Inquiry David Freeman Carolina Classic Dragons

[Khaldrago]

rep?

what even shows more infantile behavior from them is the fact my reputation for simply responding to a situation with my viewpoint has given me a negative reputation now ? These are the people we are dealing with. wow.

 

[dragonluver83]

But they will burn themselves on heat rock though Really I think we are assuming to much here. Too little info and no one will ever know.

Only a electric heat rock, with a heat lamp above.

A nice river rock is GREAT for a dragon!

Anthony, even if the dragon arrived live and then died three hours later, would that have changed the refund eligibility? One thing is for certain, it was an accident and someone has to eat it. If the seller doesn't eat it, regardless of who is right or wrong, it's going to leave prospective buyers leery unless you can prove it was the buyer and prove it without doubt, otherwise it looks like you are trying to wiggle your way out of a refund REGARDLESS of who's right or wrong. It's part of the gamble, pay to play. That's the bottom line and all you can do is depend on karma if you got cheated.

It really does suck but does losing that dragon before it hatches really differ that much from losing it in shipping? The fault shouldn't change. Until you have a happy customer, you don't really deserve that money IMO (by you I mean whoever).

Agreed, David just bought a adult. It is dead. There is no way of knowing what happened. Fact is the buyer has a dead dragon.

I thought 350 wasnt bad, so they could meet in the middle. But price break down goes 367.50.

Its time for a resolution.

Anthony if you want to make it, you have to cut losses. 68 dollars to walk away from this. Not to save face. But show you can be fair and work with others in this hobby when deals go down the drain. It's a small price to pay.

David agreed with the 367.50. Its kinda your call now. I hope you can step up.

 

[dragonluver83]

So simply because you havent seen it happen doesnt mean it cant?!

So what is option 3. We all see you watching the thread.

When you have shipped and received as many packages as i have. You dont miss much.

Sure 300 gram dragons sit on top of newspaper, like water sits on top of oil

Be logical, think about stuff. Dont hurt yourself thinking of my previous statement either.

 

[Chrisw]

When you have shipped and received as many packages as i have. You dont miss much.

Sure 300 gram dragons sit on top of newspaper, like water sits on top of oil

Be logical, think about stuff. Dont hurt yourself thinking of my previous statement either.

 

[yourbeat]

Just as i said before in previous post's, i never once said i was not giving moneyu back for the dead dragon. What i did question was the amount. I offered dave 300$ which is what i felt was a fair and reasonable offer considering she was by far without any arguing genetically inferior to the visible Hypo Trans Dragon. I didnt think my offer was unfair or off the wall in anyway i thought it was spot on considering the dragon thats still alive is a more valuable dragon. after shipping and paypal fees that i payed, i was right at 700$ so 400$ for the hypo trans and 300$ for the trans POSS het hypo seemed like a very decent and logical offer to me. David is the one who flat out in 5 seconds returned my email with a NO thinking he is owed 400$ when i only walked with 700$ after paying fees and shipping. when i came to this thread i simply asked for advice which all spun out of control and off topic. i DO 100% believe there are many holes in Daves story and i do not feel comfortable with his story and how things went down what so ever. but i never once said dave was gettin burnt or beat for money although i will be 100% honest after justins recent adorable comment i thought about doing just that, and saying dave your beat. but thats not who i am, i never once said he was beat for money i was disputing the amount of money which dave was owed, and i still am and that is why i havnt responded to every post made on here because i have been reading and just thinking about what my decision is. but when people who were not involved in this deal go from giving an opinion, to demanding what option i pick, is not going to make me decide any sooner about what I want to do being the seller in this situation, it is at the end my call on how to handle it. i was never intending on walking away with daves money just trying to figure out what was fair.....i think the 300$ offer was indeed fair.

 

[yourbeat]

im sorry his name is Justus, not justin.

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

Or left in the box and UN-intentionally killed? Another thing is why was one dragon dead and the other one alive?

So Tom, why is it that one dragon was dead and the other was perfectly fine? You and Anthony both contradict yourselves. If this had anything to do with the little time that passed before I opened the box, the other dragon would have suffered too. Do you think the dragons death might have been due to the fact that the dragon worked it's way out of the bag and something tragic happened? I never said it was heat that killed it, someone else brought that point up. I do not know the cause of death. We have all speculated why this dragon might have died but I guarantee you that part of the reason is because it wasn't in the bag (again, I never ship in bags but that is my way of doing it) or any other shipping container.

DONT think a dragon is dumb enough to lay on a heat pack when its hot. Doubt it. Which the dragon was on top of all the newspaper not covered up at all. i have had dragons shipped in nothing but a box with newspaper and never seen the dragon ON TOP... I always had to look for the dragon. Especially a larger dragon. Its weight alone would keep it pressed down under anything light. Like newspaper...............

I would guess that you haven't ever seen this because you have never had to open up a box to a dead dragon outside of any container. I did and the dragon was laying right there on top. When you look at the picture, only the tail and part of its hind legs were in contact with the heat pack. Looks to me as if the dragon was smart enough to point his head opposite the heat and attempt to get away from the heat.

You know the funny thing. I guarantee my animals for 6 weeks. BUT what the buyer did in this case. Would have voided his warranty. Me being me, I would have worked something out. But if you read my T.O.S. the warranty would have been void due to a almost 2 hrs with no notice of a d.o.a.

If the dragon was contained, the dragon probably would not have died. The other dragon was contained, the other dragon did not die. I ship dragons all the time that stay in boxes a lot longer than these dragons did and they do not die.

Well should it not of been used? Or a lesser heat pack should of been used?

It was cold in Philly. What was the temp in a airplane at 30 thousand feet? I dont think they have heated cabs?

So you would have used a heat pack Tom? Most of the dragons we all ship get shipped in an airplane and see 30,000 feet. You don't use heat packs because of that do you? NO! I just made shipments earlier this week to Colorado, Oregon, and Washington and I know enough about the temps at those destinations and the temps here and I did not use any heat. Dragons all arrived safe and sound. When I use cold packs or heat packs, same outcome.

There are no flaws at all in what transpired here. When I inspected the bottom of the styrofoam lid, I can see where the tape came undone during transit. This clear packing tape on styrofoam never sticks well. The heat pack itself wasn't wrapped in anything and it fell off the styrofoam. Maybe the one section of the bag didnt get caught in the zip tie? Regardless, the dragon got out threw the hole seen in the picture. What don't you get here?

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

That last post I made took forever. I do not have as much experience on this BOI as other parties do!

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

Right, but how does it end up on top of the paper not covered up at all??? and on top of the heat pack?

I sold alot of dragons, never seen them claw outta a bag either. And NEVER seen them on top of newspaper.

I dont like it.........

Tom why do you sound one way in your PM's to me and then a complete opposite way in your posts on here? You like to talk out of both sides of your mouth. Let me post the last exchange of PM's...

Tom,

I think all of this is nonsense. This has never been about the money. He is accusing me and making false claims. Enough is enough.


Well just sit in his seat one sec.

He had a adult that was alive and well and it died over nite. If you sent a adult out over night that was as healthy as a horse your suspension will arise too.

And there are a few things that sound weird in this story.

I think the only thing that helps you here is you being who you are. I AM giving you the benefit of the doubt. Just trying to show why anthony is confused about what happened.

Im pretty sure you can see I am on your side with the refund. Just trying to make it right.

You do also know that hypo trans are worth more than translucents. So getting half your $ back isnt such a bad deal...

 

[JCCS]

You know, talking about an NC bandwagon coming to David's defense as a bad thing is just not the most well thought out idea I've ever heard, Tom. If I were to question someone on something, especially their integrity, and a large number of people that personally know him or at least have met him and seen his animals and had first hand encounters with him come to his defense, I would probably think that I judged too soon, that maybe I don't know the individual that I'm accusing of whatever it is.

I have met David several times, can't claim to know him that well, but he seemed to be a good guy with great animals. I didn't come to his defense and won't on this topic because I just don't know him well enough to blindly do that as I don't know the situation first hand. I do however think that other people on this thread do know him well enough to know that he would never do anything to endanger an animal.

Whoever shipped that dragon did a crappy job, give David the $367.50 and stop whining about it, Anthony. It's not that difficult to do the right thing.

Chris

 

[KelliH]

. I know you probably think im a but I do smile when I read most of your post?

Just one little thing, the buyer wasnt totally confused about the refund. It was leary to him about the D.O.A. The two hour contact. Then the fact that the dragon was sitting on Top of the packing and heat pack.

There is evidence here that a less rep. guy would have been questioned about. But because of David's rep It's going to be over looked.

Hehe. Well no, not really Tom, I don't think of you as anything.

I also have to say that I have had a bearded dragon sitting on top of the newspaper, right there where this dead one was, when I removed the top piece of styro. That dragon was from Kevin Dunne, and I'll never forget it because I was startled and then surprised that a dragon would be shipped without being contained in a bag or deli cup.

I've had more than one leopard gecko that has escaped out of a deli cup along the way during the shipping journey and has been sitting there (on top of the newspaper) looking up at me when I removed the top styro piece.

Tom, since you've been doing this for a whole three years and have all this reptile business experience, what is your opinion of why the hell David would go through the trouble of staging the DOA photo? It makes no sense at all! What difference would it make? If the dragon was DOA in the bag/excaped out of the bag, overheated because of piss poor packing/packed absolutely perfectly, it makes no difference! The dragon is dead and David should have been refunded immediately! This thread should not have even been posted, but I am glad it is here because it shows the OP to be someone that is not good to do business with.

Extremely unprofessional behavior from the OP!

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

So Paypal me $300 and lets end this. Oh wait, they are going to take fee out...please add...oh, never mind

I have learned that no matter what you do to protect yourself as a buyer, it isnt going to matter. You can take pics, you can do all the right things, you can have the soundest of reason, you can have a stellar reputation... it all doesn't make a difference when the almighty dollar is involved. People will twist your words, conjure up crazy ideas, and stab you in the back. I have learned who I will never buy from, who I will never sell from. I have learned that some think their poop don't stink... sorry, it does. Some think they know a lot more than they do. I have learned that some think I am a head. To have people in this business think of me this way, I must be doing something right.

 

[yourbeat]

ok so let me get this straight, you already have your mind made up but im supposed to refund dave his money to save some sort of reputation which you have already made up your mind about? seems a little pointless to me doesn't it? i never told dave he wasn't getting money, and i came here asking questions originally. It blew up into what it is right now. but i have done business with several people on here and this would be the first time where I was this supposed terrible person to do business with.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Hi All,
My name is Tom Constance and I own and operate TND Dragons. I supervised the packing of these animals. The heat-pac was used because it was in the mid to low 40's in Philadelphia. The heat-pac was tapped to the lid with 4 pieces of tape. The animals themselves where bagged. The 1 that lived was in a snake bag. The one that passed was in a pillow case with a zip tie. Both bags contained paper towels and the animals where put in the bottom of the box and then covered with news paper. I saw nothing wrong with the way the box was packed at the time because this is how I have shipped for 3 years now. I am sorry David received a DOA, and Im sorry Anthony is in the middle of a refund dispute.

 

[jellyfishrhythm]

You know, talking about an NC bandwagon coming to David's defense as a bad thing is just not the most well thought out idea I've ever heard, Tom. If I were to question someone on something, especially their integrity, and a large number of people that personally know him or at least have met him and seen his animals and had first hand encounters with him come to his defense, I would probably think that I judged too soon, that maybe I don't know the individual that I'm accusing of whatever it is.

I have met David several times, can't claim to know him that well, but he seemed to be a good guy with great animals. I didn't come to his defense and won't on this topic because I just don't know him well enough to blindly do that as I don't know the situation first hand. I do however think that other people on this thread do know him well enough to know that he would never do anything to endanger an animal.

Whoever shipped that dragon did a crappy job, give David the $367.50 and stop whining about it, Anthony. It's not that difficult to do the right thing.

Chris

CCS FTW!

 

[DiamondDen]

I feel that this whole boi has been brought way out of hand, I feel that David should get the $367.50 as that would be fair to both party's yeah it sucks the dragons was DOA but stuff happens. The live dragon and the dead dragon in the photos look very alike but the trans does have more color so in my opinion they are equal, but I can see why Anthony would say the hypotrans is worth more but also in the end you guys didn't decide on a set price for each dragon witch is were the problem is. but the $367.50 sounds fair.

Also I know some things don't add up but people like David, Tom, Rainbow, Myself, and so on care for these animals because it's our passion and we would do anything to help out these little critters. I don't feel that David "being in this for the passion of it" would stage the DOA photo or have done anything to the animal to cause the DOA. I don't personally know David but have talked to him a few time on here and he seems like a good guy. That being said (shouldn't of even got in this lol) i stand by that David should get the $367.50. I have also talked to Anthony and he never made himself seem like he was a bad guy at all so I'm sure this can be resolved like adults

Also say the dragon did die because of being left in the box for the little bit of time after delivery 99.9% chance if it was already that bad off it still would have died that day or came very very close to it. Also the dragon could have ingested some of the styrofoam.

Also because of the lack of communication it was not David's fault he wasn't prepared for the dragon to arrive as he didn't even know it was shipped. Not attacking you Anthony but you could have at least tested him or sent a quick email to notify him they were on there way because with the past shipments not happening how was he supposed to know it was shipped.

Corky Lynn Jordan

 

[Khaldrago]

but i never once said dave was gettin burnt or beat for money although i will be 100% honest after justins recent adorable comment i thought about doing just that, and saying dave your beat.

Well ya know .. and thanks for fixing the name btw... I do think a good sense of humor is needed in situations like this... We all enjoy the hobby, we all want our dragons healthy and we all love dragons, it's a tough sad deal to see what happened. I hope everyone involved here has more important matters in life than this forum going around in circles. Let's not beat a dead horse... It's over and I believe " yourbeat" learned a valuable lesson here and won't be a "deadbeat" when giving Dave his refund.

 

[Snake-Queen]

I am betting option 3 is to blame Dave, and refund nothing.

 

[Snake-Queen]

Sorry, last post was made before I realized there was 20+ posts.

I really think the $367.50 is fair.

I don't know why this is still persisting. The OP has stated he is going to refund ... please do so.

 

[clintdowns]

It looks to me like Dave is trying all he can to try and make things right. I think it is time for Anthony to just do what he has to do to make things right and stop with all the back and forth drama.