Bad Guy Curt @ EpicChameleons.com, BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!

[REPTILES4RMLU]

Ok, so I got a couple of Pure C.B Faly girls from Scott Kilsby aka Texas Panther Man. He's a great guy by the way and great chams too! But back to the story... I only needed 1 female but I got a good deal on 2. So I figured I'd try and work a trade with a reputable breeder and make some friends along the way. I then contacted a handful of breeders that had some chams I liked. I got different responses from each of them but 1 response in particular really bothered me! Mind you, I don't know Curt. I've never spoken to him in my life. In other words, this was my very first message ever! To curt.

Note: My message to him may not be exactly word for word cause I don't know how to view sent messages on the cham forums. But it was pretty much titled....

Trade?
and the message read....
I've got a C.B 5 month old female faly.

And here's Curt's response to a first time customer, Quote on Quote his exact words from my cham forums inbox ...

"Not sure who you are, but after talking with other breeders that your trying to sell your so called farly to.(its a small world breeders talk to each other)I will pass." -Curt

Ok, now my thing is... it's cool if you're not interested in a trade. Just say... No Thank you, I'm not interested. But why the insult Curt?

What makes this faly a "so called farly"?

This "so called farly" can be traced back to her well known grand sires from well known breeders! I can think of 3 people you're insulting besides myself!

Oh and I'm very flattered that so many of you breeders are talking about me and my "so called farly" You and your breeder friends are more than welcome to quit whispering amongst yourselves and express your feelings on this thread!

Funny thing is... my wife really wanted one of your ambilobes, so trade or no trade, I would've just purchased it for her!

-Luis Triana

 

[REPTILES4RMLU]

Also, my little 13 year old cousin (also named Luis) is in to chams. He buys chams with his allowance every couple of months. The kid knows his stuff, he knows all about locales and lineage. He's a very smart kid and has recently learned how to barter. I figure it's just a matter of time before he's on the forums wheelin n dealin! I'll try to tell him to stay away from you, but if he happens to contact you for a trade please don't insult him.

-Luis Triana

 

[~Just Curious~]

I don't know anything about him personally, so I can't say whether he's a Good Guy or not, but honestly I don't think this is worthy of a Bad Guy thread at all.

In my eyes at least, this is reflecting more poorly on yourself than him. =\

 

[REPTILES4RMLU]

I don't know anything about him personally, so I can't say whether he's a Good Guy or not, but honestly I don't think this is worthy of a Bad Guy thread at all.

In my eyes at least, this is reflecting more poorly on yourself than him. =\

Well, I respect your opinion, but if I don't defend myself, then I'm just that guy with the so called faly. This post really does not have to do with the fact that he did not want to trade. I can respect that. This post was about showing his poor business ethic. I had never spoken to Curt about anything or done any business with him, yet he immediately insulted me by saying my faly was fake.

I think it reflects more poorly on him because it shows that he does not have the skills required to properly interact with customers in a professional manner. How would you feel if you contacted a reptile company on a trade or purchase for the first time ever and their only response is that they can't help you because they don't know you and your animal's fake?

Where's the proof to these lies and rumors? I will defend the lineage on this animal to the end and I dare any breeder to come on here and prove otherwise.

I learned back in school not to believe everything you hear, and that gossip and rumors spread like wild fire. I think Curt should grow up, and regardless, if he heard a rumor I still feel his reply should have been "no thank you, not interested" and I would have offered cash. He shouldn't have insulted me if he didn't know me and didn't even ask for lineage info. on the animal. He just heard what he heard and let it influence him.

No one should conduct business this way!

 

[RobNJ]

but if I don't defend myself, then I'm just that guy with the so called faly.

Big difference between defending yourself and being vindictive...now you just might look like that guy with the "so called faly" that got his feelings hurt.

There had to have been a better way to go about this.

 

[~Just Curious~]

I got that the first time, I just didn't agree with it. Everyone has different opinions. I suppose we could debate all day about what merits a Bad Guy thread, but it wouldn't change the fact that it's here. =\

Did you at least ask him what the other breeders were saying about you and especially why they thought that? I can't imagine someone going through life randomly assuming that everyone's animals are fake. Even if it was misguided, I'm sure they had to have some reason to make them hunch.
To defend yourself, you need to know exactly what you're defending against. Things probably could have been squared away here with some simple conversation first...

I can't say since I'm not a part of them and you didn't go into the details, but just throwing this out there - if you were sending the same message to multiple breeders "Trade? I have a female faly." "Trade? I have a female faly." "Trade? I have a female faly." at the same time, then it's possible they might have assumed multiple dealings meant you didn't actually have that animal at all or weren't intending to give it to them. Some spammers will go around doing that until they find a person to accept and ship first.

Like I said, I really don't know. Nobody but them can say. Since what's done is done, did you contact Curt and let him know about this thread so he can explain?

 

[REPTILES4RMLU]

Big difference between defending yourself and being vindictive...now you just might look like that guy with the "so called faly" that got his feelings hurt.

There had to have been a better way to go about this.

Well I honestly believe that some of these guys just can't accept that they're not the only ones with pure nosy falys. Not everyone's got them and the few people that are lucky enough to have pure falys to work with are very proud to have them. Nosy falys are a sensitive subject now a days and to be accused of having fakes is a big deal in the chameleon world. I'm currently working with pure falys and am proud to do so. Curt's response insinuates to me that he's propagating this rumor. And in this business, reputation is everything. I expressed my feelings to Curt, but got no reply. Call it vindictive if you'd like. I'm just stating facts on here, I'm sharing my first time experience with this company, a company that gets involved in gossip.

Sorry Rob but I can't think of a better way to go about this. Unfortunately, Curt was the only one that was man enough to accuse me directly and admit that there's rumors going around about me. I have an idea as to who it is that may have started these rumors, but in the end, everyone should draw their own informed conclusion, not just blindly believe what they hear. I can't demand explanations and force people to talk to me about this. Maybe now they'll come out of hiding and express their feelings on here.

Sorry you guys don't agree with me, but it's my reputation on the line, I'm the one being insulted. I'm put in the position where I know people are trying to tarnish my reputation but I don't know exactly who or why, but Curt made it clear that he does.

You know, I work hard for my money and my chameleons weren't free. I do my homework before I make any purchases. To have him accuse me of dealing with fakes is insulting to me and to all the parties that were involved in this chameleons genetics... Scott Kilsby, Heroic Chameleons and Kaleidoscope Chameleons who spent lots of time and money to make it possible.

Oh, and Rob, I did get my feelings hurt, that's the point of this thread! But that faly is as pure as they come!

At the end of the day, the point is do not insult your customers, it's bad for business.

 

[~Just Curious~]

I think maybe a better way of going about it might have been to calmly (It helps, you get what you give) ask him to clarify what he meant by 'so-called' and assure him that yours is pure and offer proof/details. If lineage and purity are so prized and such a sensitive subject, then I would assume you'd want to offer all that info to begin with instead of just "I have a female faly"

Now I'm not saying you did anything wrong with your original offer. It was harmless and I honestly do agree with you that he should have been more polite. I just feel that you're making a bigger deal out of it than it really is.
You spoke about how reputation is everything and how he's tarnishing yours, but notice how when you do a Google search of "EpicChameleons" now, this Bad Guy thread is right up top on the first page.
That's why I personally feel that starting one over hurt feelings like this is petty. I don't think he should be completely judged on just a simple sentence like that.

 

[bobtard]

You read much too far into that comment he made, made all sorts of assumptions about what he meant. You two disagree about genetics, he disagreed, you didn't like how he said it, now he's a bad guy?

You aren't his customer, either. You approached him about a trade, he declined. You were not a customer.

 

[REPTILES4RMLU]

You read much too far into that comment he made, made all sorts of assumptions about what he meant. You two disagree about genetics, he disagreed, you didn't like how he said it, now he's a bad guy?

You aren't his customer, either. You approached him about a trade, he declined. You were not a customer.

I never got the chance to be a customer.

 

[imcurt]

THIS IS BS NO MONEY OR CHAMS WERE EXCHANGED

WOW!!! chech your pms on the forums.I replyed to your pm prior to reading this. First of all that was a private message nobody saw untill you made youself to be an a_ _ Here is a fact: a well known breeder called me an asked if a luis contacted me about trading a faily ,,i said yes ,the honest breeder said luis doesnt have proof of its back ground and is attempting to double deal the same cham.... So my self not knowing luis or ever bought or sold a chameleom to luis ... i replyed to you that i dont know you and breederd talk,,,,,and they do!!! and i will pass on your so called faily.maybee i was being a bit snotty but this was all done in a private message to you... No money or chameleons were exchanged!! sorry if i hurt your feeling. take care and i will see you on the forums! A bit about me I shipped over 80 panther chameleon last yearand all were 100% live arival and never an unhappy customer. When vince from screameleons is willing to put his name on my product i must be doing somthing correct oh and vince is in no way involved with this dispite. curt www.epicChameleons.com

 

[REPTILES4RMLU]

WOW!!! chech your pms on the forums.I replyed to your pm prior to reading this. First of all that was a private message nobody saw untill you made youself to be an a_ _ Here is a fact: a well known breeder called me an asked if a luis contacted me about trading a faily ,,i said yes ,the honest breeder said luis doesnt have proof of its back ground and is attempting to double deal the same cham.... So my self not knowing luis or ever bought or sold a chameleom to luis ... i replyed to you that i dont know you and breederd talk,,,,,and they do!!! and i will pass on your so called faily.maybee i was being a bit snotty but this was all done in a private message to you... No money or chameleons were exchanged!! sorry if i hurt your feeling. take care and i will see you on the forums! A bit about me I shipped over 80 panther chameleon last yearand all were 100% live arival and never an unhappy customer. When vince from screameleons is willing to put his name on my product i must be doing somthing correct oh and vince is in no way involved with this dispite. curt www.epicChameleons.com

Well Curt, you just sent that pm today. Ultimately this was all I wanted... an explanation / apology for your insulting comment. I guess if you can admit that you were being a bit snotty, then I'll admit I might of gone a bit overboard with this issue. Just try to put yourself in my shoes, I'm sure you can relate, after all you are a cham breeder! You should know more then anyone all the dedication, time and money that goes into breeding these chams.

With that being said, The honest breeder you mentioned above is not very honest at all! Cause I have all the proof that anyone could ever need on this girls lineage! Also I'm not really sure how you can double deal a single cham. I'll admit I offered her to several people, but in my experience only maybe 1 out of 5 people you offer to trade will actually be interested in trading. So I offered away and waited for feedback. Ended up with 2 people that had some interest, So I figured I'd pick a cham from either one or the other and finalize the trade. That's when all the rumors started.

Sorry it turned to this, but I guess we both learned something.

 

[Jackp308]

Sorry you guys don't agree with me, but it's my reputation on the line, I'm the one being insulted. I'm put in the position where I know people are trying to tarnish my reputation but I don't know exactly who or why, but Curt made it clear that he does.

You know, I work hard for my money and my chameleons weren't free. I do my homework before I make any purchases. To have him accuse me of dealing with fakes is insulting to me and to all the parties that were involved in this chameleons genetics... Scott Kilsby, Heroic Chameleons and Kaleidoscope Chameleons who spent lots of time and money to make it possible.

Oh, and Rob, I did get my feelings hurt, that's the point of this thread! But that faly is as pure as they come!

What is your profile name on chameleon forums? I would also be a bit weary of someone trading any female let alone a top dollar lone female faly. I mean half the people on Chameleon Forums have chameleons that aren't even what they say they and its not intentional. Not saying that is the case here but you can't just trust anyone especially dealing with female panther chameleons.

So who is this female from. Chuck, Scott, or Kleidoscope? Your message was pretty vague in the regards "I have 5 month CB female Faly for trade."

Id be pretty skeptical myself. Maybe I would have said no thank you instead but thats his choice. I also think faly was just misspelled as it has been throughout this whole thread in multiple ways. So don't think its FARYLY.

If you want to people to take you seriously, maybe place an ad for trade with pictures and proper lineage information and references to where you got them.Its all right there and for people to decide if they don't its there loss.

 

[REPTILES4RMLU]

What is your profile name on chameleon forums? I would also be a bit weary of someone trading any female let alone a top dollar lone female faly. I mean half the people on Chameleon Forums have chameleons that aren't even what they say they and its not intentional. Not saying that is the case here but you can't just trust anyone especially dealing with female panther chameleons.

So who is this female from. Chuck, Scott, or Kleidoscope? Your message was pretty vague in the regards "I have 5 month CB female Faly for trade."

Id be pretty skeptical myself. Maybe I would have said no thank you instead but thats his choice. I also think faly was just misspelled as it has been throughout this whole thread in multiple ways. So don't think its FARYLY.

If you want to people to take you seriously, maybe place an ad for trade with pictures and proper lineage information and references to where you got them.Its all right there and for people to decide if they don't its there loss.

My name's the same on all the forums "Reptiles4rmlu" and I agree with what you're saying. My vague message was just to let them know what I had, if they showed any interest then I'd break it down in more detail. I got this particular female from Scott. He produced it himself, using a male named "Sherlock" that he bought from Chuck's "Quazar" line, and a female named "Ayva" from Kaleidoscope's Blizzard line. Anyone who wishes can look into this.

And I understand where Curt is coming from as well. I've put myself in his shoes, and if one of my breeder buddies told me to watch out for some guy named (Curt) who's trying to "double deal" with a Chameleon, and "he has no background info". Upon receiving (Curt's) offer, I too would have told him I'm not interested. But I don't think I would have gone as far as to say something like... I heard about you and your fake chameleon! And that's where I believe he was wrong.

I'll admit that this was a bit much on my part, but Curt was just the straw that broke the camels back.

 

[imcurt]

I glad you find this resolved! I you truley would like to exsperence my good customer service log on to my site and complete a buy it now button or send me an e-mail asking about chameleon that are for sale!!! Some of us have a career out side of our chameleons! my guess is you do not!!

 

[Jackp308]

I glad you find this resolved! I you truley would like to exsperence my good customer service log on to my site and complete a buy it now button or send me an e-mail asking about chameleon that are for sale!!! Some of us have a career out side of our chameleons! my guess is you do not!!

What is that suppose to mean?

 

[imcurt]

It mean I have a full time job where i manage a butcher shop that I have to keep profitable, and lot of chams at home to take care of and do not check the forums every single day/hour.

 

[REPTILES4RMLU]

I glad you find this resolved! I you truley would like to exsperence my good customer service log on to my site and complete a buy it now button or send me an e-mail asking about chameleon that are for sale!!! Some of us have a career out side of our chameleons! my guess is you do not!!

I've read this message over and over, and I'm not quite sure I understand what you're trying to say.

I thought our issue was resolved, yes.

I was actually trying to find out if there's a way to have this thread removed.

Anyways, I got a regular 9-5 and I also work with reptiles.
I hope that clears up your assumption!

 

[bobtard]

I've read this message over and over, and I'm not quite sure I understand what you're trying to say.

I thought our issue was resolved, yes.

I was actually trying to find out if there's a way to have this thread removed.

Anyways, I got a regular 9-5 and I also work with reptiles.
I hope that clears up your assumption!

It will never be removed. Good job, you labeled him as a Bad Guy forever, because you got your feelings hurt over a single message.

 

[REPTILES4RMLU]

It will never be removed. Good job, you labeled him as a Bad Guy forever, because you got your feelings hurt over a single message.

Well that's very unfortunate, but I only stated facts about my experience with a reptile company. I wasn't trying to "label" him a bad guy for ever. It's not like he sold me any sick animals, or ripped me off, or anything of the sort. In fact I think he has very nice animals, which is why I contacted him to begin with. I just think he should work on his people skills a little, that's all.

I actually spoke to him on the phone prior to this, and we've settled our differences.