snakes and 30 for shipping. then i paid 275.00 for the ratsnakes. so the way i look at it im out 5 bucks on the deal. now you want me to go an additional 330.00 in the hole and pay for your shipping costs as well? where does that make sence? i can post your ratsnakes and as soon as they sell i can have the buyer send you the money paypal directly. but that is the best i can do right now since you had me buy you animals that are proving to be ones that only a few people are intrested in.
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Another lie. He sold me the greybands for $330 shipped, not $300. I corrected him, showing him copies of his earlier e-mails, and he wrote back:
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ok i apoligize. look ill get this taken care of
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That was on February 27th.
I heard nothing from him for just shy of a month. Finally, he responded to one of my Many e-mails, saying:
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i am doing the white plains show in 2 weeks and im sure i can dump the
animals there
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I'd had enough of waiting, so I wrote:
***
It's been 5 months since I asked you for a refund. Please send me my $330 by the end of the week. Before you leave for white plains. I see on kingsnake that you're looking to buy lots from people, so I'm sure you have the spare money to pay what you owe me.
In case you forgot my address:
(edited out)
Sorry, but I'm just not waiting anymore. Nor should I have to.
***
He complained many times about having animals that no one wanted to buy, and that he shouldn't have to eat the cost. While I understand that, I find it interesting that not once did he put up an ad on kingsnake for them. I check kingsnake at least 5 times a day. So where was he trying to sell them? He'd get more money for them on kingsnake anyway.
I responded to one of his complaints:
***
And you said that you'd be able to sell them at white plains. So sell them. I refuse to wait any longer for the money you have owed me for five months. You bought the snakes. I didn't like them, and you wouldn't take additional pictures for me, so I asked for a refund. you said NO PROBLEM.
So send me my money.
***
I got this as a response:
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I SENT 6 PICTURES TO YOU . WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT AN 8 HOUR HOME
MOVIE?
IM NOT BEING STUCK WITH TAKING A LOSS ON THE ANIMALS WHETHER I HAVE
300.00
OR 300,000.00 IN MY HANDS.
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Again, a lie. He sent two pictures to me. And he could easily remedy his "loss" by selling the animals, but he's not trying to. That isn't my problem. And I told him so. Again.
Finally, on Wednesday, April 14th, he sent:
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OK COOL IT WILL BE A MONEY ORDER AND I WILL SEND IT OVERNIGHT FEDEX
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Suffice it to say, no money arrived. On the 20th, he sent me this:
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ellen just to give you an update because i transfered money from paypal on friday it didnt hit in my bank yet but it should be there in the morning and if it is i will be sending it out to you overnight
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Again, no money came. First paypal wasn't working, then he was in maine, so I posted here on Fauna. Once I did, Chris said that along with the $330, he will send me the pair of ratsnakes that were involved, for my inconvenience.
Since then, I haven't heard of him. He posted on this thread on June 1, but I've sent him numerous e-mails since then with no response.
IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE A COMPLETE COPY OF THE E-MAILS, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS ASK! It's just way way too long to post here. I'll have pics of the subocs up as soon as I get them uploaded.
