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Bad Guy Dav Kaufman - Beware

For the record I have given Randy a call to work this out. I left him a voicemail. When something like this happens emotions run very high and things are said on both sides that we don't mean out of anger, ego, whatever. I have taken my time with this to calm dowm so that the situation was not exacerbated. I have always maintained that I was willing to work this out with him if he would just simply give me a phone call and he did not and I'm not sure how I was supposed to make this right if he wouldn't even talk to me about it. We will see what happens when he returns my call.
 
I think with calls there is lots of possibilities of forgetfulness and misunderstandings. Post your offer here, Dav.
 
When it comes to important stuff I would much rather have things in writing. I'm not sure if that's what randy is thinking but that's what my thoughts would be. I would rather have the deal worked out in text or email so I could go back and reread what was said. I agree with Lucille, posting your proposal here or emailing randy would be the best way to start the negotiations.
 
davkaufman said:
For the record I have given Randy a call to work this out. I left him a voicemail. When something like this happens emotions run very high and things are said on both sides that we don't mean out of anger, ego, whatever. I have taken my time with this to calm dowm so that the situation was not exacerbated. I have always maintained that I was willing to work this out with him if he would just simply give me a phone call and he did not and I'm not sure how I was supposed to make this right if he wouldn't even talk to me about it. We will see what happens when he returns my call.
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Sounds to me you want to talk him into taking much less than he feels he deserves.

OP, should just call him and post here what he was offered for future customers to see how they will be dealt with when something doesn't prove out.
 
Imo If it wasnt what was paid for then a full refund is in order at minimum. 2 years is a lot of lost proffit on leopard combo babies. Give Randy a full refund and move on...
 
I would never agree to anything on a phone call. I'd want it in writing since Dav does seem untrustworthy. He could come back and say that's not we agreed to, and there'd be no proof of who said what.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
bobbafett said:
I would never agree to anything on a phone call. I'd want it in writing since Dav does seem untrustworthy. He could come back and say that's not we agreed to, and there'd be no proof of who said what.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I totally agree.
And since Randy brought this issue here and Dav has been twerking his reputation at us, I think the offer and acceptance should be done here.
 
bobbafett said:
I would never agree to anything on a phone call. I'd want it in writing since Dav does seem untrustworthy. He could come back and say that's not we agreed to, and there'd be no proof of who said what.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I agree, that's why I tried texting him instead of calling him over a week ago. I have been out and just got in, but he did call and leave me the message that he wants to work it out like gentlemen. I will text him tomorrow as I know everyone here would like to know what his original thought was that would benefit me.
 
Good to see that Dav attempted contact.
I agree that whatever is worked out should be in writing.
Now that things are back to "square one" (as of the start of this thread), with Dav expecting a call and getting a text instead (that he did not respond to), hopefully Dav will respond, to the text, this time.
Hope all works out.
 
I've been following since the original post; I'm glad to see that Dav has finally contacted Randy to bring this failed (yes, you failed, Dav) transaction to some sort of closure.

Dav, if you place ads for animals and guarantee health and genetics, then YOU are the one responsible. You did not disclose that you were a "broker" selling for a phantom breeder. You did not disclose you could not guarantee genetics. You freaking guaranteed genetics in the ad you placed.

Just refund Randy's money and then take up the issue with your phantom breeder.
 
I texted him last night and have not heard from him, but it is a Sunday. Just told him

"Sorry been out and just got in. Had a few people text me also that people on Fauna wants to have you post your idea there so they can see as well. I will give you a shot to text it to me first so if I don't think its fair then you don't post it and get blasted. Going to bed, goodnight"

I figure I would give him that. I do know that last year when this came up he offered me $50 off a hognose he had for sale for like $450. And to correct the timeline, I have had this snake for 3 1/2 year but waited to breed him until last year.
 
Randy F said:
I texted him last night and have not heard from him, but it is a Sunday. Just told him

"Sorry been out and just got in. Had a few people text me also that people on Fauna wants to have you post your idea there so they can see as well. I will give you a shot to text it to me first so if I don't think its fair then you don't post it and get blasted. Going to bed, goodnight"

I figure I would give him that. I do know that last year when this came up he offered me $50 off a hognose he had for sale for like $450. And to correct the timeline, I have had this snake for 3 1/2 year but waited to breed him until last year.
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Randy. Call him. Open the lines of communication. Don't agree to anything. Don't admit your sorry to anything.

But call him. Call him. Tell him straight off that you are only doing it to hear his side. Not agree with it, just to hear it. Let him tell you what he wants to do. Don't agree to it. Tell him that you will consider the offer only have it is either written here, texted, or emailed to you.

Be nice, be polite. If he insists anything that does not include getting it written down, tell him that it has to be written down. If he does not agree to that, hang up.

One last thing. Tell him that he is being recorded. Tell him that if he does not agree to be record then this conversation should happen on the forums, email, or text. (tell him that he is being record, you legally have to in califorina)

There needs to be a give and take here. He wants a phone call, call him. But he has to give up not having anything in writing.
 
Well I just seen this thread and have not had a chance to read it entirely but it looks like old Dav is up to his same dealings.

I purchased three animals from him last year. A double het snow female and two conda 66% pos het toffee. Well he shipped them when it was 10 Degrees out with no heat pack. The actually survived though. They came in very stiff and lethargic but came around a few hours after being warmed up.

The female double het was very skinny to the point I didn't feel comfortable putting her anywhere near my collection for fear of possible parasites. The two condas pos het toffee were both males.

Needless to say I told him I would send all three back for a full refund. Well that's when it all started. He said it was to cold to ship back the next day even though I told him I would take full responsibility of the animals. I have been shipping reptiles for over 20 years and I never have a problem. So then he was always too busy and could never be home to accept a package.

After two months of playing his games I finally got him to agree to take the animals back but then he had all kinds of stipulations such as if he feels they are not in the same condition as he sent them I get nothing. And I would only get a refund if and when he resold the animals. It was a total joke.

He also tried to use the old I did not produce these and they were a friends etc. but did not mention any of this until after I had a problem with the mis sexed snakes. Well he got them and then I had to wait another three months for my money.

I finally had to threaten to come on the BOI and told him that I have been doing this for a long time and I would make sure everyone found out how he does business. All in all I had to eat the PayPal fees both ways and shipping so I lost 170.00 on the deal for his mistakes. I wasn't going to post anything about him but after I seen this it’s obviously a pattern with him so I would rather warn as many people as possible about him. Paul Wyble at Steel City Exotics
 
wyblep said:
I wasn't going to post anything about him but after I seen this it’s obviously a pattern with him so I would rather warn as many people as possible about him. Paul Wyble at Steel City Exotics
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Same mistake I made. There's definitely a pattern here. Lots of excuses and counter-accusations and stalling. Anything to get out of taking responsibilty.
 
The true measure of a person is NOT how they deal with their successful deals, its how they handle the failures and mistakes
Old saying..."hero to zero in 60 seconds flat"
 
ok so I just got off the phone with Dav for almost an hour. It had a unsure start but will say it ended on a positive. We actually laughed at each other. He took 100% responsibility for not responding to my texts, even to just tell me he was busy and when he would get back to me. He admitted to seeing where my situation led me here, even though he wished I would have called and saved everyone this. He did tell me that the snake was a trade, that he got it mixed up with one he brokered for someone. At this moment there is an offer on the table that I believe is completely fair, and more than I expected. We had to cut it short but I will update it after we talk again.
 
Randy F said:
ok so I just got off the phone with Dav for almost an hour. It had a unsure start but will say it ended on a positive. We actually laughed at each other. He took 100% responsibility for not responding to my texts, even to just tell me he was busy and when he would get back to me. He admitted to seeing where my situation led me here, even though he wished I would have called and saved everyone this. He did tell me that the snake was a trade, that he got it mixed up with one he brokered for someone. At this moment there is an offer on the table that I believe is completely fair, and more than I expected. We had to cut it short but I will update it after we talk again.
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That is INDEED excellent news Randy, hope it does work out as you hope
Good luck!
 
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