Bad Guy DEAD SNAKES from Kevin South of The Constrictors Labrynth

[hhmoore]

but, I don't see that one could rule out Nick, Kevin, or the person that sold Kevin the snake, as the snake based on what has been presented here.

Proofreading FAIL

I don't see that one could rule out Nick, Kevin, or the person that sold Kevin the snake, as the source in this case...at least not based on what has been presented here

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Regardless of what the final results state, I'm going to have to at least offer up a apology to Nick on one point. He did receive word from his buyer and the wording on the report would convince any novice that they had a IBD infected snake. I called him a liar and was blackmailing the seller. It appears that I was wrong. Although he still never provided anything and it took someone here to find his buyer and she provided the information, he is at least owed an apology on that point. I apologize.

 

[snakechaarmer]

I've personally never heard of a culture being doing anywhere as a test for IBD. The only close-to-solid testing I know of is biopsies processed through histopathology for the detection of inclusion bodies in liver, or brain tissue. And, as has already been stated, this snake could have inclusion bodies and could not have died of IBD. The emaciation, respiratory infection, etc...All of those factors are great contributors. As we all should know, snakes can test positive for inclusion bodies and be carrying the virus, but never be sick their entire lives.

Ultimately, we all know that IBD is still a huge, scary mystery for all of us. The only one closest to getting a lot of the answers is Dr. Elliot Jacobsen, and we need to support him as much as we can. Unfortunately, his research funds are very limited though I know he does as much as he can. I wish that donating online for his research was easier to do, as has been discussed as setting up a donation portal for his research through Paypal, but that is proving tedious in dealing with UF's IT department. I digress. Sorry to go of topic a bit.

 

[CART]

I dont know how the results are going to come back and how this matter will end, but the SIMPLE facts are:

1. Nick Blackmailed me for money or more boas by saying he would post I had IBD with my name attached to it. END IN THE END JUST WANTED TO GET MORE BOAS FROM ME FOR FREE.

2. I openly posted all emails with time stamps proving his blackmail, because I knew he was blackmailing me and lying. I also had the Het Sharp in QUARANTINE away from my entire COLLECTION until the day the 3 boas were boxed and shipped. YES I SHIPPED THEM TOGETHER AND I WONT MAKE THAT MISTAKE EVER AGAIN IN THE FUTURE.

I HAD FULL DISCLOSURE OF BOAS HEALTH AND PHOTOS PROVIDED TO NICK BEFORE THE SALE AND EVEN COMPENSATED HIM UPON HIS COMPLAINTS ABOUT WEIGHT! ONLY!!! NEVER EVER MENTIONED ANY DRAINAGE OR MUCUS FROM THE NOSE UPON RECEIPT OF THE BOAS BACK ON 3/17/11.

Nick was provided a full refund on the Het and received a free pair of boas LONG before the accusations started flying. So I didn't compensate him out of FEAR, rather to APPEASE his DISSATISFACTION FROM THE BEGINNING.

3. Nick has a long history of lying and strong arming people for money and boas.

4. Nick admits to selling a sick snake to couple. (HE HAS NEVER SHOWN PROOF THAT THE SNAKE WAS EVEN ONE OF THE ONES I SOLD TO HIM.)

5. Nick stated himself in the email I posted that he has RECEIVED OVER 300 SNAKES IN THE PAST YEAR AND HIS QUARANTINE PRACTICES AND BUSINESS ETHICS/MORALS ARE NON EXISTENT.

EVEN IF HE PROVES IT WAS THE SNAKE I SOLD TO HIM. WITH A TURN OVER RATE OF 300 PLUS SNAKES IN THE PAST YEAR. THERE NO WAY TO HONESTLY OR SERIOUSLY LAY THE BLAME AND SAY HE GOT IT FROM ME. THERE IS NO PROOF AND NO WAY TO GET PROOF. OVER 300 SNAKES IN THE PAST YEAR.

6. Nick had my boas in his possession over a MONTH under these conditions, so who knows what has happened in that time and what all his snakes were exposed to.

7. The only thing this ENTIRE EVENT has done and PROVED is what I openly admitted and disclosed to Nick that the HET did have an unexplained "wheeze" and was shipped together with 2 other boas. Anything after that is ALL NICKS WORD WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF OF ANY KIND. We can see in this thread and MANY, MANY MORE THREADS. What his word is worth.

I feel sorry for the couple and what they have done. But there has still been NO PROOF THAT THE SNAKES WERE ACTUALLY HAVING DRAINAGE OR MUCUS WHEN RECEIVED FROM ME. THAT THEY WERE ACTUALLY QUARANTINED AND WEREN'T JUST THROWN IN WITH THE OTHER HUNDREDS OF SNAKES THAT NICK HAS GOTTEN OVER THE PAST YEAR. AND THAT THE SNAKE THE COUPLE GOT WAS EVEN ONE OF THE 3 NICK GOT FROM ME.

Even if it was proven that it was one of the 3 boas from me. NO PROOF of sickness, or quarantine, or who knows what else happened over the LAST 1 1/2 months during their time with Nick.

 

[Lucille]

EVEN IF HE PROVES IT WAS THE SNAKE I SOLD TO HIM. WITH A TURN OVER RATE OF 300 PLUS SNAKES IN THE PAST YEAR. THERE NO WAY TO HONESTLY OR SERIOUSLY LAY THE BLAME AND SAY HE GOT IT FROM ME. THERE IS NO PROOF AND NO WAY TO GET PROOF. OVER 300 SNAKES IN THE PAST YEAR.

Instead of admitting how serious all of this is, and work with the community to make sure that if there are infected snakes the appropriate measures are taken, it seems like your only priority is to escape liability. I think the information coming in will give us a time frame- if that snake was ill, and it was ill with IBD, there are professionals who may be able to say how long the infection might have been present.

 

[CART]

Instead of admitting how serious all of this is, and work with the community to make sure that if there are infected snakes the appropriate measures are taken, it seems like your only priority is to escape liability. I think the information coming in will give us a time frame- if that snake was ill, and it was ill with IBD, there are professionals who may be able to say how long the infection might have been present.

Yes of course I dont like my name and business being attacked with the accusation of IBD coming from me. NO ONE HERE OR ANYWHERE WOULD. Nick has shown no proof that those boas from me were quarantined before sold and NO PROOF that the boas sold were from me at all. He has turned over 300 snakes in the past year.

I am fully aware of the seriousness of and so is everyone else. That is why the accusation is so serious in itself, with or without proof.

If IBD does appear. There is no way to trace it beyond Nick, unless you want to start attacking the young couple and saying they may have had it to begin with and Nick sold a sick snake that contracted it due to the prior illness.

There is now way to determine a timeline or origination. IBD can sit dormant in a boa its WHOLE life and never come out. That means that boa could be sold 100 times over. Infect 100 collections, but until one actually dies and a report is done. No one will be aware of the existence of IBD.

 

[Katie.Shinkle]

Kevin, can you post pics of the snakes? Can you also get a screen shot of the ad that Nick contacted you through?
Nick, can you also post pics of the snakes, preferably ones that show the problems?
Wendy, would also like to see pics of the snake you received.

 

[hhmoore]

That is more or less true, Kevin...but chronic emaciation and terminal septicemia don't happen in a month with snakes. I'd be hard pressed to argue that those things happened - start to finish - in the month that Nick had the snake. Of course, as has been pointed out many times - there is no evidence that the snake sold to Wendy was one that you sold to Nick.

Nick posting photos to document his claims would have lended some credibility to has case.

 

[CART]

That is more or less true, Kevin...but chronic emaciation and terminal septicemia don't happen in a month with snakes. I'd be hard pressed to argue that those things happened - start to finish - in the month that Nick had the snake. Of course, as has been pointed out many times - there is no evidence that the snake sold to Wendy was one that you sold to Nick.

Nick posting photos to document his claims would have lended some credibility to has case.

Also, in Nicholas's original email to me. He complains about weight. Not one thing is mentioned about discharge of any kind from any snake. He started this WHOLE thread with the statement of taking the boa out of the bag with discharge and mucus coming out of its nose.

That made it sound as if I willingly and knowingly put a snake with visual discharge into a bag with 2 perfectly healthy boas. That was not the case at all.

Unfortunately Nicholas has an AWFUL reputation and if I had known this from the beginning. I WOULD HAVE NEVER SOLD TO HIM. That would have saved me all of this head ache.

 

[Lucille]

I WOULD HAVE NEVER SOLD TO HIM.

I wouldn't sell a snake with a wheeze to anyone, but that's just me.

 

[CART]

Kevin, can you post pics of the snakes? Can you also get a screen shot of the ad that Nick contacted you through?
Nick, can you also post pics of the snakes, preferably ones that show the problems?
Wendy, would also like to see pics of the snake you received.

The ad was on Kingsnake and was removed after the sale. In the VERY first post on this thread that I did in reply to all the accusations. I posted the pictures of the 3 boas Nicholas bought, along with all our email correspondence on and after the date of receipt.

Nicholas CLAIMS DISCHARGE, THE COUPLE CLAIMS NO DISCHARGE (on the one sold to them from Nicholas), yet Nicholas has NEVER posted a PICTURE proving discharge or any other proof.

Aside for the "wheeze" I openly admitted here and to Nicholas before the sale. There has been ZERO PROOF TO SUPPORT HIS CLAIMS AND ACCUSATIONS.

 

[hhmoore]

Huh - in his first email, he complained about the weight...the vet report indicated chronic emaciation. Go figure.

 

[RobNJ]

Neither would I...and I have to agree with Harald, Kevin. Chronic emaciation and terminal septicimia are not normally conditions that run their full course in a matter of a month or 2. You probably shouldn't have sold to Nick in the first place, but now it seems you're side stepping these issues. How long were these snakes in your possession before you sold them to Nick?

 

[CART]

I wouldn't sell a snake with a wheeze to anyone, but that's just me.

Sometimes it is worth the gamble to get the genetics. That is exactly why Nicholas wanted the boa. $100 to get a PROVEN BREEDER Het Sharp is a steal. If he eats and breeds you make out like a bandit. If he doesn't breed or something happens. You are only out a small investment. You will see ads all the time of boas with physical ailments selling for low price. They stated that the ailment doesn't affect the genetics.

That is a TRUE statement and makes you consider the gamble. That is why you do FULL DISCLOSURE like I did. Nicholas knew what he was buying.

The issue of weight was compensated with a full refund. I had no problem doing that since he was UNHAPPY.

 

[CART]

Neither would I...and I have to agree with Harald, Kevin. Chronic emaciation and terminal septicimia are not normally conditions that run their full course in a matter of a month or 2. You probably shouldn't have sold to Nick in the first place, but now it seems you're side stepping these issues. How long were these snakes in your possession before you sold them to Nick?

I am not side stepping anything. All of this is in my VERY first POST on page 4.

He was in quarantine for approximately 2 months. Slight wheeze, but no drainage and was eating solidly.

ALL the health issues are CLAIMS made by Nicholas with not a single bit of PROOF. The Vet report states these things, BUT WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT IT WAS ONE OF THE 3 I SOLD NICHOLAS.

If the het had a weaken immune system already the stress and shipping alone, along with any new environmental issues introduced could and would play HAVOC on his immune system. Simple QUARANTINE would have stopped EVERYTHING from the beginning.

Nicholas would have contacted me. Gotten a refund and replacement boas and everyone would have been happy.

And he did get a full refund and a FREE replacement pair, BUT STILL BLACKMAILED ME FOR MORE BOAS

All the claims made by Nicholas about sickness and dead snakes has never been backed up with PROOF. That is the only point I am making.
THE SAME POINT THAT EVERYONE HERE HAS ALREADY REPEATEDLY.

 

[SirenSanJose]

Regardless of what the final results state, I'm going to have to at least offer up a apology to Nick on one point. He did receive word from his buyer and the wording on the report would convince any novice that they had a IBD infected snake. I called him a liar and was blackmailing the seller. It appears that I was wrong. Although he still never provided anything and it took someone here to find his buyer and she provided the information, he is at least owed an apology on that point. I apologize.

This is true. But I'm still having a lot of trouble swallowing the "if you don't do what I want, I will tell people about the IBD." Still feels like blackmail, even with the (inconclusive?) report in hand, like he wants something for "sweeping it under the rug". I sort of feel like actual, proven, known cases that can really be traced to an origin, should be made as public as possible.

 

[Lucille]

Sometimes it is worth the gamble to get the genetics. That is exactly why Nicholas wanted the boa. $100 to get a PROVEN BREEDER Het Sharp is a steal. If he eats and breeds you make out like a bandit. If he doesn't breed or something happens. You are only out a small investment. You will see ads all the time of boas with physical ailments selling for low price. They stated that the ailment doesn't affect the genetics.

That is a TRUE statement and makes you consider the gamble. That is why you do FULL DISCLOSURE like I did. Nicholas knew what he was buying.

The issue of weight was compensated with a full refund. I had no problem doing that since he was UNHAPPY.

PerHAPS you did not READ what I WROTE. I said, I would not SELL a snake with a wheeze. Once again you swiftly sidestep to talk about BUYING. YOU are the SELLER.

And did I not see several times where you say you are almost sure you disclosed? Refresh my memory and could you please pull up the disclosure email?


Regardless, I would not sell a snake with a wheeze.

 

[Lucille]

. The wheeze was noticeable, but not severe.

I am pretty sure, but not 100% positive that this was all clearly laid out and explained.

Your words.

 

[Lucille]

All right now, you have not come up with anything that definitively says that this buyer KNEW he was getting a sick snake. I say it is simply your continuing rhetoric to escape liability. I say the buyer did not know he was getting a sick snake until he opened the bag with the three snakes and saw snot.

Certainly, the buyer did something wrong by reselling the sick snake. But two wrongs do not make a right, and they sure don't let this seller off the hook.

 

[Katie.Shinkle]

All right now, you have not come up with anything that definitively says that this buyer KNEW he was getting a sick snake. I say it is simply your continuing rhetoric to escape liability. I say the buyer did not know he was getting a sick snake until he opened the bag with the three snakes and saw snot.

Certainly, the buyer did something wrong by reselling the sick snake. But two wrongs do not make a right, and they sure don't let this seller off the hook.

Agreed. Kevin, we still need proof from you. Just because Nick has his issues, doesn't mean you are completely off the hook.