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Crooks who can't be nailed.

Seamus
resolved or not, this was a juvenile that was taken advantage of, not an adult. Having 6 kids that all have a collection of assorted herps from toads to snakes, this thread kinda pissed me off.

I guess I can say you did what you thought was right [which is fine]but I would have gone a step farther and chastised this guy for taking advantage of a juvenile. Man what an a$$, If it were my kids or some youngster I knew the gloves would be off.
 
The gloves were off John, just not on this forum.

The rules of the BOI make it questionable for me to write a bad guy post with second hand information gleaned from a discussion on another reptile related internet forum, leaving the decision squarely in Phillip's hands. He chose to deal with it in a different way, I think perhaps because he's a bit younger and the other individual involved is local to him and established in the industry to some degree... it worked for him though.

The one who ripped him off... and any resolution which may have been accheived after the fact really doesn't change the nature of the original transaction or the severity of the transgression... is already someone with a very questionable reputation though, involved in shady deals and having had several threads on the BOI, none of which were very flattering.

Point being, while it would be good for others to know who was involved, it's not my place to state it directly. If someone were to wander over to the forums at www.novogate.com/exco/index.php?boardid=1046 and maybe check out a thread under the General Reptile Forums, Picture Forums titled "New Herpss!!!" though, I certainly couldn't stop them from doing so...
 
Thanks for the link, Seamus.

I'm shocked, absolutely SHOCKED, that a person with a reputation such as the seller in question could ever be thought of as having sold sikly animals to the unsuspecting!

**Feel free to now wipe the dripping sarcasm from your monitor**

What an absolute jerk "He" is to have done this! Not terribly surprising, though. Hope he actually reimbursed the kid fully. If not, I'd lay him out on the BOI for sure!

:bluegrab:
 
Thank you so very much for that link Seamus, that sheds ALOT of light on the sad deal this guy got suckered into.
(no offense Phillip)
 
Wow, you mean it's not a well known and documented fact that all candoia take rodent parts as their first meals? Hmmmmm

I'd like to say it puts the "adult" in this situation in a whole new light but, it doesn't.

Wes Pollock
 
Wow, you mean it's not a well known and documented fact that all candoia take rodent parts as their first meals?
Click to expand...

Well you see... the Pacific Islands that are home to this genus are also populated and have been for hundreds of millions of years, by herpers who have large collections... It's a common practice for these herpers to throw out freezer bags full of the pinky parts that broke off before the bag was finished (you know... the feet and tails that accumulate in the bottom of my freezer until there's a layer an inch deep), Candoia have evolved right along with this local and ancient custom to drop neonates which are too small to eat anything besides the broken off freezer burnt ears of pinky mice.

Nature's just full of miracles.
 
You know Seamus, I've always known that you were in actuality a smart guy, one of those who actually knows the facts about things. I feel so priviledged to share this site with someone's who's intelligence of such caliber as yours that I am almost dumbfounded. It would not surprise me, at this point, to find out that what you don't know would barely fill a thimble.

And, on occasion, you're pretty damn funny too.

Wes Pollock
 
I know you guys think it's funny about the mouse parts, but about three years ago, in my store, a guy came in and GAVE ME about 8 baby Candoia.... obviously, they didn't want to eat, so for the first 3 months of their lives, I would take mouse TAILS and literally "screw" them down their throats.... that worked pretty well.... I only lost one of them and the rest finally graduated to eating pinkies and then fuzzies all on their own.... so it CAN be done.... of course, they weren't nearly in as bad a shape as the one's in the picture....

Neil
 
Seamus Haley said:
Well you see... the Pacific Islands that are home to this genus are also populated and have been for hundreds of millions of years, by herpers who have large collections... It's a common practice for these herpers to throw out freezer bags full of the pinky parts that broke off before the bag was finished (you know... the feet and tails that accumulate in the bottom of my freezer until there's a layer an inch deep), Candoia have evolved right along with this local and ancient custom to drop neonates which are too small to eat anything besides the broken off freezer burnt ears of pinky mice.

Nature's just full of miracles.
Click to expand...

OK Seamus, I am telling Bobby that you know the secret.....
After reading your post I threw all pinkie parts and stuff that accumulates at the bottom if the freezer bag and threw it in my backyard[ol lady thinks I am nuts] in hopes of seeing if any of those solomons will migrate to Michigan. On question though....Will the cold bother them??? [just a novice here I don't know nuttin]
 
Tailing a problem feeder is quite a bit different than getting one to eat pinkie parts. Ponder for a moment the difficulty of shoving a pinkie tail or leg down a baby candoia mouth. With an adult mouse tail or even part of one, it slides right down. But I believe that Phillip was told they were eating pinkie parts. Very different from having to be tailed.

Wes Pollock
 
Thanks to all the replys,
Sorry I havent posted much, I honestly forgot about this topic on this site.

As Seamus stated, the Candoias have died, and I have them preserved with dates and times of each death. As well as pictures of each one when I found it. It has been 3 months, and the seller had agreed to refund them with the corn snake I traded. He hasent been able to make it to the last two shows since he has said he cant drive. I then have requsted a refund of $40.00 (Will take the price I was wanting on the Corn snake which was $35.00) to be done eather by pay pal or check. I am waiting for a responce about the issue. I do not want to take this to the BOI, but if the seller out right refuses to do any kind of refund and its case closed I might have to resort to that.
Thanks once more for all the help!
Phil
 
I do not want to take this to the BOI, but if the seller out right refuses to do any kind of refund and its case closed I might have to resort to that.
Click to expand...

Phil,

You have been really patient. It has been more than 2 months and nothing yet :( Although your stand of not wanting to take it to the BOI is comendable, believe me when I say it's already a known fact. All the people that have replied and viewed this thread are regulars in the other forum.

Best of lucks! :(
 
Phil, This crumb that can't refund your 40.00 is the same crumb that didn't refund something like $5.70 to another customer that he took advantage of. For a measly $5.70 he strung out a thread for appx. two or three weeks, and I may be wrong on the timeling but I think that's it, so don't feel bad for taking him to the BOI. You'll neither be the first nor the last to take him to task there. I'd say he's a scumbag but I'm trying to avoid getting additional points for now so let me just say that he STRONGLY represents the type of person you SHOULD STAY AWAY from.

As Dan said, everyone already knows who he is and is not surprised at all. Three months is WAYYYYYYYY too long to wait on a $40.00 dollar refund. Especially with the condition the candoia he traded you were in.

Wes Pollock
 
I think the only good thing which has come of all this is that Phil has shown himself to be, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a good person. He has been patient and tactful to a level that I can honestly say I wouldn't have been in his situation, giving the other party more than ample time and every possible chance to make this right and he has been abused at every turn.

Hell, I get angry just reading about the way he's been treated, thinking about the entire thing makes my blood pressure go up and my teeth clench.

He was taken advantage of by someone who *should* be trustworthy, a person who has been in the industry a decent length of time and is, despite their behavior, knowledgeable. Phil was patient and forgiving.

The only reason that the other party agreed to make it right was a great deal of public pressure and the fact that other people jumped his case. Phil was patient and forgiving.

The promises of resolution were apparantly false, nothing has happened except excuses and games, Phil has been jerked around for far longer than most anyone else would allow themselves to be in this situation. Phil remained patient and forgiving.

Phil took a bit of initiative out of desperation and offered the other involved party an additional means of recourse, another set of options which could be used to satisfy the situation and resolve the issue. Phil again remained patient and forgiving.

If this guy doesn't make things right, after all the chances he's had and all the leeway he's been given, it cements his status as a bad guy, a crook and an all around loser as a human being.

Phil on the other hand has proven that he'd be a great person to enter into any transaction with, that he's more than willing to go several extra miles to keep people happy. He's also extremely bright, knows his animals and has a great moral sense when it comes to his husbandry practices and the way he conducts himself. No matter how he chooses to continue in this industry, either as a hobbiest or a businessman, he's got a great and very bright future ahead of him and can act, even now, as a great example of a good guy... easily one of the best guys I have ever personally come across.

Hopefully things will be made right, it's the principles which have been displayed rather than the specific dollar amounts which are most noteworthy in this situation. If nothing else comes of it Phil, it was a forty dollar cornsnake well spent towards establishing yourself as being a quality individual with a good reputation.
 
Thanks Seamus,
I dident need that, honestly, I am not all that at all, I still got allot of things to refine and work on, the fact I bought these sankes shows im not very experenced or very bright lol. Just next time I will know to listen to the people im buying from, but still look at the animal, I have all ways taken peoples word for it.
Thanks allot,
And Bobby has till the 15th to make it right, I will take it to here if I am not refunded by then.
 
And Bobby has till the 15th to make it right, I will take it to here if I am not refunded by then.
Click to expand...

Have you made him aware of that deadline or is that just your own decision?

Regards.
 
Philip, being taken by a crook doesn't mean you're not smart or don't know your animals, it just means that the crook was convincing in what they were doing. I think most anyone who posts here with any regularity has been taken for a ride before, it doesn't detract from their credibility or experience in the least.

It's really easy to look at someone like you and talk about what a "great young herper" they are... fact of the matter is though, you're just a "great herper" You care for your animals, you're constantly learning everything you can, you're willing to share what you know and you're honest and have integrity.

I'm not going to let you out of this one without complimenting the way you've handled yourself throughout this entire mess, so just accept it and stop arguing.
 
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