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Bad Guy DEAD SNAKES from Kevin South of The Constrictors Labrynth

Oh wow...first he sells a possibly sick snake pretty much right out of the box, and now we are learning of possible IBD. That...that is scary.

I don't keep snakes at the moment, but have read threads about the dreaded IBD. It scares the living daylights out of me! Nick, like Diana said, WHY was that not included in the first post in this thread? That is incredibly important information. Also, Kevin, I hope you are closing shop because of this report, and getting some animals tested as well. Yikes!
 
The Constrictors Labrynth said:
I I HONESTLY THOUGHT I had fully explained that the Het did have a "WHEEZE" but was examined by a Vet and cleared with a clean bill of health aside from an unexplainable "wheeze". He was a solid eater with no regurgitation issues and had NO DRAINAGE coming out of him at anytime.
Click to expand...

colorado said:
one arrived with snot hanging out of his nose, all 3 bagged together allowing for spread of illness!
Click to expand...


colorado said:
Report just back from vet's office. You sent me snakes with IBD, and you would have had to know it!
I posted one thing on Fauna already, if needed, a copy og the IBD report goes on fauna, unless you take care of this issue!
Click to expand...


colorado said:
I in-turn sold one of these snakes to a very nice nice young couple,
Click to expand...

At this point, vet reports should be posted by both sides for credibility purposes, and those reports need to be sent to the unsuspecting buyers.
What a mess.
 
Not sure what happened on that last post, let's try this again.

Report just back from vet's office. You sent me snakes with IBD, and you would have had to know it! I posted one thing on Fauna already, if needed, a copy og the IBD report goes on fauna, unless you take care of this issue!
Click to expand...

To me, this statement speaks volumes about the character of the OP. Regardless of anything else that may come to light, this single quote has forever solidified his place on my Do Not Sell To/Buy From List.

Using IBD as blackmail? That's pretty low whether it's true or not. If there is any proof, then you have an obligation to let the rest of the community know about it. Keeping it a secret to scare someone into fixing your transaction makes you just as dirty as the person who knowingly sells snakes with IBD (although at this point we have no reason to believe that any of Kevin's collection is infected).

Nick, It seems strange that you post a bad guy thread about somebody, but don't bother to include the most damning evidence. To me that suggests a few possibilities...

A) You're making it up (from what I've read about you, this seems most likely)
B) The snake did die from IBD, but you want to keep it secret to avoid having IBD associated with your collection
C) You already have IBD in your collection and you're trying to blame someone else for why it suddenly showed up.
 
Kevin, if snakes that are housed together can stress each other out--which is why we house them separately when not breeding--why would putting all 3 in one bag be less stressful than shipping them in their own, individual bags? I'm not getting that part. And it sounds like Nick was in touch with you more than I first believed.

I'm still not letting Nick of the hook for reselling a sick snake to the unsuspecting couple (the main reason that took focus from Kevin and directed it right back to Nick) but it looks to me like Kevin was given some opportunities to make this right with his buyer, long before it came to the BOI.

This really is a huge mess. I would love to see vet reports from both sides--from Kevin for the wheezing snake that received a clean bill of health report from his vet, and from Nick for necropsy report showing proof of IBD.
 
I didn't take the whole posts, in the interest of saving space
dheideman said:
Wait.

Nick "has a vet report proving IBD" and never MENTIONS it to Fauna?!?!?
.....................Nick -- why was the badguy thread mentioned with no mention of a positive lab report, [/I][/B]
Click to expand...

Katie.Shinkle said:
Oh wow...first he sells a possibly sick snake pretty much right out of the box, and now we are learning of possible IBD. That...that is scary.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, Nick states in his third post 5/10/11 6:11pm
Post death vet check being done, report in fairly soon, and I will post a copy.

but, in his email to Kevin at May 10, 2011 3:09 pm
Report just back from vet's office. You sent me snakes with IBD, and you would have had to know it!

Clearly, he was being less than honest....it's just a matter of whether he was withholding information here, or lying for personal gain in his email to Kevin. Either one is bad, under the circumstances....but the latter would probably hang over his head for a lot longer. This thread JUST got interesting.
 
colorado said:
Again, sold the snake as Kevin presented it, "thin", then buyers started to explain issues, which mimiced issues we had at the same time with another in the shipment.
I did not discover it was ill until after buyers emailed to explain, and exact same issues as with first.
I did not and would not sell ill snake. Anyone that has ever gotten one of our snakes knows that this is true. We are not big breeders, simple hobbyists, so we're not into doing combat here, OK. Just have a problem. I may type things wrong, I'm not an author, OK. I may explain wrong, OK.
Click to expand...

Seems your first post was more accurate than the above post trying to whitewash it. In the email you admit stating you were going to try and sell a already sick snake. "remains ill/dies" is pretty cut and dry. He was already ill by your own statement. Anybody who ever thinks of doing business with you needs to take note of this.

What I will try to do over the next few days is try to sell this guy. If he sells for more than the balance I have invested, I will send you any overage. If he does not sell or if he remains ill/dies, I will let ya know. I increased temps and will monitor daily.
You're a Pro, all the way!
Thanks-
Nick
Click to expand...

What you will try and do over the next few days is try to sell a sick snake. If he remains ill or dies you will let him know? I'm trying to find a professional way to state how pathetic your actions are but I can't.

I would suggest you provide the IBD report. Nothing you state without proof is worth much. Personally, I highly doubt you have such a report.
The way you nickel and dime people and always claim to be out of funds and can't spend anything else, I also doubt any animals have seen a VET.

Your main concern in all of this was to flip fast to not loose cash. I will not call you names but your actions are rotten to the core.

Let's see some pictures of the dead snakes and the report. Show the evidence.

 
Once again, the OP has shown horrible ethics and at the least questionable points in his posts. BUT, Kevin has also shown HORRIBLE shipping practices and very poor judgment in placing animals with questionable health issues together. For some reason this is all being lost, I agree if there is any chance of IBD, that should go to the top of the answer list. We should be able to point out the issues on BOTH ends without having to resort to attacks.

Both have shown standards and ethics that SCREAM stay away in my book !!!!
 
The Constrictors Labrynth said:
First off let me say that I will do what I reasonably can to make Nicholas happy. I have been trying to do that since the beginning. Pictures were provided and background history provided about all three boas. The Het Sharp was disclosed as a recent trade of approximately 2 months from a "CLOSE business" partner. WHO I TRUST COMPLETELY. He had this animal in his care for a few months prior. I HONESTLY THOUGHT I had fully explained that the Het did have a "WHEEZE" but was examined by a Vet and cleared with a clean bill of health aside from an unexplainable "wheeze". He was a solid eater with no regurgitation issues and had NO DRAINAGE coming out of him at anytime.
Click to expand...

As I stated, above. This snake was acquired in a recent trade from a CLOSE AND TRUSTWORTHY BREEDER IN CALIFORNIA. I am not dragging their name into this awful mess. I HONESTLY DONT HAVE A VET REPORT confirming what I was told. The wheeze was noticeable, but not severe. I never had any health issues or feeding issues. THE HET WAS FROM A TRUSTWORTHY BREEDER IN CA.

In regards to my collection and breeding facility. As I said it had been only a couple of months approximately, so this boa was never brought out of quarantine. He was showing excellent progress, but I require a minimum 90 quarantine and sometimes up to 6 months depending on who I got the snake from. I was confident in the snakes health to sell it and wasn't looking to make a HUGE sale, but instead be gracious and help Nicholas out since the Het didn't fit into my breedings and was a recently acquired snake.

I am pretty sure, but not 100% positive that this was all clearly laid out and explained.

I dont know how Nicholas keeps his animals, but they were thrown all together right out of the box from what I have read.

In regards to the shipping snakes together in the same container. I dont want to mention names, or even address that issue. All I will say is eveyone has their own opinion on that just like most other issues. I would not have sold a sick snake or risked the health of other snakes to make ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY, LET ALONE $100 WHICH WAS REFUNDED IN FULL ALONG WITH A FREE PAIR OF PH VPI JUNGLE PAIR FROM RUBEN AND A OFFER OF $75 OFF NEXT PURCHASE. All of this was fully desired and accepted by Nicholas with open arms.

If he had chosen to quarantine these snakes as most would have. This would have never been an issue. These snakes have been in his care since 3/17/11 and I have no control as to what they have been exposed to or any stress they have been subject to.
 
The Constrictors Labrynth said:
A I HONESTLY DONT HAVE A VET REPORT.
Click to expand...

If you are telling the truth, the vet's office would be glad to look back on your visit and issue you a 'no problems noted' or whatever the vet DID note the day you took the snake to the vet. Get it. Show it.

If you are not telling the truth, you will make up some unlikely excuse for not providing documentation.
 
The Constrictors Labrynth said:
so this boa was never brought out of quarantine. He was showing excellent progress, but I require a minimum 90 quarantine and sometimes up to 6 months depending on who I got the snake from.

If he had chosen to quarantine these snakes as most would have. This would have never been an issue.
Click to expand...

So HE should quarantine, but you shouldn't? Not following how that was doing Nick a huge favor.
 
I think both sides didnt do something right, and wherever the snakes got IBD, whether via in transport, at Kevins, or at Nicks, I hope both of them are taking precautions to handle the rest of their snakes and reptiles in a sanitary manner that way wherever the IBD is, its not infecting anyone else.

And as for a wheeze... that just seems weird to me. I wouldnt sell ANY product, living or not, to anyone if there was something slightly wrong with it.
A bump on the side of the box, a crack in the side of a plate, a snake that has a wheeze... this all seems really.. odd.
 
Basically, we've come down to two different stories about the condition of the animals - and neither party has offered anything in the way of proof. Kevin has admitted that one of the snakes had a chronic wheeze; but he's denying that there was every any discharge, and stating that he animal was otherwise outwardly healthy....and that the wheeze was disclosed to the buyer.

I'm not "letting Kevin off the hook", so to speak....but Nick hasn't shown any proof of his claims. Instead, he's thrown an accusation of IBD into things; and it's pretty obvious the damage such a claim can do to a seller. It's put up or shut up time, Nick...POST THE REPORT.
 
Well Kevin did take the snake to the vet because of the wheeze right? Then he should have paperwork laying somewhere.
Everyone has a scanner nowadays, Kevin do you have a scanner that you can use that way we can see a copy of the vet visit for the wheeze on the one snake?

And if nick took the animals to the vet before they died, then he should have paperwork too.

I hope everything gets posted. That way we can find out what really happened.

Note: Im new to the herp community and had to google IBD... dear god that stuff looks horrendous. Horrendous. I think it would tear my heart out if something like that happened to Eve.. I had to run in there and look at her after reading about IBD... =/
 
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