Bad Guy Craig Wyatt Scammer Bad Guy Selling Sick Animals

[Andy_G]

Maybe because i have worked with chams for 15 years so i guess i may know what im doing but keep asking me stupid questions and prove that your just reaching you are just as big a low life as craig. ASK CRAIG HOW THEY GOT SICK ASK HIM WHY HE SHIPPED EM ASK HIM ALL THESE QUESTIONS YOU BOTTOM FEEDER

The stress that an animal goes through during shipping and acclimation can weaken their immune system responses in such a way that it can create vulnerability to a harmless pathogen that's already present in your collection that doesn't bother the healthy individuals. It's something most people pic up on during their first year of keeping and learning from other people. The fact that you haven't learned this over your 15 years of involvement with these animals actually gives everyone here a really solid basis to question everything about your care, competency, as well as your capacity. I personally won't sell anything to someone who refuses to quarantine. Whether right or wrong in this instance, perhaps having no quarantine is a practice you should rethink...

 

[Fangthane]

it seems as if it is putting an official stamp of approval on such a letter which really according to the law, is not warranted.

Count me among those who don't think this whole vet. situation passes the smell test. It just makes me wonder if there may have actually been a nugget of truth to the following screenshot; if the letters are from that very same "partner". He does admit to having some relationship with Jay outside of this situation...

Taking the editorialization to the extent where Craig is specifically mentioned doesn't exactly seem very professional or objective to me. The choice to embrace such conjecture seems odd. Taking some extra steps to do a bro a solid, perhaps?

It's a sad commentary on one's credibility rating, when literally every word coming from his side of the fence needs to be so closely scrutinized and taken so well-salted. As much as he clearly wants to blame this forum for not taking him seriously, his own words and choices are solely responsible for the situation he's in.

Also, since it would seem that Jay has managed to convince the moderation staff that his surname is McKnight, it's weird that he's referred to as Mr. Ciccone in the letters. Makes me wonder just how many different names and IDs he may have.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

Jay, there are a few things I would like to see. And before you ask, I don't know Craig and have never done business with him.

First, where is the receipt from the vet?

Second, where are the pictures of each animal? First when they were sick and then again after they died? It should be easy to match up patterns to make sure they were Craig's animals.

I ask for these things mostly because you say you buy and sell a lot of animals. If you buy large numbers from people, it is very possible that you took animals to the vet, but they were not Craig's animals. Especially since you think you don't need to quarantine new animals coming in (this alone would make me never deal with you).

I would like to see proof of all these things. Being in the reptile business, you know it's required to send pictures of the deceased animals to the breeder as proof.

If you want people to listen to you, you first need to calm down and stop lashing out at everyone asking questions. This is how the BOI works. You want us to believe you over Craig, so start proving things. Not just a generic letter from the vet with no date or anything on it. That vet just listened to you when you said they came from Craig. He has no idea if it's true or not.

Kristi. Not only did I not recieve pics of dead animals he refused to send me pics from the first day he received them. I asked repeatedly.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

Jay I'm going to try again but change my wording a bit. In your video you say you only received 4 animals from me. Well how did 5 die and 3 are alive. Check your math your 2 very different stories are totally contradicting each other.
Also you claimed you sent me an additional mysterious money order for $1050 for 9 more animals. And I ripped you 100% on that deal. Why are you not mentioning this too?

 

[JButera]

Craig was suppose to send me 18 chameleons

Craig, can you explain this part or just bs?

 

[WebSlave]

Also, since it would seem that Jay has managed to convince the moderation staff that his surname is McKnight, it's weird that he's referred to as Mr. Ciccone in the letters. Makes me wonder just how many different names and IDs he may have.

Sorry, actually Harald has been handling this, but has been called away for a while with some personal issues. Sorry, I have not been following this name issue very closely, otherwise it would have been dealt with earlier. As it is, at this time Nick has taken point on this issue.

Jason Ciccone sent ID confirmation on August 26.
He has been advised that his ban will expire on 9/18/16, and that he should contact Rich via the Contact Us button to have the name in his profile changed prior to that date.

Mr. Ciccone has not notified me of the name correction, and as such is standing at the edge of the black hole if he does not comply. I believe he has been offered 24 hours by Nick to do so. This time the ban will be permanent and his window of opportunity to respond to claims here will have closed.

 

[EdwardK]

Since you've been keeping chameleons for 15 years, how hard would it have been for you to take some of your own animals that were sick and play it off like they came from Craig?

Why do so many people when they are caught by their own words with questionable husbandry practices think they can get out of the problem by claiming they "must" know what they are doing because they have been doing it for x amount of time?

If you were going to try and use the NJ Pet Protection Act as your "proof" (ignoring the fact that it only covers cats and dogs) why wasn't a course of treatment prescribed for those animals indicated in the letters? The only reason one wouldn't be prescribed would be if you declined or asked that one not be included. That is a demonstration of your level of care.

Again what was the route cause of the "MBD" in the chameleons? Was it too little calcium, too much phosphorus, too little D3, too much vitamin A, impaired calcium bioavailability due to feeder diet, kidney disease (to name some of the root causes)? Calcium has one of the narrowest safe tolerances of a major nutrient and if overdosed causes conditional deficiencies of micronutrients such as zinc and if heavily overdosed can react with the pH of the digestive tract and form insoluble/indigestible calcium soaps causing further uptake issues.

Blood work on the animals would have been required to determine if there was adequate calcium in the blood, to rule out kidney disease, etc. If no blood work or x-rays were done on the animals that would be your choice which then reflects badly on your level of care for the animals.

some comments

Ed

 

[Lucille]

his window of opportunity to respond to claims here will have closed.

Jay has already been caught in numerous lies and his back is against a wall, right now he simply is spewing insults as responses because he has nothing else left and his credibility is gone.
Jay, if you decide to get booted by deliberately missing your deadline so you can tell everyone that you could have defended yourself had you been here, we are ahead of you on that one, and subsequent readers aren't going to believe it either.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

Craig, can you explain this part or just bs?

Total BS. We made a deal for $950 for 8 animals. In the video he originally posted he said the day I shipped we made a second deal for 8 or 9 more ambilobis (his words 8 or 9 more ambilobis). He said he sent me a money order for $1050 that day and I guess I just trusted him that it was coming. Later in the video he said we made a deal for 8 or 9 tamataves.
Since then he took that video down.
He also stated in that video that I sent him 2 boxes (that's true I did send 2 boxes) and 1 of the boxes was empty. The other box had only 4 animals in it he stated.
Now as you all know he is now claiming to have received all 8. Because he said 5 died and he only has 3 left.
I guarantee you guys that he has none left and he sold all 8.
Jay please post pictures of the 3 you claim to have with a piece of paper with today's date on it.

 

[bcr229]

i did what legal counsel said to do i did what pay pal said to do i did what cc company said to do. Today i get to do what i wanted to do the only break i will give you is not filing charges for libel / slander

This is too rich. You have money to fling at a lawyer and thousands available for a retainer for a defamation case, but you don't have enough to pay off the STILL OPEN JUDGEMENT of $1900 that the hospital has against you?

Also, on July 7 the letter from the veterinarian stated that the chams were "unfit for sale". Why did you advertise them in August using Craig's photos? See post #427:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=587747&page=43

Did the chams have a miraculous recovery?

 

[Fangthane]

This is too rich. You have money to fling at a lawyer and thousands available for a retainer for a defamation case, but you don't have enough to pay off the STILL OPEN JUDGEMENT of $1900 that the hospital has against you?

Apparently, this isn't his first rodeo, threatening laughable defamation suits. Notice how his "attorney" can't even manage to keep his gender straight. Also, I haven't been able to find any record of there ever being a "Jason McKnight LLC." It also seems a little comical that this attorney would go so far as to make claims regarding Ciccone's character and standing in this business. I doubt it'll come as a shock to anyone that this "Anthony Viola" doesn't seem to have any record of ever having been admitted to the NJ State Bar.

I'd swear I saw posts over in the Fakebook thread where he mentioned his uncle being a lawyer, who was supposedly helping him with this situation, but those posts now seem to be gone. If this phantom Uncle Attorney is the one who's been teaching him all about "liable slander," I wouldn't worry too much about him. So, yeah, I think it's a pretty safe bet that this "libel / slander" suit that's perpetually on the horizon is just more of Ciccone's mindless bluster. Shocker...

 

[Fangthane]

Yet another total shocker - that thread has just suddenly disappeared. Can't imagine why he'd want to remove all that wonderful information.

 

[chazzz]

Christopher Stancel seems like a nice guy and he's probably a good Vet. But I'm not on board with his letter and believe some lines were crossed. As Lucille stated the New Jersey Pet Protection Act refers only to dogs and cats he should know this. Jay picked these animals up around 3pm and the text messages show the back and forth for quite some time. Christopher Stancel wrote he examined the animals the day they arrived which was July 7th. Jay never stated he had taken them to the Vet that very same day. I would think he would have been shoving that info down everyones throats if he had. Moments after their arrival Jay sent a text accusing Craig of scamming him because some of the animals have MBD. Craig calls BS and requests photo proof which Jay completely disregards. To be fair he probably did't have enough time for any photos over the past two months because he was to busy filming himself ranting like a sociopath in the basement. Craig offers a full refund and the animals be returned and Jay says no, and demands a $400 compensation.

Back to this bizarre note from the Vet. Chris says that 2 animals passed away a few days after arrival. why wasn't this brought up in the video or any of Jay's ranting's on Facebook or in a text message when they died? Why are these deaths coming to light more than 2 months after Jay received the animals. Also no mention of any deaths in his "wife's" postings either.

Okay here's a quote from Jay's "wife" in the other thread made on 8-20-16

I have no further part in this. I can not answer a question you asked Jay and i will not violate the site rules. When his ban is lifted he can speak for himself. I will say Mr Wyatt your are a snake in the grass and what your doing is uncivil and disrespectful. He will have a vet report Monday or Tuesday regardless i have had to be around him the entire time this ordeal went on i know exactly what you did and how you spoke to him your are and jekyl and Hyde how anyone takes you seriously with what child things you do like calling and recording a conversation. I would like to hear the full conversation you supposedly recorded. You are pure filth

So if the Vet examined them the day they arrived as per the letters, why was there still no Vet report 2 months later. Also those letters are not a Vet reports of an examination. Was there any blood work done, fecal tests, or X-rays? Also there is no mention or even a slight suggestion to aid in the chams recovery. The Vet had the gall to state the animals were unfit for sale and that Mr. Ciccone is entitled to a monetary refund. SMH It's interesting that it's the same thing Jay demanded on day one. Why didn't the Vet state the animals should be returned for a full refund? That would make sense right since they weren't fit for sale then they should be returned for a full refund.

I'm guessing Jay McKnight is his real name since he had to provide proof to lift his ban on here. But why does his Vet refer to him as Jason Ciccone? Ahh, who cares!
And is Chris the Vet Jay claimed is his partner?

What is truly astounding aside from the fact someone could be as dense as Jay, is he didn't pay a dime for any of those animals. Even if 5 died and he has 3 left, he has 3 free Panthers. It feels strange this isn't mentioned more that Jay kept the chams and did a chargeback and Craig got completely scammed by this Tool.


It's infuriating, I can only imagine what you have gone through Craig, I'm so sorry you were scammed by Jay.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

Apparently, this isn't his first rodeo, threatening laughable defamation suits. Notice how his "attorney" can't even manage to keep his gender straight. Also, I haven't been able to find any record of there ever being a "Jason McKnight LLC." It also seems a little comical that this attorney would go so far as to make claims regarding Ciccone's character and standing in this business. I doubt it'll come as a shock to anyone that this "Anthony Viola" doesn't seem to have any record of ever having been admitted to the NJ State Bar.

I'd swear I saw posts over in the Fakebook thread where he mentioned his uncle being a lawyer, who was supposedly helping him with this situation, but those posts now seem to be gone. If this phantom Uncle Attorney is the one who's been teaching him all about "liable slander," I wouldn't worry too much about him. So, yeah, I think it's a pretty safe bet that this "libel / slander" suit that's perpetually on the horizon is just more of Ciccone's mindless bluster. Shocker...

Also notice where it say this law firm represents "Jay McKnight". That's pretty comical that they are representing him using one of his alias names. Guessing at that time no one else new his real name was Jason Ciccone. So he just put the name that everyone knew him by to make it more believable.
And why would the street address be left out. How was Josh going to contact him?

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Count me among those who don't think this whole vet. situation passes the smell test. It just makes me wonder if there may have actually been a nugget of truth to the following screenshot; if the letters are from that very same "partner". He does admit to having some relationship with Jay outside of this situation...

Taking the editorialization to the extent where Craig is specifically mentioned doesn't exactly seem very professional or objective to me. The choice to embrace such conjecture seems odd. Taking some extra steps to do a bro a solid, perhaps?

It's a sad commentary on one's credibility rating, when literally every word coming from his side of the fence needs to be so closely scrutinized and taken so well-salted. As much as he clearly wants to blame this forum for not taking him seriously, his own words and choices are solely responsible for the situation he's in.

Also, since it would seem that Jay has managed to convince the moderation staff that his surname is McKnight, it's weird that he's referred to as Mr. Ciccone in the letters. Makes me wonder just how many different names and IDs he may have.

Jason Ciccone makes up a lot of claims that end up not necessarily being accurate. I have no idea if he is a biologist, but he does not behave as competent ones do (and man, do we sure vary in both emphasis and quality). He claims to have a vet as a partner, but does that vet claim him as a partner? In what capacity? I am not seeing anyone that is not Ciccone himself jumping to his defense in corroborating the claim. I have partners and they would claim me as a genuine partner in return if that became a point of contention with a party we cared about interacting with in a business capacity. I am not sure that whomever Jason Ciccone is claiming he is in a partnership with would view the situation the same way (that there is any partnership at all).

I feel that the wording employed by Chris Stancel ought to have been more distanced and careful for reasons of objectivity, but I have seen before where veterinarians will take client claims regarding animals on faith (lots of "it came to me like that" types of claims after a person drops something face-down on a tile floor from a five-foot height, for example, exist and that tends to be recorded in the history even though the stricter way would be to merely say that patient X presented with mandibular fracture upon examination). It does not excuse anything, but it is a rationale based on what I have directly observed other veterinarians do. Vets are human. Humans anchor easily. I do not consider anchoring ideal and often try to ask myself what if the opposite case is true when I am presented with a claim so as to keep myself mentally trained for broad possibilities. I cannot knowledgeably speak to the law regarding the unfit for sale matter, so I leave that to those who are better equipped to address concerns surrounding that matter.

Jason Ciccone also had the account under his "wife's" (mother's?) name to defend himself here instead of taking care of business regarding his name details (which he has falsified on more than one occasion). Funny how, when the account was gone and his temporary ban expired, there was no protest for reinstatement of his "wife" like most human beings with a spouse would argue for if they felt the spouse was unjustly dealt with....

As Rich has already followed up with, the name discrepancy has reached the end of the line. Ciccone has made further claims regarding his "efforts" (ha) to rectify the situation that I know to be false in accordance with timeline. I have given him a day of generosity (I am removing all opportunity for remotely valid excuses here) within which he can take the step to get his profile compliant with the rules here. I was within remit to crush that instead of this last chance, but since I am taking over for a deeply valued teammate, I want to make sure I handle this with an extra measure of direct experience with the rule violation and its correction (or lack thereof) so I will know for myself that I did everything I reasonably could to provide a fair opportunity. I did not need to do this, but I chose to.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

Christopher Stancel seems like a nice guy and he's probably a good Vet. But I'm not on board with his letter and believe some lines were crossed. As Lucille stated the New Jersey Pet Protection Act refers only to dogs and cats he should know this. Jay picked these animals up around 3pm and the text messages show the back and forth for quite some time. Christopher Stancel wrote he examined the animals the day they arrived which was July 7th. Jay never stated he had taken them to the Vet that very same day. I would think he would have been shoving that info down everyones throats if he had. Moments after their arrival Jay sent a text accusing Craig of scamming him because some of the animals have MBD. Craig calls BS and requests photo proof which Jay completely disregards. To be fair he probably did't have enough time for any photos over the past two months because he was to busy filming himself ranting like a sociopath in the basement. Craig offers a full refund and the animals be returned and Jay says no, and demands a $400 compensation.

Back to this bizarre note from the Vet. Chris says that 2 animals passed away a few days after arrival. why wasn't this brought up in the video or any of Jay's ranting's on Facebook or in a text message when they died? Why are these deaths coming to light more than 2 months after Jay received the animals. Also no mention of any deaths in his "wife's" postings either.

Okay here's a quote from Jay's "wife" in the other thread made on 8-20-16



So if the Vet examined them the day they arrived as per the letters, why was there still no Vet report 2 months later. Also those letters are not a Vet reports of an examination. Was there any blood work done, fecal tests, or X-rays? Also there is no mention or even a slight suggestion to aid in the chams recovery. The Vet had the gall to state the animals were unfit for sale and that Mr. Ciccone is entitled to a monetary refund. SMH It's interesting that it's the same thing Jay demanded on day one. Why didn't the Vet state the animals should be returned for a full refund? That would make sense right since they weren't fit for sale then they should be returned for a full refund.

I'm guessing Jay McKnight is his real name since he had to provide proof to lift his ban on here. But why does his Vet refer to him as Jason Ciccone? Ahh, who cares!
And is Chris the Vet Jay claimed is his partner?

What is truly astounding aside from the fact someone could be as dense as Jay, is he didn't pay a dime for any of those animals. Even if 5 died and he has 3 left, he has 3 free Panthers. It feels strange this isn't mentioned more that Jay kept the chams and did a chargeback and Craig got completely scammed by this Tool.


It's infuriating, I can only imagine what you have gone through Craig, I'm so sorry you were scammed by Jay.

It's getting so much easier to see a holes and lies in his story. You guys are catching more of them than I am at the moment. It's just such a massive cob web of lies and he is tangled up in it there's no hope for escape.

Jay you say you have 3 of my animals left. First off I would like to see proof of this with pics but if you do maybe I'll take other animals as replacements. We will have to come to an agreement. If we can reach an agreement I will call PayPal and tell them we worked it out and to release the rest of the money back to you.
If you do not try to work with me right now before the hammer drops with paypals decision don't come crying to me if I win and you want to work something out then.
I am a business man don't let your feelings get in the way of fixing this. It's still not to late to work with me.
You are not fighting for the animals sake you are fighting for the money and to get $950 worth of free animals.

 

[bcr229]

Apparently, this isn't his first rodeo, threatening laughable defamation suits. Notice how his "attorney" can't even manage to keep his gender straight.

The attorney also used two different misspellings of Joshua Illencik's name.

 

[Fangthane]

I am not sure that whomever Jason Ciccone is claiming he is in a partnership with would view the situation the same way (that there is any partnership at all).

I feel that the wording employed by Chris Stancel ought to have been more distanced and careful for reasons of objectivity, but I have seen before where veterinarians will take client claims regarding animals on faith (lots of "it came to me like that" types of claims after a person drops something face-down on a tile floor from a five-foot height, for example, exist and that tends to be recorded in the history even though the stricter way would be to merely say that patient X presented with mandibular fracture upon examination).

Fair enough. I'm not necessarily married to the idea that they're 'in cahoots'. I do, however, stand by my thoughts that, as a whole, the situation is fishy. Partly, for the content that I'd mentioned in my post that you'd quoted; additionally, for the noteworthy pieces that are missing - specifically:

One of the big elephants in the room regarding the vet visit was that Jay took "sick" animals to the vet but there wasn't a treatment plan documented in the letter. So that implies that Jay declined to treat sick animals. If the animals actually had "MBD" they should have been treated for it. If they were too ill to be treated successfully, then they should have been euthanized and documented with pictures and a necropsy.

I have a big problem with the omission of a treatment plan or euthanasia of sick animals as implies that they were left to suffer and die. That means that Jay would have had to decline humane treatment of the animals.

There's more than just the implied partnership to cast doubt. At best, what's been presented appears extremely incomplete.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Fair enough. I'm not necessarily married to the idea that they're 'in cahoots'. I do, however, stand by my thoughts that, as a whole, the situation is fishy. Partly, for the content that I'd mentioned in my post that you'd quoted; additionally, for the noteworthy pieces that are missing - specifically:

There's more than just the implied partnership to cast doubt. At best, what's been presented appears extremely incomplete.

No contest on my part regarding incomplete appearance, but that could just as easily be a matter of selective sharing by a party wishing to cast himself in a particular light.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

Jay made 3 different Facebook post that I know of yesterday evening. I posted links to the new thread and made a handful of comments just pointing out a couple new lies I just caught him in with him using his own words.
Well looks like that didn't go very well for him so he deleted everything.
One of the best things about this site is once you start a BOI thread there's no going back.
Right now he's wishing he never came here yesterday. Maybe he thought there was a delete option and it could all go away if the sh** started getting to deep. Like he's done now with all 3 videos and all Facebook posts all deleted.

Jay this thread is here to stay.