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D.O.A. Inquiry

valleysnakeguy

valleysnakeguy

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I'm new to Fauna.

I'm a small time breeder/hobbyist.

I just sold a snake and shipped him out immediately upon receipt of buyer's payment via PayPal. I used an overnight carrier, with the proper styrofoam-lined box, punched airholes and since it was being shipped in the same state, it arrived within about 14 hours to its destination.

I just received an email from the customer who claims it to have arrived DOA. I have requested photos and the shipment of such animal back to me to confirm the claim, I was curious to find out if anyone out there has shipped an animal at such close proximity and have it arrive D.O.A.?

Also, the customer is new to Fauna as well with only ONE post in their status record. From what I gather, I feel a bit suspicious about the claim.

Thanks.
 
What kind of snake was it? What were the temps when you packaged the snake? The forecasted temps for that night and next morning? Did you drop off the package, or have it picked up?

On a side note, you could be asking for trouble shipping the dead snake back - if it starts to stink or oozes and gets the box wet, it may get stopped. If it isn't frozen first & kept cold through the trip, there's a pretty good chance of one (or both) of those things happening. Are you paying for the return shipping of the DOA? Is it going on your shipping account? Do you have a waiver to ship snakes with the overnight carrier you used, or did you use a service authorized to ship snakes? (I'll explain my reason for asking this last question later)
 
AZ Mt. King

The package was picked up.

I will be paying for the return shipping. The carrier is authorized to ship live snakes. No waiver signed that I am aware of.
 
You avoided the questions about the temperatures....
so I looked them up 96 - yesterday on your end. Given that the company you used ships by truck, and you didn't mention a cold pack, overheating is certainly a possibility. What time of day was it picked up?

I take it you made your "no problems" post before you got the DOA notification?

Since this seems to be a relatively new venture for that company, a leaky or stinky dead snake might end things right there. Any idea how they do things? What kind of vehicle was the snake picked up in? Where did it go after it picked up your snake? Making more pickups? Was it the same vehicle that did the delivery? If not, what was done with the package between pickup and transfer to the delivery vehicle? Was it stored in a temp controlled area, or outside?
 
hhmoore said:
You avoided the questions about the temperatures....
so I looked them up 96 - yesterday on your end. Given that the company you used ships by truck, and you didn't mention a cold pack, overheating is certainly a possibility.

I take it you made your "no problems" post before you got the DOA notification?
Click to expand...

I didn't intentionally not answer your temps question, I simply overlooked them.

They shipped out around 9pm, the latest they can be shipped out when the temps were lower, 78* - 80* on my end.

And yes, I got DOA notification AFTER replying with no problems on the other thread, unfortunately.
 
Oh btw, it was picked up by a courier in what seemed to be a private vehicle, but I never had an issue until this. I don't know what happens after they pick up.
 
Ok, it's been 24 hours since the animal's departure from my location.

I have been provided with photos that cannot determine the validity of a DOA, so a video was also e-mailed and I was willing to completely make this right and refund everything including shipping. I have requested the reptile be frozen, and sent back to me immediately but the customer decided to send him back by USPS 2 day service - from what I gather, this is not legal?

Also, upon verification of other venues I also have noticed that the package was never signed for, and according to the courier there was no one available to sign and therefore left at the front door.

I believe it is common sense to have someone be present for the signing of such delivery, is it fair to say I am no longer liable for this loss?
 
Did the buyer know you weren't using one of the "standard" carriers? Was he/she aware of the delivery time? (What was the delivery time?) Did you specifically request a signature? (if not, there was no reason to expect one). If a signature was required, and not received, the package should not have been left - that means it was carrier error, and you are still responsible, IMO. (You hired the shipper, they screwed up - it isn't the customer's fault, even though they weren't there for delivery. IF the package hadn't been left, and the snake died because it was on the truck, I think you would have a better argument against the customer).
 
I'm interested in who the carrier is since I don't see mention of a specific name on this thread.
I would only allow the snake to be shipped pack next day with plenty of cold packs to keep it from thawing too much and stinking to the point of drawing attention.
 
Golden State Overnight, I've used them plenty of times without issues until now.

But personally, it is standard procedure to sign off upon arrival of a live animal package, most breeders and reptile companies would agree that if package is not signed off on and it is dropped off at the recipient's door it is no longer the sender's liability for a Live Arrival Guarantee - it's on my terms & conditions.
 
hhmoore said:
Did the buyer know you weren't using one of the "standard" carriers? Was he/she aware of the delivery time? (What was the delivery time?) Did you specifically request a signature? (if not, there was no reason to expect one). If a signature was required, and not received, the package should not have been left - that means it was carrier error, and you are still responsible, IMO. (You hired the shipper, they screwed up - it isn't the customer's fault, even though they weren't there for delivery. IF the package hadn't been left, and the snake died because it was on the truck, I think you would have a better argument against the customer).
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, and yes to all your questions.
 
Correction: No signature required, but someone must be present to receive package was agreed upon by my terms & conditions for live arrival.
 
valleysnakeguy said:
Golden State Overnight, I've used them plenty of times without issues until now.

But personally, it is standard procedure to sign off upon arrival of a live animal package, most breeders and reptile companies would agree that if package is not signed off on and it is dropped off at the recipient's door it is no longer the sender's liability for a Live Arrival Guarantee - it's on my terms & conditions.
Click to expand...

It's standard procedure to sign for the delivery of a live animal because a lot of people shipping live animals require that. If the shipper doesn't request it, the driver doesn't care how badly you want to sign something - they hand you your box (if you happen to be standing there) and leave. If no signature is required, as a shipper, you're setting yourself up for problems. That signature is what makes the driver wait until a person takes the package, vs just setting it down and continuing with their route.

(again) What time was the snake delivered? Was it "on time"?
What time were you notified of the DOA?
 
I never, EVER send animals with signature required via UPS any longer. They stick a note on the door, and then they leave, with the animal on the truck, to complete the rounds. This is very likely to kill the animal, and is far more dangerous than their leaving it on the porch.

If your terms stated that the buyer HAD to be home and sign for the package, and the package was left on their doorstep, and they did NOT contact you within 30 minutes of the drop time...then I would personally refuse a refund.

If the box WAS picked up in a timely fashion, did the shipper leave this box in a sealed vehicle in the sun? If so, I would not be using that shipper again, they are clearly negligent, but it would then be your responsibility to compensate the buyer.
 
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