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Bad Guy Dan Foss/Reptiles Plus Cut and Run

chaosaffect

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It's been repeatedly advised that I escalate this to a Bad Guy thread, so here it goes.

Around May 5th I posted an ad looking for a trade for four of my ball pythons local to the Atlanta area. I was contacted by a person on FB going under the name "Reptiles Plus" (https://www.facebook.com/reptiles.plus.10), and after being convinced by others that shipping was easy I started bargaining for a trade with him. At first the subject of the trade was an Albino Male, but we eventually agreed to my 1.0 Pastel, 1.0 het Albino, 0.1 Spider, and 0.1 Normal for his 0.1 Fire het Albino.

Since I was new to the FB reptile community, and I was under the impression that he had been around a bit I agreed to send first with the understanding that he would send his side as soon as I gave him shipping confirmation. To clarify, I had done some research, asked around, but there was no negative feedback.

So, I sent my side on Tuesday the 7th. He claimed it was too late in the day to send his out, but promised to do it first thing Wednesday the 8th.

Wednesday past with some confusion about the sex of one of the ones I sent, $50 being sent to him as partial payment to buy it back, clarification of the sex, and me asking for the $50 returned. He did not ship, but claimed that FedEx was scheduled to pick it up first thing Thursday morning.

Thursday he claimed he overslept but would take it in later that afternoon. That evening he said that he had been to multiple locations but no one would ship, and that he would have to go through SYR, so it wouldn't go out until Monday the 13th. He did refund my $50, though.

There was no communication all through the weekend. I 'poked' him on FB on Sunday to make sure he remembered me, messaged him at 10AM Monday, then several more times after that. I ended up becoming so concerned that I called the number he gave me but he's not answering.

Dan, if you read this, I just want the snake I was promised or the value that you set for it, $400.

All communication is attached, along with the post where he priced the Fire het Albino at $400.
 

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The last bit of the FB conversation, and the post where he priced the Fire het Albino:
 

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Thanks for posting this.

Have you received any contact from him since he refunded your $50?


I still think you should just ask for your animals to be shipped back to you. :(

I have very little confidence in the genetics of this fire het albino. Does he have paperwork or photos of the parents?
 
Them prices scream Scam. $250 for 1250g vanilla female, but $400 for a bumblebee female hatchling. Think about it

Chances are you will never see anything
 
Considering I have his home address, phone number, etc I'd say chances are pretty good I will see something when I get the cops involved.

No, there has been no contact since last Thursday.
 
Thanks for posting this.

Have you received any contact from him since he refunded your $50?


I still think you should just ask for your animals to be shipped back to you. :(

I have very little confidence in the genetics of this fire het albino. Does he have paperwork or photos of the parents?

I don't know how confident I am at this point either.
 
having an address dont mean anything. Could of been someone eleses address that he waited at for the FedEx driver and such.

The prices of few of them snakes should of red flagged you.
 
having an address dont mean anything. Could of been someone eleses address that he waited at for the FedEx driver and such.

The prices of few of them snakes should of red flagged you.

Yeah I agree. I didn't see that price list at first.. Definitely seems off...

Man that really sucks!! I don't do any deals over facebook unless they have a reputation elsewhere, or I know them personally.

:(
 
having an address dont mean anything. Could of been someone eleses address that he waited at for the FedEx driver and such.

The prices of few of them snakes should of red flagged you.

I KNOW that it's his home address. I've already spoken with a couple of people that have done business with him locally. I'm not sure what your intention is here, or why you appear to be trying to make me feel worse about this than I already am, but please stop.
 
Stop what, Pointing out the obvious. You want me to sugar coat and say everything will be okay and you will get them back or money. Guy did classic scamming tactics to get you to ship first and send money.

The guy ripped you off plain and simple, you wont see anything unless court gets involved or you go to his house. He does local business, which is worthless when it comes to online!
 
Stop what, Pointing out the obvious. You want me to sugar coat and say everything will be okay and you will get them back or money. Guy did classic scamming tactics to get you to ship first and send money.

The guy ripped you off plain and simple, you wont see anything unless court gets involved or you go to his house. He does local business, which is worthless when it comes to online!

Yeah, you're not contributing anything useful to this discussion, you're just kicking me when I'm down. If you've nothing else of any actual value to add just head on down the road. I don't need yet another thing to be irritated by right now.

I've got copies of the correspondence. I will be contacting the police and filing a report for fraud and theft.
 
Does anyone think that having people go to this guy's house and trying to forcefully recover my property without police involvement is a good idea? Because it sounds like a good way to get shot to me.

The courts will be involved shortly, as I have previously stated. I don't need misery trolls telling me that I got screwed, it's my fault, blah, blah, blah. I know I was naive, but that does justify anything.
 
Does anyone think that having people go to this guy's house and trying to forcefully recover my property without police involvement is a good idea? Because it sounds like a good way to get shot to me.

The courts will be involved shortly, as I have previously stated. I don't need misery trolls telling me that I got screwed, it's my fault, blah, blah, blah. I know I was naive, but that doesn't justify anything.

Corrected.
 
Sorry Ben but you're still being naive. Read some threads here and you will see how much help the cops will be. What authorities will you be going to for help? Your local police or his local police? Do the local police have jurisdiction on online fraud or will you have to go to the state police. Was it an interstate deal? If so will you have to go to a federal agency?

A lot of the same questions apply to to the court scenario.

I got railed on a $1300 deal last year so I know the frustration of being kicked pillar to post because "it's not our jurisdiction".

Your best bet is to make it know everywhere and hit him where it hurts.... his pocket book.
 
As Kevin stated, Its going to be requiring a State BAR attorney that has jurisdiction in his state. Call his local authorities as they can try to recover, and id never suggest going alone to his house if that was an option.

Often times, attorneys can represent you in Claims court without you being present, as ive seen it before.
 
Update.

Today I received a reply to the email I sent to his mother's PayPal email address.

Hi Ben,
Daniel is not ripping you off. Sometimes life happens even doing business. He is in no way trying to be fraudulent or deceitful. I am a professional school teacher with an impeccable reputation, and I am guaranteeing that you will receive the snake you bought. Our Fed Ex had a problem with him sending you the snake when he got there. I am hopefully going to be able to help Dan take care of this today. If not it will happen tomorrow, but you will DEFINITELY get the snake. I'm sorry about all the confusion. Please feel free to contact me again if you would like to. Thank you.
Nancy Thiel
 
And another update. This morning I received a phone call from Dan claiming that he had lost his phone and had no internet access outside of it. He gave me a long "I'm very sorry, I'm not the type of guy to screw someone over" spiel and then said that on top of the original Fire het Albino female he was sending me another that was a clutchmate of the first, also a Fire het Albino female.

After posting a pic on another forum that he had provided me a lot of doubt was expressed about the snake being a Fire. I then asked Dan where he got it and was told that he purchased it from Deb's Exotics in September of last year. I contacted Deb through her web site and was informed that she has never had any Fires.

At this point I have demanded a refund of the $400 that he originally valued the Fire het Albino at. I'm not set up to quarantine all four snakes that I originally sent him or else I'd demand them back along with the cost of shipping.
 
Email conversation with Deb:

No I have a ton of emails all he ever did was play head games. I inteed to email and tell him to stop using my name as I have not sold to him and have the emails to prove it. Deb

From: "Ben Allen" <>
To: debsexotics @ comcast.net
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 8:14:14 PM
Subject: Re: Yahoo! WebHosting Email

Do you know if he's ever been a customer?
On 5/17/2013 8:11 PM, Deb&apos;s%20Exotics wrote:

I looked up his name in my email and he has emailed me before.

From: "Ben Allen" <>
To: debsexotics @ comcast.net
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 8:09:14 PM
Subject: Re: Yahoo! WebHosting Email

He's operating under the business name 'Reptiles Plus' on Facebook. There's a whole thing going on, but the upshot is he's running a scam, and using your name to do it.
On 5/17/2013 8:07 PM, Deb&apos;s%20Exotics wrote:

The name does not ring a bell but if I saw his face I would know. I dont get peoples name when I sell at the Expo. But I never owned a Fire that I know. Deb

From: "Ben Allen" <>
To: debsexotics @ comcast.net
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:57:47 PM
Subject: Re: Yahoo! WebHosting Email

Have you sold anything to this guy? Just so you know, he's using your name to try to validate his claim that the snakes he's selling are legit morphs.

On 5/17/2013 7:32 PM, Deb&apos;s%20Exotics wrote:

No not me I've never has any fires.

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 6:41:29 PM
Subject: Yahoo! WebHosting Email


name = Ben Allen
email =
phone =
comments = Hi!

I'm trying to confirm whether Dan Foss purchased at least two Fire het Albino females from you last September. He claims that he couldn't get paperwork from you and I'm trying to verify the heritage.

Thank you!
REMOTE_HOST: 66.87.101.118
 
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