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Current Status of the Reptile Industry
- Thread starter jntreptiles
- Start date
R. Eventide
So say we all!
Why can't we talk about the subject of the thread without resorting to insults?
KelliH
doesn't drink the koolaid
Speaking as someone that has made a living at this for more than 10 years, I actually agree with more of the points that Winged Wolf makes. Please keep in mind that I am a leopard gecko breeder and don't work with ball pythons any longer.
Prices on reptile morphs fall pretty quickly. Holding onto "X" amount of "morph A" for an entire season because they aren't selling at last years or even last months price really isn't economically a very smart thing to do. You end up putting lots more food, time and space into the animal(s) and probably raising it up to an adult. Then you're talking months and months away and by that time 9 times out of 10 the morph just won't be worth as much anymore anyway.
God bless America and the free market economy!
Prices on reptile morphs fall pretty quickly. Holding onto "X" amount of "morph A" for an entire season because they aren't selling at last years or even last months price really isn't economically a very smart thing to do. You end up putting lots more food, time and space into the animal(s) and probably raising it up to an adult. Then you're talking months and months away and by that time 9 times out of 10 the morph just won't be worth as much anymore anyway.
God bless America and the free market economy!
Bill & Amy
Harley Rider
Speaking as someone that has made a living at this for more than 10 years, I actually agree with more of the points that Winged Wolf makes. Please keep in mind that I am a leopard gecko breeder and don't work with ball pythons any longer.
Prices on reptile morphs fall pretty quickly. Holding onto "X" amount of "morph A" for an entire season because they aren't selling at last years or even last months price really isn't economically a very smart thing to do. You end up putting lots more food, time and space into the animal(s) and probably raising it up to an adult. Then you're talking months and months away and by that time 9 times out of 10 the morph just won't be worth as much anymore anyway.
God bless America and the free market economy!
With ball pythons, it does work that way. People pay more for adult animals. The fact is, the people trying to sell babies and dumping them will never know. Food is cheap, space is cheap. Unless your renting a high dollar commercial space I don't really buy the "it costs too much to hang on to it". Look at BHB, he hangs onto animals and feeds them to sell as subadults and adults. He is constantly selling yearlings etc at shows for much more cash than anyone is getting for babies. It just doesn't apply to ball pythons. People want the bigger animals to breed them sooner. So if you want to set yourself apart from other "dumpers" keep them and raise them up. Like I keep saying. If space is an issue, then maybe you shouldn't be producing it.
Tiger Lilly
Lovin' Life
I gotta agree with Bill. Even though I am looking forward to my first successful breeding season, my plans have always included holding on to anything that doesn't sell right off. Shoot, even normal females sell for a decent price as they get closer to being breedable size.
Granted, I'm not doing this as a business--I'm strictly a hobbyist--but I have still planned for the future as far as having enough room to hold on to any 'excess' bp babies.
I'm not in it for the money...it's fun and I love my snakes. If I can sell some to cover expenses, that's great. Early on in the game I had thoughts of making it a business, but I'm leaning more toward being a successful hobbyist at this point. It will give me something to do with my time when I retire...in another 12 years....
Gary O
Registered member
I will put a comment in here. Some may like it others may hate it. But after work I will make a post.
I will say though.....Some yell out its all about the hobby its all about the hobby......But when it comes down to it......It always falls back on the mighty dollar why people get upset!
I will say though.....Some yell out its all about the hobby its all about the hobby......But when it comes down to it......It always falls back on the mighty dollar why people get upset!
Bill & Amy
Harley Rider
Exactly, people that want to hurry up and dump their animals are worried about the almighty dollar and how fast they can get it.
Bill & Amy
Harley Rider
WingedWolf
New member
A) I've never been able to understand why some people are incapable of engaging in a debate without getting personal. Stick to the subject, not the person. Particularly when you're dirt ignorant about the subject you're trying to prod them with. If the goal is to make the other person angry, you obviously have no faith in your argument itself to make the point for you. This isn't a sports match--the guy who knocks the other guy down doesn't win. The idea that actually has more merit wins. Sometimes, neither idea will have more merit, and it's just interesting to see different perspectives--an idea apparently foreign to the sportsters.
B) Bill--There's a big difference between "you should always have enough money in reserve to get you through lean times" and "you should never have to rely on selling an animal to make a living". VAST difference, there. Now that I realize you didn't mean what you said the first time, I agree with you. You need to be able to support your animals if disaster should happen, either that or be prepared to scale your business back, which is always a last resort. There comes a point, however, where you will need to make at least some sales each year in order to support your collection, or you'll be forced to sell off adults to do it. The only alternative is to have some other job to support them. You can save the money up, of course, and that's a wise thing to do, but someone who is JUST STARTING OUT will not have those savings yet. You're talking from the perspective of someone who's been breeding for many years, and has luxuries that newer breeders do not have.
This is matter of how to manage ANY business, not just a reptile breeding business. It's going to take at least 3 years to make a ball python business truly stable, and probably more like 5 years. I've crunched the numbers. Unless you go in with a really big fat wad of cash, it takes a bit of time to get to the point where you can hold back bunches of animals to sell them off when they're adults.
I do not agree that you can make loads of cash doing that. I've watched the market prices, and unless you're holding back exceptional animals, you're not going to be getting a LOT more than you would have if you sold them younger--when you subtract the cost of food and care, of course. And that's BEFORE you figure in labor. Have you really done the numbers? Of course, the morph matters. Some morphs hold their value extremely well (Piebald, Albino), and some hold their value like a sieve holds water (mojave, pinstripe).
Holding back a bunch of piebalds to raise up will give you more money in the long run. But offset that with the potential to re-invest what you made from selling them as babies back into more adult females for yourself...suddenly it's not so clear that it's a wise choice.
As for space--space is something you purchase after your business is making a LOT more money. Yet another thing that looks simple from the perspective of someone who either started the business with a big load of cash already in hand, or has been doing it long enough to have forgotten the difficulties faced when you are starting up.
I personally don't get the luxury of space for another year or two. At the moment I have 2 rat racks, and no room for more--most of my animals eat FT, and I seek out animals that do. I have to carefully choose what I bring in, and what I keep, so that I can maximize my future profit in the space I have. I can't keep animals that will produce in 3 years--I need them to produce this year, so I can get out of here and into something bigger, sooner.
This doesn't mean there is anything wrong with my business, or with my business plan. Things are going quite well, as I said. Once I'm in a position where I can hold back lots of animals, I WILL. For numerous reasons, not just to resell some when they are larger--I want plenty of females from my own base stock so I can start creating my own lines. That takes time.
Don't be so elitist--your way of doing things isn't the only way, and it most certainly isn't the only right way.
B) Bill--There's a big difference between "you should always have enough money in reserve to get you through lean times" and "you should never have to rely on selling an animal to make a living". VAST difference, there. Now that I realize you didn't mean what you said the first time, I agree with you. You need to be able to support your animals if disaster should happen, either that or be prepared to scale your business back, which is always a last resort. There comes a point, however, where you will need to make at least some sales each year in order to support your collection, or you'll be forced to sell off adults to do it. The only alternative is to have some other job to support them. You can save the money up, of course, and that's a wise thing to do, but someone who is JUST STARTING OUT will not have those savings yet. You're talking from the perspective of someone who's been breeding for many years, and has luxuries that newer breeders do not have.
This is matter of how to manage ANY business, not just a reptile breeding business. It's going to take at least 3 years to make a ball python business truly stable, and probably more like 5 years. I've crunched the numbers. Unless you go in with a really big fat wad of cash, it takes a bit of time to get to the point where you can hold back bunches of animals to sell them off when they're adults.
I do not agree that you can make loads of cash doing that. I've watched the market prices, and unless you're holding back exceptional animals, you're not going to be getting a LOT more than you would have if you sold them younger--when you subtract the cost of food and care, of course. And that's BEFORE you figure in labor. Have you really done the numbers? Of course, the morph matters. Some morphs hold their value extremely well (Piebald, Albino), and some hold their value like a sieve holds water (mojave, pinstripe).
Holding back a bunch of piebalds to raise up will give you more money in the long run. But offset that with the potential to re-invest what you made from selling them as babies back into more adult females for yourself...suddenly it's not so clear that it's a wise choice.
As for space--space is something you purchase after your business is making a LOT more money. Yet another thing that looks simple from the perspective of someone who either started the business with a big load of cash already in hand, or has been doing it long enough to have forgotten the difficulties faced when you are starting up.
I personally don't get the luxury of space for another year or two. At the moment I have 2 rat racks, and no room for more--most of my animals eat FT, and I seek out animals that do. I have to carefully choose what I bring in, and what I keep, so that I can maximize my future profit in the space I have. I can't keep animals that will produce in 3 years--I need them to produce this year, so I can get out of here and into something bigger, sooner.
This doesn't mean there is anything wrong with my business, or with my business plan. Things are going quite well, as I said. Once I'm in a position where I can hold back lots of animals, I WILL. For numerous reasons, not just to resell some when they are larger--I want plenty of females from my own base stock so I can start creating my own lines. That takes time.
Don't be so elitist--your way of doing things isn't the only way, and it most certainly isn't the only right way.
Bill & Amy
Harley Rider
If your just starting out and working from home etc. You have hardly any overhead, so you shouldn't need tons of money sitting there to get by. If your just starting and are doing this from home then I consider a hobby breeder. Yes, you can get a business license and call it a business, but really you are just a hobby breeder that sells as a business. Which in reality is what most breeders are. I have my EIN number and proper paperwork, but still consider myself a hobby breeder. Now that doesn't mean that every home based business is a hobby breeder. There are several breeders that I can think of fall more into the business aspect. Don't want to bring names into this thread, if you wish to discuss them further you can pm me. So many people buy a rack, a few animals, put them in a bedroom and call themselves a "business" with a "facility" to make themselves more important.
I still stand by my opinion that if you can't afford to keep the babies or don't have room to keep them then you shouldn't produce them. No matter how many times you restate or twist it, that won't change, if you are a "business" or not. Anyway, I've said my peace on the subject. Take it or leave it.
WingedWolf
New member
I think the difference between a hobby breeder and a business is long-term plans, and the way you manage it. There's a difference between running a small-scale breeding operation just for fun, or for a little side money, and coming up with a long-term business plan, and just happening to be in the startup stage. One of those differences involves expanding every single year (something hobby breeders can't do, because they have no intention of getting larger facilities when they run out of room), and buying and breeding animals for their investment qualities rather than 'oo pretty' qualities. I don't think it has anything to do with the current size of an operation. I started out with 4 snakes the year before last, and now I have over 40. I think that's a fair expansion rate. By this time next year, our collection may have more than doubled, and it will be time for house-hunting.
You haven't really said WHY you think someone should have to be able to keep all of the babies they produce in order to produce them. It doesn't make sense to do so from a business perspective, and even for a hobby breeder, it's unrealistic--most folks expect their hobby businesses to largely support themselves too. I realize you think you've explained yourself, but this one final point is still unclear.
You haven't really said WHY you think someone should have to be able to keep all of the babies they produce in order to produce them. It doesn't make sense to do so from a business perspective, and even for a hobby breeder, it's unrealistic--most folks expect their hobby businesses to largely support themselves too. I realize you think you've explained yourself, but this one final point is still unclear.
Bill & Amy
Harley Rider
YES I have, several times. You just chose to ignore the reasons I've stated. It makes perfect business sense. How much did '08 mojave girls go for last year? How much are the 1000+ gram mojave girls being sold for this year? You obviously aren't up to speed on the market as you think you are. Because if you think it doesn't make good business sense to raise up animals and sell them later, then you don't get it. So I guess not selling the baby at $750 and keeping it for a year and selling it at $1500-$2000 is a bad business decision?
Gary O
Registered member
Ok lets see.
The market is what it is. I always wonder why a person that says they are not in it for the money but they are so worried about the market complain so much. Not that the person is a bad person just they are confused IMO. Why worry about the market if you are doing it just becuase you love to produce animals. Who cares what they sell for.
Now on the other hand being in it to make money is NOT WRONG no matter what anyone says; and if you are then awesome. That also does not mean that you do not love the hobby. But you should keep up with the market then. As you live by it!!!!!
But to flip flop and tell people they are wrong for breeding single codoms to normals or they are selling to low is stupid IMO.
Who sets the market? Who says what it should be. Who says what way things should be done.
To complain about it just makes it worse. Breed what you love and be proud of it.
Do I love the crashing prices. HELL NO. But at the same time me complaining about it all day everyday just makes me look stupid. I will not give them attention becuase you know what. They will sell it for the price they want and people will buy it too!!! Just look at many many people that rip people off. They still sell now!!!! So what is complaining about it all the time going to do.
I will tell you what I am going to do and what I have done. Mind my own business. Sell for the price I feel the animals are worth and keep doing what I do. I am not sure about all of you but I do not have time to complain about every little thing I see everyone do all day. If joe blow wants to seel albino balls for 10 bucks. Whatever, becuase no matter what I say, he is still going to do it.
The market is what it is. And when you tell a person they can not sell something for what they want it is borderline price fixing. Not saying it is but it is borderline..................
I still will price my animals like I have always done. Worry about myself and let the others worry about whatever they worry about...........
The market is what it is. I always wonder why a person that says they are not in it for the money but they are so worried about the market complain so much. Not that the person is a bad person just they are confused IMO. Why worry about the market if you are doing it just becuase you love to produce animals. Who cares what they sell for.
Now on the other hand being in it to make money is NOT WRONG no matter what anyone says; and if you are then awesome. That also does not mean that you do not love the hobby. But you should keep up with the market then. As you live by it!!!!!
But to flip flop and tell people they are wrong for breeding single codoms to normals or they are selling to low is stupid IMO.
Who sets the market? Who says what it should be. Who says what way things should be done.
To complain about it just makes it worse. Breed what you love and be proud of it.
Do I love the crashing prices. HELL NO. But at the same time me complaining about it all day everyday just makes me look stupid. I will not give them attention becuase you know what. They will sell it for the price they want and people will buy it too!!! Just look at many many people that rip people off. They still sell now!!!! So what is complaining about it all the time going to do.
I will tell you what I am going to do and what I have done. Mind my own business. Sell for the price I feel the animals are worth and keep doing what I do. I am not sure about all of you but I do not have time to complain about every little thing I see everyone do all day. If joe blow wants to seel albino balls for 10 bucks. Whatever, becuase no matter what I say, he is still going to do it.
The market is what it is. And when you tell a person they can not sell something for what they want it is borderline price fixing. Not saying it is but it is borderline..................
I still will price my animals like I have always done. Worry about myself and let the others worry about whatever they worry about...........
DISCERN
Active member
Gary, those were some wise words and observations. I highly agree!
KelliH
doesn't drink the koolaid
Best thing that's been posted in this thread!
WingedWolf
New member
Mojave adult girls have been seen for 1200, not 2000. I saw one just a couple weeks ago at that price. Yes, it's true--by keeping them, you can get more money for them in a year--probably. However, as I pointed out, by not keeping them, I can use the money to buy more animals now. If I invest that money in more adult females (which at this stage is all I've been buying), then figure that in--because suddenly a mere $500 extra doesn't look nearly as good as the $900 I would get from the offspring produced by just ONE normal female bred to a male I already have. Of course, $700 would buy me at least 3 of those. Does NOT make sense to hang onto the hatchlings to sell them later.
Down the road, sure...but not at this stage. I can get a LOT more return from selling them now, and reinvesting the money wisely. Even if two of the girls fail to lay, I still wound up making a lot more money than I would have by waiting a year to sell.
An important thing that should never be forgotten, not just when you're selling animals but in any business--the producer does not determine the value. Ever. Something is forever and always worth ONLY as much as someone else is willing to pay for it. The market is determined not by what breeders think their animals are worth, but by what BUYERS think the animals are worth. That is just the way things are, and always have been.
In MY opinion, the correct price is one at which things are selling, slowly. If they sell quickly, the price is probably too low. If they don't sell at all, the price IS too high. As supply increases or demand drops, prices will fall--if they don't, people just won't be selling any longer. That's a lose/lose situation.
You're always going to have people willing to undercut in order to make quick sales, and they have every right to do so. The fact that it makes them unpopular with other breeders is pretty unlikely to dissuade them. Are they being unwise? Probably. Are they doing something 'wrong'? Of course not. There is nothing WRONG with undercutting the market. That's why it's a free market. They could be doing a lot better--but that's their choice to make. If you want to do better than them, you'll just have to produce better animals that people are willing to pay more for. It shouldn't be difficult, as most of the people seriously undercutting the market aren't doing much in the way of selective breeding.
Bill, I understand your view on holding back animals better now, I really do--but as I've pointed out, it's more complicated than the mere final price, so I just don't agree with it. It's a good strategy in the long run, don't get me wrong--one I'll probably employ myself with select morphs, down the road--but it's not a strategy for someone who's just getting established. It's much wiser to invest the money back into the business now than it is to wait to get just a few more bucks in several years.
Down the road, sure...but not at this stage. I can get a LOT more return from selling them now, and reinvesting the money wisely. Even if two of the girls fail to lay, I still wound up making a lot more money than I would have by waiting a year to sell.
An important thing that should never be forgotten, not just when you're selling animals but in any business--the producer does not determine the value. Ever. Something is forever and always worth ONLY as much as someone else is willing to pay for it. The market is determined not by what breeders think their animals are worth, but by what BUYERS think the animals are worth. That is just the way things are, and always have been.
In MY opinion, the correct price is one at which things are selling, slowly. If they sell quickly, the price is probably too low. If they don't sell at all, the price IS too high. As supply increases or demand drops, prices will fall--if they don't, people just won't be selling any longer. That's a lose/lose situation.
You're always going to have people willing to undercut in order to make quick sales, and they have every right to do so. The fact that it makes them unpopular with other breeders is pretty unlikely to dissuade them. Are they being unwise? Probably. Are they doing something 'wrong'? Of course not. There is nothing WRONG with undercutting the market. That's why it's a free market. They could be doing a lot better--but that's their choice to make. If you want to do better than them, you'll just have to produce better animals that people are willing to pay more for. It shouldn't be difficult, as most of the people seriously undercutting the market aren't doing much in the way of selective breeding.
Bill, I understand your view on holding back animals better now, I really do--but as I've pointed out, it's more complicated than the mere final price, so I just don't agree with it. It's a good strategy in the long run, don't get me wrong--one I'll probably employ myself with select morphs, down the road--but it's not a strategy for someone who's just getting established. It's much wiser to invest the money back into the business now than it is to wait to get just a few more bucks in several years.
Bill & Amy
Harley Rider
First off, I know off several mojaves that sold for $2000 plus this year.
Second, it's not several years. It's 1 year or less to get a female to 1000 grams.
Anyway, it's obvious we will agree to disagree. I'm done, have fun.
tinmantribe5
THE TINMAN
Well folks as a old hippie once told me grow your own its cheaper(Rats) that is haha. I have to agree with Bill & Amy small or large you have to be prepared to suffer thru the good times of fistfulls of cash for the couple snake Investments you talked your signifigant other into buying remember.Well I am saying dont buy all the snakes if you cant feed them ,I find more than money is my time cleaning rat cages or undigested rat mounds Ewwwwww.I really dont like to get rid of them any way so I damm sure wont give them away.I got into snakes in late 2005 and prices of the snakes was a Very Big Deal when I decided to get a new snake,I really think If you are a Honest man or women with Integrety you will get a solid price out of your product if you are a Creep you might Jack a couple people with some Shitty snake but Karma is a Bitch my friends and it all comes back 3 fold .We all must take pride in our Animals and they in return will bless us with some awsome creations.
Peace to Everyone
The Tinman
Peace to Everyone
The Tinman
Reptile Basics
New member
Some thoughts
I generally try to stay out of the way on these types of topics but I have actually been in something long enough to have a little bit of wisdom. I am getting old........
A not so wise person who happened to be very talented at this hobby told me some 20 years ago that if this is a hobby to you then your goal/expectation should be to "feed for free". His point being that most other hobbies consume money but this one, if you are diligent and careful, will actually pay for itself. Go ask an RC airplane guy if that happens to him someday. You might get hit so use caution.
Over the first couple of years I spent in the snake keeping and breeding hobby I found some startling wisdom in this. Seemed like if I did a good job feeding, cleaning and breeding my animals they would reproduce most of the time and once I sold off the offspring and did the math they fed themselves plus some extra. Sometimes I sold them fast and cheap, sometimes I worked at it and got a little more. Same applies today. Right now I wholesale them out fast and cheap. Time constraints dictate it. Next year I might work harder at it- who knows? The "extra" was of course immediately reinvested in the hobby (what else would a 17 year old do with money??) and it still is today. Nothing has changed.
Like many industries, this one saw a bit of a bubble. Many newcomers did not know what to make of it and just a couple of years ago it seemed no end was in sight. Fast and loose money/credit/hype over inflated prices but we were willing to pay them. Well, now we have found the end. Not to the hobby or even the "feed for free" but to the free ride. Reality is back for the most part and now the hobby is going through some growing pains because of it. Pretty colors and dollar signs helped over accelerate the "normal" growth rate of this hobby and every peak has a valley behind it. Something to keep in mind- a snake is essentially worthless. You can not (in most cases?) eat it, cloth yourself with it or use it for shelter. You know, basic human needs? It has one purpose on this earth and that is pest reduction. That food chain thing. WE have created its monetary value. What is a snake really worth to you?
Who here is really serious and who is just in it for a pet? Nothing wrong with having a pet or two or ten but do you really expect them to pay you and should you? Serious hobbyists will persevere the huge influx of animals on the market, they will feed for free plus some extra if they use some common sense and they will have a blast doing it. Some historical perspective- How many of you remember the $1000 Albino Cal King? A couple of years later, after I got into it of course!, it was literally hard to give them away to a pet store. Couple of years after that there were none to be found because no one made any so all of a sudden they were a $20 wholesale animal again and in demand. They have been $15-$20 ever since. Albino burms, leucistic texas rats, albino corns- all the same story. Anyone notice mouse prices have not gone up significantly in 20+ years? I was buying .10 pinkies 20 years ago and I am buying .10 pinkies today. How does that work?
The moral---Breed it and they will come. You will not make your millions. You will make a few bucks, pay for your addiction and maybe even get a weekend trip to the beach out of the deal every year. Some years you will hit lucky and do better, some years worse. You will get relaxation and enjoyment out of it. You need to decide where you want to be in the food chain and roll with it. It was the same 20 years ago, just fewer of us and there was no internet. Some of you will make careers out of it and the majority will call this a hobby.
As for shows- It is my opinion that there are entirely too many shows in a lot of areas. I like a show, I like attending a show and I even like vending at a show but gee whiz guys. The gentleman from PA is absolutely right. Show promoters are often their own worst enemies. How is it one of the most established shows on the planet (Hamburg, PA) has promoters that want to start up/take over yet another show 45 minutes from Hamburg??? One that failed under another promoter??? 6 or 8 Hamburg shows a year aint enough on top of the other dozen+ shows in a 2 hour radius??? Evolution will slowly eat them up. Like any other business, it will support only so much and no more. Once some weed out it will slowly build up again to the breaking point and we will start over..............
I generally try to stay out of the way on these types of topics but I have actually been in something long enough to have a little bit of wisdom. I am getting old
........A not so wise person who happened to be very talented at this hobby told me some 20 years ago that if this is a hobby to you then your goal/expectation should be to "feed for free". His point being that most other hobbies consume money but this one, if you are diligent and careful, will actually pay for itself. Go ask an RC airplane guy if that happens to him someday. You might get hit so use caution.
Over the first couple of years I spent in the snake keeping and breeding hobby I found some startling wisdom in this. Seemed like if I did a good job feeding, cleaning and breeding my animals they would reproduce most of the time and once I sold off the offspring and did the math they fed themselves plus some extra. Sometimes I sold them fast and cheap, sometimes I worked at it and got a little more. Same applies today. Right now I wholesale them out fast and cheap. Time constraints dictate it. Next year I might work harder at it- who knows? The "extra" was of course immediately reinvested in the hobby (what else would a 17 year old do with money??) and it still is today. Nothing has changed.
Like many industries, this one saw a bit of a bubble. Many newcomers did not know what to make of it and just a couple of years ago it seemed no end was in sight. Fast and loose money/credit/hype over inflated prices but we were willing to pay them. Well, now we have found the end. Not to the hobby or even the "feed for free" but to the free ride. Reality is back for the most part and now the hobby is going through some growing pains because of it. Pretty colors and dollar signs helped over accelerate the "normal" growth rate of this hobby and every peak has a valley behind it. Something to keep in mind- a snake is essentially worthless. You can not (in most cases?) eat it, cloth yourself with it or use it for shelter. You know, basic human needs? It has one purpose on this earth and that is pest reduction. That food chain thing. WE have created its monetary value. What is a snake really worth to you?
Who here is really serious and who is just in it for a pet? Nothing wrong with having a pet or two or ten but do you really expect them to pay you and should you? Serious hobbyists will persevere the huge influx of animals on the market, they will feed for free plus some extra if they use some common sense and they will have a blast doing it. Some historical perspective- How many of you remember the $1000 Albino Cal King? A couple of years later, after I got into it of course!, it was literally hard to give them away to a pet store. Couple of years after that there were none to be found because no one made any so all of a sudden they were a $20 wholesale animal again and in demand. They have been $15-$20 ever since. Albino burms, leucistic texas rats, albino corns- all the same story. Anyone notice mouse prices have not gone up significantly in 20+ years? I was buying .10 pinkies 20 years ago and I am buying .10 pinkies today. How does that work?
The moral---Breed it and they will come. You will not make your millions. You will make a few bucks, pay for your addiction and maybe even get a weekend trip to the beach out of the deal every year. Some years you will hit lucky and do better, some years worse. You will get relaxation and enjoyment out of it. You need to decide where you want to be in the food chain and roll with it. It was the same 20 years ago, just fewer of us and there was no internet. Some of you will make careers out of it and the majority will call this a hobby.
As for shows- It is my opinion that there are entirely too many shows in a lot of areas. I like a show, I like attending a show and I even like vending at a show but gee whiz guys. The gentleman from PA is absolutely right. Show promoters are often their own worst enemies. How is it one of the most established shows on the planet (Hamburg, PA) has promoters that want to start up/take over yet another show 45 minutes from Hamburg??? One that failed under another promoter??? 6 or 8 Hamburg shows a year aint enough on top of the other dozen+ shows in a 2 hour radius??? Evolution will slowly eat them up. Like any other business, it will support only so much and no more. Once some weed out it will slowly build up again to the breaking point and we will start over..............
Gary O
Registered member
Rish awesome post brother!!!! Golli and I were talking about how many shows there are now the other day.