Dan Poe & Dan Lubinsky - Worst of the Unethical Worst

[Chris@TSE]

In order for Alex to agree to a sale the buyer would have had to basicaly convince him his intentions with the mack specimen were genuine. Alex has denied sale to those who seemed interested merely to resell, mass produce, or use the line in any way would harm the projects potential. Buying the animal, breeding it, and reselling it in less than four days certainly falls under the criteria for a denied sale. Prior to Dans purchase he has admitted to having a deal worked out with Dan Poe.


This means one thing, he lied to Alex and told him what he wanted to hear in order to obtain the specimen.

This cannot be denied. Its simple fact.

 

[Hues1]

In order for Alex to agree to a sale the buyer would have had to basicaly convince him his intentions with the mack specimen were genuine. Alex has denied sale to those who seemed interested merely to resell, mass produce, or use the line in any way would harm the projects potential. Buying the animal, breeding it, and reselling it in less than four days certainly falls under the criteria for a denied sale. Prior to Dans purchase he has admitted to having a deal worked out with Dan Poe.


This means one thing, he lied to Alex and told him what he wanted to hear in order to obtain the specimen.

This cannot be denied. Its simple fact.

thank you, thank you, thank you .

 

[Chris@TSE]

I would also like to state that he can deny the allegations all he likes. Given the PROVEN timeline I do believe he is "full of it..."

He knew exactly what he was doing, he knew ahead of time that he was purchasing a specimen for Dan P because he was denied. Why else would he even consider it unless he was aware of the situation. He also was to gain from the transaction by breeding his females to the specimen and reciving offspring from dan in trade for his "service"

It's all pretty cut and dry, the time line does not lie, nor does it leave room for excuse.

The chance that Dan L was unaware and was simply naive is slim to none. You stand more chance being struck by lightening.

Either way, even if you gave him every benifit of every doubt, he has already been proven unethical. And his husbandry skills leave ALOT to be desired. And I still feel quite sorry that the mack had to endure those risky conditions. Two cross country trips in risky winter shipping conditions, no quarantines, whatever... Im done. This still angers and disgusts me..........

Who the hell could possibly do that to an animal and then try to justify it? *sigh*

 

[SPJ]

Oh man. And I thought the BP market was tough. Figures. While I'm trying to put together a leopard gecko breeding colony, this happens.

I've been in a similiar boat as Alex. I sold an animal for a GREATLY reduced price to a "well known" individual a few years back ONLY because he explained he needed it for a breeding project and was short money due to personal issues, etc. I couldn't afford to continue the project and figured this would be good for the market. I fell for it and figured his reputation was solid so he was telling me the truth. The animal was on KS a week later at FULL MARKET PRICE. When I emailed him about it and said I wanted to buy it back since it was supposed to have gone into a breeding project and not be resold, I never got a response.
I can see where Alex would be pissed over this. I am still unhappy about my deal and this is several years later.

Crap like this makes me wonder if I really want to stay in this biz.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

In order for Alex to agree to a sale the buyer would have had to basicaly convince him his intentions with the mack specimen were genuine. Alex has denied sale to those who seemed interested merely to resell, mass produce, or use the line in any way would harm the projects potential. Buying the animal, breeding it, and reselling it in less than four days certainly falls under the criteria for a denied sale. Prior to Dans purchase he has admitted to having a deal worked out with Dan Poe.


This means one thing, he lied to Alex and told him what he wanted to hear in order to obtain the specimen.

This cannot be denied. Its simple fact.

Chris we are all entitled to take our own slant on any situation but that is not the way I see it in regards to Lubinsky. I did a little checking on the various forums and this guy's rep is as solid as they come. Who's to say that the story of his wife being pissed at the purchase of a $1,250 gecko is not true. Did he show less than perfect judgement? Probably. Should he have offerred the animal back to Alex once his circumstances changed? I would have. Does he deserve the crucifiction that is being implemented here? Unless he knowingly circumvented Alex knowing he had refused Poe then I just don't see it

 

[SPJ]

Who's to say that the story of his wife being pissed at the purchase of a $1,250 gecko is not true.

John has a very valid point. I know my wife would make my life a living hell if she did not know about a purchase and have a discussion about it before that kind of money is spent.
It is possible he had to sell it quick to make amends at home.
It happens.

 

[Chris@TSE]

I'm not putting him on a cross. I am saying he in unethical. I am also saying if he is capable of these actions, he is not to be trusted. I am also saying that his husbandry skills leave alot to be desired. I am also saying that his concern for the welfare and heatlh of LIVE animals is frightening.


All of which has been justified by the FACTS here and cannot be denied.

Is that crucification? No.

You want crucification? Give me a cross, some nails, and Dan Poe. I'll show you crucification. Dan Poe is a different story all together, be certain not to take comments directed towards him in the same context as those directed towards lubinsky. I can see how it would be confusing.

Lubinsky has greatly disappointed me. I respected this person and he has let me down. His actions speak for themselves. The proven actions are more than enough, and the unproven accusations do not help either considering how cooincidental they are.

I am not saying he is never to be trusted again, but I am saying he needs to redeem himself in my eyes and the eyes of his peers in order to be trusted again. None of which is crucification and is justified by the facts that have come out in both threads, some of which in his own words.

 

[Chris@TSE]

John has a very valid point. I know my wife would make my life a living hell if she did not know about a purchase and have a discussion about it before that kind of money is spent.
It is possible he had to sell it quick to make amends at home.
It happens.

You know what, you're right. That is a very valid point.

But guess what? Alex had already offered Dan a FULL REFUND, no strings attached. He denied.

Next?

 

[Hues1]

John has a very valid point. I know my wife would make my life a living hell if she did not know about a purchase and have a discussion about it before that kind of money is spent.
It is possible he had to sell it quick to make amends at home.
It happens.

card charged on 12/29/2004

when did his wife find out ???

I shipped on 1/5/2005

more than a wekk to back out if the wife was pissed.

received on 1/6/2005

offer of 100% complete refund on 1/07/2005

so...why not take me up on my offer of refund ?

 

[Hues1]

From: Sales @ Alex Hue Reptiles
To: Dan and Roxanne
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: MKSNW2M


Hey Dan,
Not a problem...I can make arrangements to UPS pick him up and ship him back and issue you a 100% refund.

Alex

I ask again....why didnt he take me up on the offer of a 100% refund ?

 

[SPJ]

That makes no sence. If he was in trouble with his wife over the purchase he would have taken the refund. At least that is what I would have done (unless he had other motives for not taking the refund you offered).

 

[jenn]

That makes no sence. If he was in trouble with his wife over the purchase he would have taken the refund. (unless he had other motives for not taking the refund you offered).

That is the point exactly! Not only did he not take up the offer, but he broke an agreement. WTF, why risk your rep by doing so? There is only one reason..can you say MONEY boys and girls?

 

[Chris@TSE]

(unless he had other motives for not taking the refund you offered).

We have a WINNER!


I do believe he had stated previous it was because he was afraid he would upset Alex based on his correspondence, but as you can see by the emil Alex sent Lubinsky he had no reason to think this way.

And even IF that was the case, he would have known based on the correspondence with Alex and the steps he took to be certain this line ended up in capable hands with good intention that selling to another party would have definately been frowned upon.

And guess what? Both parties went out of thier way to sheid the fact that this transaction took place until a few days ago when they could no longer keep it under wraps. This is why Dan P refused to post pictures of the adult. He knew it would be identified by Alex as the specimen he sold Lubinsky.


Like I said, the facts are all here. They cannot be denied. All of this has already been covered but I'll be happy to keep pointing them out to anyone seeking an explanation.

Next?

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Unfortunately....

....the only one who can fill in the blanks is Lubinsky. I genuinely hope he decides to. It would be a shame to see someone that has always been highly regarded get totally shredded long term by deciding to remain silent

 

[reptilebreeder]

Like I said, the facts are all here. They cannot be denied. All of this has already been covered but I'll be happy to keep pointing them out to anyone seeking an explanation.

Next?

I didn't catch your points Chris. j/k

The thing that cracks me up is, apparently Dan L. contacted Alex over a 5g? or something weight discrepancy, like he's concerned with the health of the animal, yet doesn't think whipping it out of the box after shipping in winter, immediately placing it with 3 females for a couple days, placing it back in a box 4 days later shipping it again, mid winter, just to have Dan P. whip it out of the box, and immediately proceed to do the same thing, is detrimental to the health of the animal? not to even mention Quaranteen procedures.
Yet, Dan L more so, than Dan P is "supposedly" in it because they love the animals, and it's a hobby, not because of the money.
To top it off Dan P. then attempts to infer it was sick in Alex's possession and that is why it lost weight. Hello..............

 

[Chris@TSE]

Well he responded a few times in the previous post, but all he did was fill the blanks we needed to prove the points we've made thus far. I think he may have noticed and took a stance of silence to protect further "damage"

If he does take the time to respond, hopefully it's the WHOLE truth.

I have also recieved numerous emails which verify many of these claims and facts, I would like permission from the authors of said emails to post them here. If you get a chance, drop me an email. You know who you are.....

 

[Hues1]

I also have received many e-mails and PM's pertaining to poes bragging about "pulling the wool" over my eyes and being in cahoots with lubinsky. I also have e-mails and PM's from people who have stated they were approached by poe for various "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine favors" at helping him pull the wool over my eyes and undermining/undercutting other breeders involved with the snow project.

I would also like to ask for your permission to post those e-mails. If not, I understand and still hold all of you in the highest regard.

Thank you.

 

[Chris@TSE]

I'd also like to say one more thing to Lubinsky. I sure hope your arangement or relationship with this Poe character is not prohibiting you from being honest about this situation. I would certainly hate to see you "go down with him" in an attempt to salvage any sort of arrangement you two may have made.

You cannot deny that the facts regarding the transaction are much more than cooincidence. In fact, you can confront anyone with that timeline and I can guarantee they would come to the same conclusion. Of course a benifit of doubt is in order, but when you add the other issuues that have been presented here the benift of doubt decreases exponentially.

There have been reasonable issues brought to light that do warrant great concern, regarding husbandry and concern for LIVE animals. These are cut and dry and speak for themselves...... Of course I am sure you will accept responsibility for these.

I am finding it next to impossible to believe that you did not purchase the mack for Dan Poe. I know you've stated in previous posts that you had issues with your wife regarding the purchase. You have also stated that the upcoming purchase of a car motiviated the sale. Then you stated you had a previous "breeding loan" arrangement with Poe. Which is it? Can you please elaborate truthfully?

I would also like to hear your definition of breeding loan, regarding this situation.

 

[riverjop]

Aren't you guys sick of hashing and re-hashing this over and over?
I'm sitting here reading this ..........and I don't know why! I mean, I think we all know what has gone down, and who did what! Give it up! Your point was made many posts ago! Isn't it time to fed your geckos or took your wife out to dinner or something?

 

[jenn]

Im sorry(add sarcazim here) i just get a little pissed off when some dumb ass has total disregard for the welfare of their animals. Not to mention the fact that they totally screwed Alex over. So let me think do i feel bad for bashing these two.....NO!