Dave Lawson & Neil Gubitz

[Stardust]

Neil, thank you for posting that publicly. I would not have asked you to, as my daughter and I consider it over, done and in the past. Not to mention the Rainbows you sent me are just beautiful.
Some on here may think I am a fool or being silly. That is fine with me. I do and say in my life what is best for me and what I believe to be the right path. I have also found many on this board that do not fault me for just being me. This is me.
I really enjoy fauna. All the ups and downs, everything.
Webslave, keep up the good work, and even though I have complained at times as well, I know it is all part of the site and that you are trying to make it the best AND fairest site you can. That is all one can ask for, Thank you.

 

[robin d.]

alan,
webslave summer it up pretty much why he doesnt post the poll on the boi and personally i gotta agree with him there.......

And yes, I do expect someone to say that they can't find the poll if it is not here on the BOI. Well, maybe that is indicative of a problem as well. If you only come onto this site to go to the BOI looking for car wrecks (as someone put it), then maybe you are not the best person to have any influence in this site. If that is what 5,980 people want out of this site, then it is just as clear that anything I do that does not infringe on the car wreck viewing is not any of their concern.

if i person wants to know whats doing on and whats new they can simply click on the view new threads link on the front page. anything new including webslaves polls or questions will come up... its not like clicking a button is hard.
if others arent interested in this, so be it but if you(not you just the word you in general) dont like what he is doing yet never voted or replied to his questions or added imput you really have no room to bitch.
i see voting for politicians the same way, if i vote and the politician or law doesnt get voted in, i have every reason to bitch now if i didnt vote and i dont like what that person is doing... i have no room to bitch because i never put my imput in the first time around... and its the tough cookies kinda thing...


hopefully this makes sense.. i a off to work

 

[The BoidSmith]

Rozann,

No problem. I do enjoy your posts and more than welcome your comments. How's "spotty" doing?

Back on track. My comment was meant to be "general" and not pointed at Neil. As a matter of fact Adam was in a similar situation sometime ago. A representative poll at this point in time, would more than likely favored Neil's come back, particulalrly in the light of the recent findings.

Regards

 

[Stardust]

As per Webslaves request I have have taken my portion of the banning topic over to the proper place that he had posted a link to.
Alvaro, He is just fine Getting held daily and is oh so gentle. I think he is about ready for a nice winters nap. Is that his name? I will stick to it. And yes, I am a schmuck that names ALL my animals.

 

[CheriS]

As some of you know, I left posting here much over being sick over the attacks on Neil and the cheering section that rallied around it with no direct knowledge of anything.

PI reports, let me tell you something, I worked for the state attorney's office, most of them can be throw in the trash can as soon as released. I have too often seen how they are manipulated by the investigators who at times are involved in criminal activities themselves or personal agendas. One investigator had so many men put in jail..... until we started matching up reports and seeing the same things in them!

Neil....... for those that do not know him personally, I want to clarify somethings...... Axe and I have been to his home when he was not expecting anyone, on VERY short notice (about an hour), we have seen his animals there, hundreds of them and you know what, not a unpleasant smell in the house or an animal I would hesitate to bring into my home.

He allowed us to open every bin and see every animals he had, the worst I can say is some newpapers were starting to turn yellow from age and one dragon's bowl was dirty, but then I just cleaned mine at noon and it's dirty now at 3 pm!

I have known Neil for over 3 years now, never has he been anything but factual and respectful towards me... and he had NOTHING to gain from trying to impress me. I have never been a buyer from him, he has never profited off me or likely too. I have never found him to be anything but polite and truthful to me and an open book to inspect anything we wanted to. I even checked his books, well organized and logs kept, each animal in, where from and when it arrived and were it was sent when sold.

Sorry, I will always beleive my own eyes over any PI report or post from others just playing rah rah games, I got out of high school many years ago, maybe a few others need to move on also.

 

[ScottsReptiles]

I like the point system.. if you can't be adult enough to disagree with someone in a proper manner.. then you do not deserve to be treated like an adult.

I think someone mentioned a 3 strikes and you are out system.. don't we already do that... what is it.. 25 points and you are out?

 

[Stardust]

Glad you posted Cheri, as I respect your opinion. Thank you.

 

[brucestephenson]

I say we should do it just like on the most respected and popular and real program on network television:
Every Friday night webslave comes out of the bushes in his loincloth and a funny hat and we vote another punk off the BOI.

 

[Julie Moore]

I Really Want To Clear Something Up. . .

Now I know this is ‘slightly’ off topic, but it does have to do with Lawson and his deceitful behavior. From my previous post I had mentioned about Lawson getting into my e-mail addresses and locking me out of them. About an hour ago I had something very disturbing brought to my attention in regards to what Dave was e-mailing to people when he still had access to those email accounts. I was just told that Lawson has been emailing/telling people that I had a baby by him. Can you say “phsycho”?! That is in absolutely no way shape or form even remotely true!!! It has been my understanding that there were many many e-mails that got sent out – even to people I have never even talked to, much less even met. So to make me feel better about that having happened and just for the record – if you received any e-mail from any of the following e-mail addresses back in June-August 2002 – they weren’t actually from *ME* – [email protected], [email protected], or [email protected]. I only got ahold of one of the emails that were going around and it was just awful. Well anywhoo - thanks for reading this. . .

 

[Adam Block]

Neil....... for those that do not know him personally

Very well said Cheri, one of my biggest issue with the BOI has always been the looky-loooos commenting. People that know nothing about either party, have never met or even spoken to them on the phone but still have all these assumptions.

The internet is very trick and human nature compels us to stick up for ourselfs when people are saying untrue things. Saying untrue things or making false assumptions is fairly easy to do when all you're basing things on is written word.

It like Jeff Miller in the Bob Clark thread. People are ready to kill the girl over knowing Jeff but he's a pretty nice guy. I know many people in Phoenix that know him and he's done more for and been nicer to them then I even would and I go way out of my way to help people. I mean, I don't know anything about the deal with Bob or do I want to get into that but my point is to convict somebody for even knowing another person is just a clear sign of how people work in the BOI

 

[Python Dreams]

It's weird how some people relate their experience to remarks about "penis size" and "high school".. Would this be useful information or slight attacks? We here about rah rah sections against Neil, then with every good post we have 3 or 4 more congratulating a person for posting something good. Why are you all so special that that is o.k., but when someone thinks that Neil is a slime, liar, cheat or anyother thing, and come out and say it they are just awful... Why do people have to incert their 2 cents time and time again. A couple posts in a thread should get your point across. We dont need a cheering section for anyone with a similar attitude, and if you want to cheer about the good, dont be a hypocrite if someone cheers about the bad... In fact, with Cheri's post, it would seem that Neil is an angel and the PI report is the only thing that people have against him... He probably only sends out top notch animals in perfect condition... He would never send out a dead snake or Uro, or even feed a large rabbit the night before he shipped a Burm.. He would never berate someone for things then shortly thereafter apologize for doing the same.... I've been reading the BOI for a long time and I've seen him berate people, lie, send out sick animals, and just about anytime something went wrong it would take pages before Neil would do "the right thing".. That doesn't even begin to go into what people may have heard behind the scenes.. I would say he started what many people have referred to as "the clique" by berating people, that probably kept others from posting. Also I don't think that referring to someones viewpoint as "silly" is such a bad thing, just very surprising to me after what you have been through... And very naive if you think this is an isolated experience...
Thanks, Tom Baker

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Sorry, Tom.... I'm not going to stoop to that level anymore.... no more berating, no more name calling, no more sending out snakes that just ate, no more sending out sick animals, no more arguing, no more saying your "opinion" is wrong.... but, there isn't a person on Earth who has not done something in their past that they haven't had to apologize for.... everyone has had to say I'm sorry for something at one point in their lives.... and my mistakes happened over a year ago.... if you're the type of man that can't (or won't) accept a sincere apology from someone, well, that just says a lot about you.... not me.... even Ritchie is giving me the benefit of the doubt (which he doesn't have to do) and is going to see for himself where I go from here.... and I thank him for that!....
I've gotten a lot of private emails over the last day or two acknowledging the fact of what I've been put through over the last three years and they're actually happy to see me back.... if you're not one of them, that's your prerogative....
This will be the last you hear from me on this subject, I've apologized publicly to everyone I've hurt verbally, I've made good on the bad animals I sent out (the one's I know about, anyway), that's all a person can do.... either accept it and move on, or not....
Neil

 

[Neil Gubitz]

I just got this "wonderful" email from one of my best friends on this site....

---------------------------

it was far less than a year ago

Yo gubitz,

It was not a year ago that you sent that uro to Rozann. Perhaps you should go and correct your post since you have turned over all these leaves and are NO LONGER LYING.

I figured I'd try it in private and give you that chance you're asking for. You and I both know I'm right on this one. So why don't you stoop on down to my level and actually tell the truth.

Wes
---------------------------

I guess my memory is off again.... the fact is, no matter when it was, it has been made right....

I hope that makes you happy, now....

Neil

 

[Wilomn]

No, best buddy, the fact IS that in the same post where you claim to no longer be your old self, the unpleasant one who sold sick and dying animals, you LIED again.

I didn't see any change, which is why I pm'd you to let you know that your "faulty memory" had ONCE AGAIN let you down.

Wes Pollock

 

[CheriS]

Tom,

Since you put my name in that post, I can only think that it was addressed to me..... you know, opinions are like (insert rear part of anatomy here) everyone has one, some are larger than other and blow more hot air.

You says so much more than I did and add to it so well, perhaps I should just email you in the future and let you post for me?

That doesn't even begin to go into what people may have heard behind the scenes..

that's the point I was making about high school...... I left high school and playing those games a long time ago. I meant, I trust my own eyes rather than someone typing on a screen 4000 miles away relating something they read on a screen also by others what we don't know the whole story to, then jumping on the bandwagon and branding them.

If you buy into that (which for months here, others did and were beating someone else up over it,) I know a 400 lb guy that is real good at telling others he is a blonde haired, blue eyed 115 lb female, that is looking for a good time online. In chat channels we call them "posers" and the people that follow them gullible.

Neil was charged, found guilty and prosecuted by people here on a subject with no facts but a PI report and others with even less a clue, that he did something so terrible and fraudulent. That had to have put him through hell for months, and that in itself can drive someone to be desperate.......Being falsely accused and branded for something is horrible for anyone, harming their business over it is disgusting...... and gee.... he did not do it. Now..... who looks silly? When that mud did not stick, let's start harping on other things and name calling, as we just can't let go and admit we were fooled and owe him an apology for that. As I said, everyone has one and is entitled to it, but don't get your hormone levels in a knot over it differing from you and what you so wanted it to be.

I never said Neil was perfect, I related my *known* knowledge of him and what we looked at and saw with our own eyes from a short notice visit to his home that he had no idea we were going to pull. I also related my experiences with PI & PI reports, they are mostly opinions, and faulty... period.... and I think working for the state for many years in the fraud department as an investigator and testifying in court regarding them qualifies me as knowledgeable on that subject, the judges seems to think so.

Perhaps you are more qualified reading a monitor in California than me sitting in his home, viewing books, records and animal's conditions.....or face to face contact with him over 3 years, I will leave that for others to decide.

My questions still are, what is YOUR personal experiences with him? If you don't have any......... LET IT GO, be a man, not a parrot. Stand on your own feet, not rah rah others that are in the same ship with you with too many oars in the water on one side. If you have one, tell it in the proper form, thats what is the good about the BOI is..... and the bad is the name calling and bashing from others with NO personal knowledge....... only what they read

my 2 cents for only the 2nd and I hope the last in this thread.. no, my guarantee it's the last, this foolishness is not worth the time and effort, I have constructive things to do that amount to something. This and my prior post remain and say what I needed to say

 

[WebSlave]

Neil was charged, found guilty and prosecuted by people here on a subject with no facts but a PI report and others with even less a clue, that he did something so terrible and fraudulent.

Cheri - I'm going to have to disagree with you here. For one thing, the PI report did not become public until long after public opinion mostly turned against Neil Gubitz. I purposely waited an entire year after I received the PI report before getting it posted on here in it's entirety, and up until I read it HERE, I never laid eyes on the original document. So certainly, no one else here read it prior to that time either. It was sent to someone still sealed in the original envelope. The contents of that document had no bearing whatsoever on public opinion formed prior to the reading of it here on the BOI. Certainly there was some speculation, but I believe it had only minimal bearing on public opinion.

What DID have a bearing, was Neil's attitude in the postings he made here on the BOI. THAT is what most people judged Neil by. It was quite enough for many people to form an opinion and those facts were all they needed in order to feel the way they did. As I have said several times over the years, the BOI is a great place for people to wrap a rope around their neck and jump off a cliff. It is also a good place for people to catch themselves in time before jumping and start mending their ways, so maybe, just maybe, Neil will start unwrapping the rope. Time will tell, I guess.

People's opinions DO count here and are actively solicited. People post here because they WANT other people's opinions, in most cases. It is not a requirement to actually have done business with someone in order to form an opinion. But people will study those "facts" presented, and form their own opinions about what is the real problem of the issue at hand. And it certainly does not have to agree with the person originally starting the thread.

And as we have readily seen, someone saying someone else is a bad guy is NOT automatically the good guy. Even "facts" are subject to opinion as to their validity and the credibility of the person stating them. And those opinions can certainly be based on either the gullibility or the skepticism of the person reading the "facts" presented.

I did not name this the "Board of Inquiry" by accident.

 

[Python Dreams]

Cheri,
My whole post was not directed at you, but I have no problem addressing your issues. First off, I don't think that I posted once in the threads about Neil breaking into his own store (might have, but really dont think that I did), not to mention that I really had no idea who actually did it due to the characters involved and their tendency to forget and lie and then be uncovered ina lie, and on and on.... My hormone levels are just fine since I will say it slowly for you... MY OPINION IS NOT BASED ON THE BREAK INS OR THE PI REPORT.... I also think that you are the one being gullible here... I am basing this my opinion off threads that I have read here publicly, not off what is considered to be popular opinion, and generally only comment when I see it is one sided or were losing sight of an individuals real character.... I have not jumped on any bandwagon. I am a man and I do stand on my own two feet... You will not hear of me doing any bad deals and will do whatever possible to make a customer happy... I know things go wrong, but it is how you handle them that makes the difference.... My personal experience ranges from reading here on the BOI to hearing a friends stories about dealings... This is not "high schoolish", it is just not my business, and if this person does not want to post it, then so be it, out of respect I will not either... Does not mean that it did not happen... But since I believe you said that you have never done business with Neil, what about you? Are you knowledgeable about his business dealings due to the fact that you've seen his collection? Just skim over all the bad dealings he had here, since you've seen his house on short notice..... You talk about the bad things being name calling and harping about people you dont know about..... You don't know me.... I haven't posted enough here for you to actually have any knowledge of me... No bad dealings, only one good dealing that was posted... Yet you know enought to name call or claim these things: My opinion is like an #$% hole!, I'm jumping on a bandwagon!, I'm gullible!, My hormone levels are in a knot!, I'm a parrot!, I'm ina boat with too many oars on one side!, I'm a part of foolishness. No name calling or harping right? All that I know about you is that Neil is basically a great business man that should be trusted, and that you associate with a 400 pound man that lies and says he's a 115 pound young women for internet sex... Maybe you should ask me before you post....
Neil,
I really don't hold anything peronally against you and it may be hard to see that. I just have no problem reminding people of recent past due to the fact that "history repeats itself".. I said earlier that I thought you were intelligent, witty, and probably very friendly. I really do hope we only hear of good business dealing from here on out. It really seems like the only logical way to run a business.
Thanks, Tom Baker

 

[Adam Block]

"history repeats itself"

That's a very foolish way to think.

The only thing we have to base the future on is the past I'll agree but by no means is that the same statement.

At 16 I took my 1975 Caprice out with 3 friends lying on the roof, after hitting 100 mph I then sat on the door out an open window and drove with one hand. I can tell you right now for $100,000 that won't happen again.

It's people that say things like that who never help bring change about because they're so set in their ways they don't think others can grow, mature and change.

People do things wrong, make mistakes. I relish mine as they're the only gauge I have to how much I've learned in life. If you don't think you're in control of your own life and are too weak to bring about change don't pass that flawed thinking on to other people.

Most of the people on the BOI never pick up a phone and get to know the person on the other end. I don't know if it's out of fear that they might like them.....about, they don't want to deal with the guilt of the judgements they pass with such ease. Or what the reason. No matter, my feeling, has been from the start, is if you don't know the person, have never dealt with them and have made no effort to find out who they really are. My feeling then is you're weak and need to prey on the weaker to make yourself feel like you have some self worth.

The BOI shocked me and gave me my first taste of what people are really about. It taught me A LOT about human nature and myself. If I don't know the person in the thread, VERY Rarely will I even read it as I can't give any real feedback. The people that have to post in, follow up on and give their $.02 in every little bad guy post are no better then those people we all hate, you know the ones that watch soaps all day, tell their friends how so and so is cheating, drive slow past any car crash with the head turned and always need to give their life meaning by, demeaning you.

Ah, what the heck am I talking about? Screw it, don't even read this, it's a bunch of garbage and while I think it's true I would delete it if I hadn't typed so much.

 

[John Apple]

Past present future

Neils past and present we all know now
it's his future we don't know...soooooo keep turning Neil
and good luck.
your a pretty smart guy ,so all you gotta do is earn the respect you once had.
I am willing to give you some respect for the future [but work at earning it]
In this reptile business what I am finding is that unity works, such as all the fine folks that came to the caucus in Ann Arbor to help with the reptile laws that the board was trying to pass. And it helped all the fine folks in Ann Arbor that have reptiles.


good luck Neil

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Thanks, John.... Without Lawson around, that will be a piece of cake!!.... You have no idea how relieved I am that the TRUTH has finally come out for the world to see!....

Stay tuned.... more TRUTH will be coming out later today, too!

Neil