diablohogs
Hogaphile
"ghost"?
by ghost do you mean a snow crossed with a hypo or a muted hypo?
by ghost do you mean a snow crossed with a hypo or a muted hypo?
-
Responding to email notices you receive.
**************************************************
In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
-
IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed
=====================
Posted 08/15/2025
=====================
Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.
Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."
Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....
=====================
Addendum: 01/10/2026
=====================
Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....
Coloration Ethics
- Thread starter Intense Herpetoculture
- Start date
robin d.
New member
basically a super hypo pastel or muted hypo
This is a "ghost" that I own.
The coloration remained consistant until recently when I switched supplements to TRex at which point the coloration changed:
Please keep in mind that this second picture is photoshopped to bring the gecko out from the shadows, so the overall picture is a little off, although the coloration is accurate.
So where is the misrepresentation? Selling the gecko as a ghost or selling it under the influence of supplementation.
The coloration remained consistant until recently when I switched supplements to TRex at which point the coloration changed:
Please keep in mind that this second picture is photoshopped to bring the gecko out from the shadows, so the overall picture is a little off, although the coloration is accurate.
So where is the misrepresentation? Selling the gecko as a ghost or selling it under the influence of supplementation.
diablohogs
Hogaphile
photoshop
i cant really comment on the color change if you doctored the picture.
look what happened when i fed your "ghost" some new supplements!!!
i dont agree with using photoshop to doctor pictures. i feel that its too easy to enhance color. hopefully this is not widely practiced and is never done when representing breeders or available animals that are up for sale. that to me is unethical.
i cant really comment on the color change if you doctored the picture.
look what happened when i fed your "ghost" some new supplements!!!
i dont agree with using photoshop to doctor pictures. i feel that its too easy to enhance color. hopefully this is not widely practiced and is never done when representing breeders or available animals that are up for sale. that to me is unethical.
Attachments
The only thing done on the second picture is to adjust the contrast/brightness which obviously can affect the quality of the picture. If you are accusing me of altering the photo to intentionally sabotage this discussion you are mistaken.
diablohogs
Hogaphile
no no.
thats not it at all. im simply stating that:
A) for me to understand the color change i need to look at two undoctored photos.
B) i feel that people should not feel its ok to doctor photos when they are used for representing a particular animal or the lineage of a particular animal ( i.g. the parents of an animal that is for sale).
you felt the picture needed to be doctored for whatever reason. maybe it was the only picture you could take of the gecko, maybe you no longer own the gecko, maybe the gecko is breeding and has changed color as a result, maybe you no longer have a camera, or maybe your scanner is broken. i dunno. what i do know is i hope you dont do that to the animals that you sell. it wouldnt take much effort to turn a drab yellow hypo into a vibrant tangerine as i showed you. thats the only point im trying to make here. well that and maybe you should take another picture with better lighting so you dont need to doctor it.
thats not it at all. im simply stating that:
A) for me to understand the color change i need to look at two undoctored photos.
B) i feel that people should not feel its ok to doctor photos when they are used for representing a particular animal or the lineage of a particular animal ( i.g. the parents of an animal that is for sale).
you felt the picture needed to be doctored for whatever reason. maybe it was the only picture you could take of the gecko, maybe you no longer own the gecko, maybe the gecko is breeding and has changed color as a result, maybe you no longer have a camera, or maybe your scanner is broken. i dunno. what i do know is i hope you dont do that to the animals that you sell. it wouldnt take much effort to turn a drab yellow hypo into a vibrant tangerine as i showed you. thats the only point im trying to make here. well that and maybe you should take another picture with better lighting so you dont need to doctor it.
Okay we're having a discussion of the ethics of using nutrition to enhance the colors of an animal. I post an example of how nutrition can drastically affect the color of leopard geckos, and in my example it is in a negative way. And you come out and tell me I'm doing it to make a drab animal vibrant?
Not only are you insulting one of my post prized breeders, by calling it a "drab high yellow" but you are accusing me of using unethical methods to enhance my pictures to misrepresent them?
Not only are you insulting one of my post prized breeders, by calling it a "drab high yellow" but you are accusing me of using unethical methods to enhance my pictures to misrepresent them?
diablohogs
Hogaphile
whoa there...
you need to relax. you are on the defensive about this and i wasnt even attacking you. i was simply stating my opinion about color enhancing. sorry if i wouldnt call your "prize" breeder vibrant but it isnt. its a drab washed yellow which seems to be what you thought was so cool about it.
i wasnt even commenting on the animal i was simply illustrating what can be done with photoshop. if you enhance the look of your geckos ( adjusting contast, toggling the image variations ect...) you are misrepresenting your animal because they are graded on color and pattern.
my 2 cents on the ghost morph:
i dont agree with calling light colored hypos ghosts. what makes it a ghost? is it ghost like any other reptile would be a ghost. anery & hypo phenotype? or is it another (dominant?) strain of hypo that is lighter that has been labeled ghost? either way its just a light colored hypo to me. sorry if your offended. im just glad i didnt pay the $999.99 you are asking for it.
what do you mean by dominant hypo anyway? if i cross it with a normal gecko will i get all hypo offspring?
p.s. this is a discussion about coloration ethics. i was well within the discussion.
p.p.s. i see (given that that picture wasnt also doctored) where the change in diet brightened up your lizard.
you need to relax. you are on the defensive about this and i wasnt even attacking you. i was simply stating my opinion about color enhancing. sorry if i wouldnt call your "prize" breeder vibrant but it isnt. its a drab washed yellow which seems to be what you thought was so cool about it.
i wasnt even commenting on the animal i was simply illustrating what can be done with photoshop. if you enhance the look of your geckos ( adjusting contast, toggling the image variations ect...) you are misrepresenting your animal because they are graded on color and pattern.
my 2 cents on the ghost morph:
i dont agree with calling light colored hypos ghosts. what makes it a ghost? is it ghost like any other reptile would be a ghost. anery & hypo phenotype? or is it another (dominant?) strain of hypo that is lighter that has been labeled ghost? either way its just a light colored hypo to me. sorry if your offended. im just glad i didnt pay the $999.99 you are asking for it.
what do you mean by dominant hypo anyway? if i cross it with a normal gecko will i get all hypo offspring?
p.s. this is a discussion about coloration ethics. i was well within the discussion.
p.p.s. i see (given that that picture wasnt also doctored) where the change in diet brightened up your lizard.
Re: whoa there...
You say you're not attacking me and yet you continue with a condesending tone.
Ghost is what it was sold to me as, and that is what I will continue to call it. I will do so while giving full disclosure of what it is, however. And you have made it fully clear that you have read the entry on my website where I doso. You also know full well that it is not for sale. I could just as easily have listed it as $0.00 on my site, but naturally someone would have to try and order it.
Now I am posting this animal for the sake of this discussion because both its representation to me by the seller and the resulting change in appearance from the effects of one brand of supplementation make it topical. I am not posting to sell my animals or otherwise promote my business. It really makes me upset to think that in order to be given any respect by you I should find a way of hiding the fact that I have a successful business stemming from my love of this hobby.
diablohogs said:
You say you're not attacking me and yet you continue with a condesending tone.
Ghost is what it was sold to me as, and that is what I will continue to call it. I will do so while giving full disclosure of what it is, however. And you have made it fully clear that you have read the entry on my website where I doso. You also know full well that it is not for sale. I could just as easily have listed it as $0.00 on my site, but naturally someone would have to try and order it.
Now I am posting this animal for the sake of this discussion because both its representation to me by the seller and the resulting change in appearance from the effects of one brand of supplementation make it topical. I am not posting to sell my animals or otherwise promote my business. It really makes me upset to think that in order to be given any respect by you I should find a way of hiding the fact that I have a successful business stemming from my love of this hobby.
diablohogs
Hogaphile
im sorry
i was not intending to attack you like i said before. the reason i had a condesending tone is because thats what i read in your post. i mean no disrespect.
i was not intending to attack you like i said before. the reason i had a condesending tone is because thats what i read in your post. i mean no disrespect.
SFgeckos
New member
wow
im glad that u have such a positive attitude steve. i think if i was in your shoes, i wouldn't be too happy? i assume that u paid big bucks for the"ghost" morph male in the hopes of it being a recessive or inheritable trait...
however from the looks of it, i short of have to agree with chad...no offense, but in my opinon the "stud" male turned out to be an washed or faded hypo? just blown away that u are satisified with your purchase. i would definately recommend contacting the breeder and letting them know at the very least
-sfgeckos
im glad that u have such a positive attitude steve. i think if i was in your shoes, i wouldn't be too happy? i assume that u paid big bucks for the"ghost" morph male in the hopes of it being a recessive or inheritable trait...
however from the looks of it, i short of have to agree with chad...no offense, but in my opinon the "stud" male turned out to be an washed or faded hypo? just blown away that u are satisified with your purchase. i would definately recommend contacting the breeder and letting them know at the very least
-sfgeckos
Blazin
Blazin Reptiles
Reference to the Ghosts
That same breeder is now referring to them also AKA carrot tails. It was widely known that the gene with the Ray Hine line was dominant. -------BUT we didn't really see was that particular coloration with the Ray hine Carrot tails. It popped up later. I have the line and still have yet to see it. Its very interesting to me that more are not being hatched like them. They actually remind me of alot of Patternless and Blizzards. Actually those "ghost" dominant hypos remind me of the first animals Ray Hine used to produce his Carrot tails.
That same breeder is now referring to them also AKA carrot tails. It was widely known that the gene with the Ray Hine line was dominant. -------BUT we didn't really see was that particular coloration with the Ray hine Carrot tails. It popped up later. I have the line and still have yet to see it. Its very interesting to me that more are not being hatched like them. They actually remind me of alot of Patternless and Blizzards. Actually those "ghost" dominant hypos remind me of the first animals Ray Hine used to produce his Carrot tails.
Re: wow
I did not pay big bucks and I feel the animal is still worth what I paid, just not exactly what I bought him for. The trait is inheritable as far as any ray hines hypo (which display a level of dominance) or any line bred trait (snow/pastel in this case) is, seeing as it is a combination of those two traits. I knew exactly what it was when I purchased it and never tried to pass it off as anything else. I simply felt that a hypo that was line bred for paler colors as opposed to tangerines would be advantageous to my breeding projects. The gecko is still a washed out color but it has a strong yellow tone to it.
Now again the question comes down to this: if I change back to the supplements I was using previously, will the color revert?
All my animals that have been fed TRex have had an almost immeadiate improvement in coloration. Is this coloration a side effect of something truly benefitial or is it possible the supplement is designed to have color inhancing properties soley because color is the mark of a quality leopard gecko.
SFgeckos said:
I did not pay big bucks and I feel the animal is still worth what I paid, just not exactly what I bought him for. The trait is inheritable as far as any ray hines hypo (which display a level of dominance) or any line bred trait (snow/pastel in this case) is, seeing as it is a combination of those two traits. I knew exactly what it was when I purchased it and never tried to pass it off as anything else. I simply felt that a hypo that was line bred for paler colors as opposed to tangerines would be advantageous to my breeding projects. The gecko is still a washed out color but it has a strong yellow tone to it.
Now again the question comes down to this: if I change back to the supplements I was using previously, will the color revert?
All my animals that have been fed TRex have had an almost immeadiate improvement in coloration. Is this coloration a side effect of something truly benefitial or is it possible the supplement is designed to have color inhancing properties soley because color is the mark of a quality leopard gecko.
Intense Herpetoculture
We breed!
What do you mean Blazin? The first hypos that Hine was working with (WC stock) looked just like the "ghosts" being offered, a very light ghostly pale. Later Hine introduced tangerine bloodlines.
robin d.
New member
that is exactly what they are... it's his hypo line pre tangerine or yellow... they are from the original grouping. basically its the ray hine line hypo in it's most primitive form.
abolutely!! hey better color equals healthier animals in people mind........regardless if it's an unecisary amount that at best is no better than any other formulas but gives the impression it is by dramatic color changes.... take a look at the list of ingrediants.... alot of color enhancing ingrediants in it. now while other brands have the same ingrediants i would be willing to bet the percentages are much lower in the other formulas. also, could this extra ingrediants and sipplimentation becausing unknown harm in the lonh run??? we know that animals can get an over abundance and an overdose of vitamins and minerals
Three ingredients and descriptions taken directly from the T-Rex Website:
Spirulina Algae: Spirulina is another of natures “superfoods” It contains an excellent balance of vitamins, minerals, amino acids and trace elements. We use it primarily for its high levels of Beta-Carotene. (the highest natural source) Beta Carotene is transformed by the body into Vitamin A, and it is converted on an “as needed” basis. This helps avoid problems associated with excess preformed vitamin A in diets.
Haemotococcus Algae: Is included because it is the highest natural source of Astaxanthan on the planet. This part of the Carotene complex, is responsible for the red pigmentation in shellfish It is what turns a lobster red when you cook it It is what makes a Flamingo Pink, It is what makes Salmon meat pink. It is natures source of red pigment, and it is rarely found in commercial diets.
Marigold Extract: Is one of natures highest sources of yellow pigment. It is used for example to color the yolks of chickens in commercial farms that would otherwise not have the color found in free range birds. It is also the one of the greatest sources of the carotenoid lutein, a key ingredient necessary for healthy vision.
Spirulina Algae: Spirulina is another of natures “superfoods” It contains an excellent balance of vitamins, minerals, amino acids and trace elements. We use it primarily for its high levels of Beta-Carotene. (the highest natural source) Beta Carotene is transformed by the body into Vitamin A, and it is converted on an “as needed” basis. This helps avoid problems associated with excess preformed vitamin A in diets.
Haemotococcus Algae: Is included because it is the highest natural source of Astaxanthan on the planet. This part of the Carotene complex, is responsible for the red pigmentation in shellfish It is what turns a lobster red when you cook it It is what makes a Flamingo Pink, It is what makes Salmon meat pink. It is natures source of red pigment, and it is rarely found in commercial diets.
Marigold Extract: Is one of natures highest sources of yellow pigment. It is used for example to color the yolks of chickens in commercial farms that would otherwise not have the color found in free range birds. It is also the one of the greatest sources of the carotenoid lutein, a key ingredient necessary for healthy vision.
My 2 cents
Outstanding topic Justin. Here are my thoughts on the subject:
1st off how can we even argue and say its wrong? I'm not putting anyone down I'm just saying that, to be able to say it is wrong all leo breeders would have to feed their animals the exact same thing, with the exact same supplements. Am I correct in saying this? I mean I don't use exactly what Kelli uses, and she doesn't use the same supplements as Justin, who doesn't gutload the same as Marcia, who doesn't have the same diet as Robin and Steve. So no matter how you slice it the animals are going to look different..correct?
As far as the T-rex dust Steve is using, coloration isn't the only benefit. All the reviews I have read on the product says it increases the animals appetite and improves its over all healthiness, kind of like when we all switched to Miner-all a while back.
As Seamus stated(Happy to meet you Seamus, I'm Tim)the genes are there already inside the animal. I know when I'm on a proper diet and working out I look better, my immune system is at its peak, etc. We aren't talking about raidiating the creatures to change their genes, or giving them potentially harmful supplements to give them a better look, or cooking the eggs outside natural range to decrease pigment. I am sure that all of the breeders that I deal with Marcia, Kelli, Rob, Robin, Steve, Justin..etc. If I missed you I apologize
, found out food or supplements were giving their breeders and offspring harmful side effect that they would discountinue the use of said substance.
So in closing and I'm just a newby, but I have read your posts with great interest. I guess I stand by the rule most of you live by.If it doesn't endanger the animal then it is all right. now if you buy off of me as I'm sure is true of y'all on here too, and ask what I feed my leos, I'm going to be truthful and tell you. Now when I buy from Steve I will probably all ready be using T-rex, but if I'm not and I notice color fading I know how to bring it back
Great to be on here among all this knowledge. KS is really going downhill, all kids on there. Just my opinin...lol
Tim
This is what I call Geckos on the Brain:
Outstanding topic Justin. Here are my thoughts on the subject:
1st off how can we even argue and say its wrong? I'm not putting anyone down I'm just saying that, to be able to say it is wrong all leo breeders would have to feed their animals the exact same thing, with the exact same supplements. Am I correct in saying this? I mean I don't use exactly what Kelli uses, and she doesn't use the same supplements as Justin, who doesn't gutload the same as Marcia, who doesn't have the same diet as Robin and Steve. So no matter how you slice it the animals are going to look different..correct?
As far as the T-rex dust Steve is using, coloration isn't the only benefit. All the reviews I have read on the product says it increases the animals appetite and improves its over all healthiness, kind of like when we all switched to Miner-all a while back.
As Seamus stated(Happy to meet you Seamus, I'm Tim)the genes are there already inside the animal. I know when I'm on a proper diet and working out I look better, my immune system is at its peak, etc. We aren't talking about raidiating the creatures to change their genes, or giving them potentially harmful supplements to give them a better look, or cooking the eggs outside natural range to decrease pigment. I am sure that all of the breeders that I deal with Marcia, Kelli, Rob, Robin, Steve, Justin..etc. If I missed you I apologize
, found out food or supplements were giving their breeders and offspring harmful side effect that they would discountinue the use of said substance.So in closing and I'm just a newby, but I have read your posts with great interest. I guess I stand by the rule most of you live by.If it doesn't endanger the animal then it is all right. now if you buy off of me as I'm sure is true of y'all on here too, and ask what I feed my leos, I'm going to be truthful and tell you. Now when I buy from Steve I will probably all ready be using T-rex, but if I'm not and I notice color fading I know how to bring it back
Great to be on here among all this knowledge. KS is really going downhill, all kids on there. Just my opinin...lol
Tim
This is what I call Geckos on the Brain:
robin d.
New member
as far as geckos on the brain, TIM YOUR ADDICTED.
i stopped using mineral well over a year ago, it seemed like for pet leos and males it was fine but it didnt give adult females enough nutrients and i noticed in many of my breeders what seemed like they were not getting the corrected nutrients... they got thin very fast, lost alot of color mineral just didnt seem to do the job as a supliment for my adult breeder females producing eggs.
the thing i wonder is the effects of all-in-one minerals and suppliments like mier all and the t-rex diet, in the long run. i feel that these diets may cause problems later on... i can not see using an all in one suppliment everyday and if you are gutloading your bugs correctly i dont think you should use a suppliment but maybe a few times a month and as just what it states it is...... a supliment. i dont think supliments should be used to replace the fresh and natual vitamins and minerals of good fresh veggies and fruits that healthy bugs eat.
and i do believe certain vitamins and minerals do increase color (which is good) but how much of these vitamins and minerals is too much? and what ill effects can overdosing of vitamins and minerals cause in the future?
i think our leos can benifit from some of what steve has listed above however after out geckos needs are met what is being done with the rest??? i think too much yes will cause in effect a staining if you will, from the inside out... very much deceptive of genetics.
ya know you hear when people say.. well if a little works well than alot will work better???
and usually how alot does more damage than good.
you see and hear it all the time, about how overdoing it can hinder you, from doctors whom prescribe meds pharmacists and even dieticians which is based on scientific data...
why would our leos be different?
i stopped using mineral well over a year ago, it seemed like for pet leos and males it was fine but it didnt give adult females enough nutrients and i noticed in many of my breeders what seemed like they were not getting the corrected nutrients... they got thin very fast, lost alot of color mineral just didnt seem to do the job as a supliment for my adult breeder females producing eggs.
the thing i wonder is the effects of all-in-one minerals and suppliments like mier all and the t-rex diet, in the long run. i feel that these diets may cause problems later on... i can not see using an all in one suppliment everyday and if you are gutloading your bugs correctly i dont think you should use a suppliment but maybe a few times a month and as just what it states it is...... a supliment. i dont think supliments should be used to replace the fresh and natual vitamins and minerals of good fresh veggies and fruits that healthy bugs eat.
and i do believe certain vitamins and minerals do increase color (which is good) but how much of these vitamins and minerals is too much? and what ill effects can overdosing of vitamins and minerals cause in the future?
i think our leos can benifit from some of what steve has listed above however after out geckos needs are met what is being done with the rest??? i think too much yes will cause in effect a staining if you will, from the inside out... very much deceptive of genetics.
ya know you hear when people say.. well if a little works well than alot will work better???
and usually how alot does more damage than good.
you see and hear it all the time, about how overdoing it can hinder you, from doctors whom prescribe meds pharmacists and even dieticians which is based on scientific data...
why would our leos be different?