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Commercial Collection of native Herps

I

Intense Herpetoculture

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You know what really pisses me off, commercial collection of native herps for the trade. I am talking about mass collecting of tarantulas, horned toads, box turtles, collard lizards, etc. I mean, as long as it has proven to show that it can be substained, I don't have such a problem with it. Here in Texas we seem to be the state that everyone flocks to and I hate it. While we now require collectors to have a non-game collectors permit I wish they they would have max. take numbers, and possibally prohibit some WC specimens of species from commercial activity (Ornate box turtles & Rio Grande tarantulas).
 
I have issues with taking animals out of the wild to begin with but to do so just to sell or trade them just makes it more wrong. I believe that if anyone ends up with a native animal, they should give it away.

For example, I ended up with a native pacific gopher snake...I am the local shelter's reptile contact person. When they get snakes in, they call me to come and get them. This snake, that the driver wrote in as a python (LOL!), came in with wounds all over her body. I think she got hit by a car and was VERY lucky. I took her home, nursed her back and now she's ready to go to a new home. It would be illegal to release her here so I would have to place her somewhere or keep her myself. I was going to offer her to a school teacher, as a classroom pet, but a friend of mine wants her.

Anyway, my point is, I'd never sell her. Even though I donated $10 to the shelter when I took her home, she's just not sellable.
 
I am not saying I am against collection of WC herps, I just hate seeing herps collected in huge numbers destined to die in captivity because of the cheap price and poor transportation skills. If they are causing a noticable impact on the populations, well, that gets to me even more. I am all for CBB animals though. Really, I would like for WC animals to be collected and destined for the breeder market more then anything, I don't know.
 
Done properly... on species which have a sustainable or even overabundant population... There's nothing I can see wrong with pet trade collection.

Collared lizards are a good example. Since the species which consume them as prey require larger ranges and have more difficulties with human encroachment around the edges of open space, there are areas of collareds which will grow beyond the normal population density. Being collected, wormed and sold to a pet owner who's got a steady supply of crickets and heat lamps is a positive thing.

There's a bit of disagreement about what constitutes a sustainable population though. From the earlier posts it was implied that horned lizards are being collected in fairly large numbers. Crappy idea all around, not only are they piss-poor captives for anyone but the most dedicated individual but the population numbers of a few species have been plummeting like rocks because of fire ants. On the other side of the coin though you get species like rubber boas or heloderms which have good, healthy, suatainable and fairly large populations, but are under collection restriction because some dink of a state biologist went looking for them at the wrong time of year, couldn't find any because they were underground and decided that meant they were rare.

The aspect which involves individual animal's health should be dealt with within the hobby. If someone is selling animals to the end consumer (pet buying public with small personal collections) that haven't been wormed and gotten into good shape, then refuse to do business with them. Eventually financial pressure will either fix the problems or push them out of the industry.

The aspect which involves collection restrictions is tougher though. Trying to force a state government to spend money on a RELIABLE population study is difficult at best. It seems that the money to hire someone who deals specifically with herps isn't always there, so a general biologist or a different type of specialist who's employed already ends up dropping the ball. Bigger legislative issues here too, related closely to the subject of AR groups wanting to close the hobby entirely.
 
I see nothing wrong with herp collecting, not even for commercial purposes, so long as a genuine and well qualified attempt is made to restrict the number of animals that can be taken. Right now, such numbers are lacking in the Texas hunting regulations. They seem dependent upon honest commercial/dealer collectors to buy licenses in order to determine how many dealers/collectors are out there collecting more than 25 of one species at a time. Yes a license is only required if collecting more than 25 of a species or if you are a dealer (if I read the rules correctly). I prefer to see some much more restrictive limits placed on species that require restrictive limits, and higher less strict limits on species that are in abundance. Changing the status of animals from non-game to game animals is one way to protect them - as all game animals usually have a take limit. Of course they can remain non-game species and have limits placed on them. A possession limit of x amount of animals has certainly got to be better than being allowed to take limitless amounts of a resource.

Texas, by requiring such permits, has taken a step in the right direction, albeit a small one, regarding collection of wild herps. It may take some effort on your part to have them improve. Why not start a letter writing campaign. Or why not get out and take some surveys of herp collectors to see what they are catching. If you go about this correctly, the state may fund your efforts.

Your dealing in CBB herps is also commendable, but you must remember that if you breed any native species of Texas herp and then sell them, make sure you have a collector's or dealer's permit yourself! This even applies if you breed something as plentiful as are Banded Geckos; and applies even if the Gecko you are breeding is a 20th generation captive born/bred specimen.

Best regards,
Glenn B
 
Your dealing in CBB herps is also commendable, but you must remember that if you breed any native species of Texas herp and then sell them, make sure you have a collector's or dealer's permit yourself! This even applies if you breed something as plentiful as are Banded Geckos; and applies even if the Gecko you are breeding is a 20th generation captive born/bred specimen.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that law is no more, let me double check though.
 
Now that took a while to find again, and I am not sure what convoluted path I went down to get here but here is the link to the FAQs URL=http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/conserve/permits/faq/]Texas FAQ About Non_GAme Permits[/URL] and here is a link to the Texas Wildlife Permits Page under which the above is tucked away. It was last updated back in December 2003, so my guess is it is pretty up to date.

All the best,
Glenn B
 
Thanks for checking up on that, Glenn, I forgot about it. My husband was on the Commitee among several ohters that helped draft the law, and i thought he had mentioned awhile back that the law was no longer in effect. I will still check up on it just to make sure, although according to the link you provided it is, so I would definitely advise all to go by that.

As far as collecting goes, I don't have a problem with most of it, within reason. I know there have been some issues about the commercial collection of box turtles in Texas, but I don't know enough about that issue to really talk about it, so I'll leave it to those that do.

A bit off topic, but for me, there is nothing more exciting than driving out West and hunting for alterna, subocs, bairdi, lepidus, Coleonyx etc etc. I think the most thrilling moment I have ever experienced herpwise was pulling my first alterna off a road cut on HWy 277. Definitely taught me what the termn "alterna rush" is all about!
 
The most herps I have ever seen in one day/night were in Arizona on the roads at night, the second most were near Laredo also at night - both times right after a rain - we counted about 1,000 toads in AZ in one night then gave up counting. It is truly amazing how many WDRs there were around Laredo, and how many Mojave Rattlers there were in AZ. The neatest snakes I think I ever saw while out looking were a couple of Hook Nosed Snakes I saw not too far from Laredo. At first I thought they were Hognose babies, but on closer examination they were Hook Nosed. Pretty neat snakes.

I don't know about trying any road collecting near Laredo too many cars on the roads, and come to think of it, AZ is like that now too. Probably illegal nowadays too. My son and I saved a 6 foot plus Gopher Snake from certain death on a roiad in AZ about 2 years ago. Got it off he road in the nick of time, a car doing about 70 was about to cream it. I mean, it was safe enough for me to grab the snake without fear of being hit, but a few seconds later and the snake would have been minced meat.

It is always neat though when you spot a snake on the raod. I have gotten to the point where I sometimes see them when I am driving at the speed limit and just looking at the road as I normally would while driving.

I imagine finding a nice Blairs kingsnake must be a true rush, as would a Trans Pecos Rat Snake for me (thats the influence of Kaufeld speaking there).

Best regards,
Glenn B

much nicer thread than the other one, I prefer it like this
 
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