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Bad Guy DEAD SNAKES from Kevin South of The Constrictors Labrynth

Devon Hodgins said:
First off, he didn't come here to get advice. He came here to voice his dealings with Kevin South. That is the point of the Boi. However, you can't just come here and sling mud at someone and not be asked for proof. That is just crazy.

Most if not all of what he said is going to be question because of his habitual lying. He brought all of his accusations here and tried to smear Kevin's name with mud. All of this without one ounce of proof and just as much truth.

I am not saying Kevin should not be "grilled" here as well. However he has handled this matter much more professionally and truthfully.

I hope that cleared some of the issues up.
Click to expand...

Ok so he wanted to voice a problem he had with a supplier. BFD, he has a right to do so. You or anyone else in here are not a jury and he is not on trial. Yes hes had bad dealings in the past but this one is not his fault (completely) should he have waited to make the sell? Yes. Should he know proper care and dealings with snakes, or any animal for that matter? Yes. But who are you or anyone else to criticise him in any way? The only people that should be criticising or demeaning to this man in any way are the people he sold an ill snake to, not you or anybody. Like i stated before im not taking sides im just saying relax and stop scrutinising this man every freakin word
 
reptiguy909 said:
Ok so he wanted to voice a problem he had with a supplier. BFD, he has a right to do so. You or anyone else in here are not a jury and he is not on trial. Yes hes had bad dealings in the past but this one is not his fault (completely) should he have waited to make the sell? Yes. Should he know proper care and dealings with snakes, or any animal for that matter? Yes. But who are you or anyone else to criticise him in any way? The only people that should be criticising or demeaning to this man in any way are the people he sold an ill snake to, not you or anybody. Like i stated before im not taking sides im just saying relax and stop scrutinising this man every freakin word
Click to expand...

This is the BOI, get over it.
 
Randy, this is a PUBLIC forum. I find it odd that you protest people proclaiming themselves to be judge and jury...isn't that what you are doing, also? Who are you to dictate what is or is not pertinent? Why are you trying to exert control over others?

The only victim here is Wendy. Nick and Kevin have both done things which should be considered criminal. I understand, and do not disagree, that you feel the spotlight should steer more towards Kevin now. But, I don't believe that Nick should be allowed to leave the stage. Further, you are certainly not the director of this play.
 
reptiguy909 said:
and i realize if ur gonna post make it intelligent not childish and quit herassing people cuz of mistakes......
Click to expand...

His "mistake" has contaminated someone's collection.

Is not just a mistake to sit there and sell an animal that had been exposed to another animal that was obviously sick.

Nick has made nothing right here nor is he excused because he said he realizes he made a mistake.

He knew it was wrong to sell that animal after it had been exposed to the other.

He knew there was a chance it was sick as well.

Calling someone out on their lies and lack of ethics is not harassment. Harassment implies berating without provocation. This is not the case.

He brought this to the BOI. He aired out his and Kevin's dirty laundry, now he needs to accept the consequences of his actions as well as Kevin's because neither of them is innocent.

Nick should have sent the animals back as soon as he got them or quarantined them, brought them to a vet and euthanized them. Not turn around and flip them to dump them on someone else so he did not have to deal with them anymore.
 
reptiguy909 said:
thank you wierd science...... im not defending anyone but the guy fessed up and said he made mistakes just leave it at that he hasnt INTENTIONALLY hurt anyone..... there were MISTAKES made all around
Click to expand...

Nick did not make a mistake, he purposefully acted. He stated from the beginning that there was something wrong with at least one of the snakes, and that the 3 he originally received were packaged together. He had to have known that there was a chance that something was wrong with all 3. Then he e-mailed Kevin saying he was trying to sell a sick snake. He then proceeded to try to shake Kevin down for more free snakes, using an (at the time) unfounded IBD accusation as blackmail. Unfortunately for all parties involved, IBD ended up being the result. These were not mistakes made by Nick, these were purposeful actions.

And this situation can effect anybody, as Nick has admitted to having nearly 300 snakes brought into his home in the past year(I'm assuming many were sent right back out). Anyone who has purchased from him could have received greatly damaged goods that compromised collections and breeding projects they have spent years working on. To simply write this off as "people make mistakes, get over it and mind your own business" is at best ignorance of an extreme level.
 
laterob said:
Randy, this is a PUBLIC forum. I find it odd that you protest people proclaiming themselves to be judge and jury...isn't that what you are doing, also? Who are you to dictate what is or is not pertinent? Why are you trying to exert control over others?

The only victim here is Wendy. Nick and Kevin have both done things which should be considered criminal. I understand, and do not disagree, that you feel the spotlight should steer more towards Kevin now. But, I don't believe that Nick should be allowed to leave the stage. Further, you are certainly not the director of this play.
Click to expand...

and yet again i will say im not taking sides at all or tryin to dictate wat ppl should or shouldnt feel all im sayin is both r at fault not just 1 guy simple as that take it as u will, all of u guys do..... Wendy is the true victim i fully agree but there r ppl in here tryin to make it seem that kevin is the victim..... isnt he who distributed the ill reptiles in the first place? and this is wat i mean about things being said in here and pulled apart, scrutinized and made into something its not take time to actually read wats said
 
and further more neither one of them should get away with anything but how is it that the person comin out and telling the truth (not to down play the severity) how does he become the one chastised and not the person he came to speak out against? that just doesnt make sense to me
 
reptiguy909 said:
and further more neither one of them should get away with anything but how is it that the person comin out and telling the truth (not to down play the severity) how does he become the one chastised and not the person he came to speak out against? that just doesnt make sense to me
Click to expand...

Because he was in the wrong as well. Just because you blow the whistle on someone does not make you immune to all the crap you did that was wrong as well.

Like I said, he has to be able to take the consequences.
 
ShadowAceD said:
Because he was in the wrong as well. Just because you blow the whistle on someone does not make you immune to all the crap you did that was wrong as well.

Like I said, he has to be able to take the consequences.
Click to expand...

and like i said i agree but at the same time he shouldnt be the only one catchin flack. him blowing the whistle dont make him immune at all but theres no reason hes bein condemned and not the other party. thats my pov thats it
 
Kevin South hasn't seen this thread, or logged on here, in a week. Nick was here yesterday. Kevin will have PLENTY to answer for, if and when he chooses to return and address this. His absence speaks volumes.

Also, Nick didn't come in here with a stellar rep (check out other BOI posts) and he repeatedly ducked/dodged/weaved questions that were asked of him.

Lots of BOI posts backfire on the OP. I don't think this one did, as the title says it all. Anyone looking to purchase from Kevin, who has the sense to read this thread, will likely run the other way. Me, personally, wouldn't buy a roll of paper towels from Nick, either. BOI 2, Nick and Kevin 0. Good game.
 
I really didn't want to say anything in this thread as I feel that Nick has had more than enough chances as it is and I don't think anything he says or does can be trusted. However when gibberish like this is stated I feel the need to respond.

reptiguy909 said:
its not that im ok with it its the fact that this guy came to ask advice not to have ppl breathe down his neck and tear apart every single word he says. is anyone here that continues to badger this guy, affected in any way by wat has transpired? im guessing not since nobody has said anythin............. regardless of whether he mixed his words up, didnt explain correctly, or lied wat is it to ANY of u? and how is it that hes the one being scrutinized? y not look at the guy that sold him the bad snakes in the first place? ya he made stupid decisions but so did the supplier so look at both sides before castings judgement or stones for that matter. not takin sides just sayin chill out
Click to expand...

Ok so he wanted to voice a problem he had with a supplier. BFD, he has a right to do so. You or anyone else in here are not a jury and he is not on trial. Yes hes had bad dealings in the past but this one is not his fault (completely) should he have waited to make the sell? Yes. Should he know proper care and dealings with snakes, or any animal for that matter? Yes. But who are you or anyone else to criticise him in any way? The only people that should be criticising or demeaning to this man in any way are the people he sold an ill snake to, not you or anybody. Like i stated before im not taking sides im just saying relax and stop scrutinising this man every freakin word
Click to expand...

Let's start from the top. When you accuse someone of bad business you better be prepared to support your claim and not parrot Nick's favorite line..."why would I lie?" as if that is some sort of proof. Now when the person you are accusing shows, in Nick's own words, that he was trying to sell a sick snake unless it died, you can't just pretend like that doesn't matter. That's like saying someone punched you, so then you punched someone else but it doesn't matter because someone punched you first. Sorry it doesn't work that way, you don't get to escape responsibility for doing something wrong, just because someone else did you wrong first.

Are you really asking how people in this thread are affected by what Nick has done? Nick has clearly shown he has 0 ethics when it comes to the reptile industry, multiple times and it has now been shown that his collection has possibly been exposed to IBD. Therefor everyone who could potentially receive an IBD infected animal from Nick, or someone Nick has sold, or will sell to has every right to know how Nick does business. Based on Nick's actions and continual lies I have no doubt he will resume "business as usual" once pressure on him fades over the next few months.

I don't think anyone is letting Kevin slide on this, he really needs to explain what he'll be doing now that IBD has been confirmed. Since he has been notified of the diagnosis now I would hope his response comes soon. Also I think Kevin's breeder friend needs to be named at this point so people will be able to make informed decisions on him as well.

Now I just want to mention one more thing, everyone keeps mentioning how one snake had "snot" coming from it's nose when Nick received it, however from what I understand Nick never said a thing about that until after one of the snakes died and had begun trying to blackmail Kevin by threatening to yell IBD. Now this is the only "proof" i could find regarding this from either party, first is Nick after receiving the snakes:

Now, as you will see. He does express his concern over the size of the Het. But at no time states anything about the way they were shipped or any drainage from any boa.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Message about: 08 Female READY TO BREED NEXT SEASON
From: Nicholas Giavasis <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:29 pm
To: [email protected]

Kev, you have been professional, understanding, considerate, and very helpful. Hear me, we will do more business Bud!
Thanks-
Nick
Click to expand...

Then after the second snake dying he mentions sinus issues:

Subject: another one, dead
From: Nicholas Giavasis <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, May 09, 2011 8:30 pm
To: [email protected]

OK, Super, dead. necropsy this time.
Funny thing is, the pair you sent to me solo, the pos Jungles, only total healthy and normal of the group. I might be owning a pair of $700-ish pair of pos Jungle, if I were to consider 2 of the 3 are now dead. Kevin, I'm not a rookie, right. I'm in the Denver Reptile Expo, good friends with the organizer.......so please know that I am educated (taught science in fact) as are the people I deal with, professional as well, of course.
Now, you knew the het Sharp was sick with sinus, yet you stuffed all 3 snakes into only one bag. So they were all in physical contact with one another, instead of using maybe 3 bags? I'm just saying, we can say, in an educated fashion, that there was a chance that they could have passed something, since they were in the 'same' bag. Anyway, the pos Super Hypo, he was cool looking, but never ate, and is now dead. We're bummed. This is not fair, and not too sure if we're willing to be as understanding after this illness/death. I'm just hoping that you are willing to meet me on this, because that snake, like the het sharp, they NEVER ate, not even once! Come one Man, come on....please help a guy out. I want to be civil, truly I do, but I cannot stand by, with snakes that never ate, and died. I own dozens of snakes, and I have never lost a snake under my roof, and now 2, both from the same selling, and neither ever ate a meal!? Come on Man, please, tell me you can at least see a little bit of my point....they never ate, not once. Bro, I have fed many-a difficult snake, but none of mine have ever starved to death. You sent me thin snakes, you know it, you called them "light", the vet has called them "next to death", oh, wait, "dead".
You going to help me out, somehow, someway? Need to know Bud, please.
In fact, can we speak to one another, please. I feel there has to be a middle ground which will meet our expectations. I just cannot and will not see allowing myself to accept having two snakes die, which I thought where from a reputable breeder. Talk to me man, or give me a call please, 303-999-0815
Thanks~
Nick
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Now if somewhere along the lines there was proof otherwise, please correct me but to me this is just more proof that you can't believe anything Nick says or does. If I hear 1 more time about how Nick is a good family man and is doing this all with his daughters I may vomit. As has been said before, I feel bad for your poor daughters if lying and unethical behavior is all you will continue to teach them.
 
and i agree i know nick isnt clean and i would never deal with either of them its just wrong for ppl to put ALL the blame on 1 person in a situation like this....... did nick avoid anything incriminating to his character yes he did quite a bit i get that
 
reptiguy909 said:
and further more neither one of them should get away with anything but how is it that the person comin out and telling the truth (not to down play the severity) how does he become the one chastised and not the person he came to speak out against? that just doesnt make sense to me
Click to expand...

How is Nick coming out and telling the truth? He has been shown lying multiple times in this thread, not to mention all his other threads. If you're basing him telling the "truth" on IBD being confirmed then I'm sorry but that's nonsense. He used that to blackmail Kevin and through blind luck ended up being correct, that's not telling the truth. The only thing I can see that he has been truthful about in this whole mess was that he had one snake that he sold to someone else and then the snake died.

I completely agree that Kevin needs to be held accountable and I hope everyone will be just be just as hard on him as they were on Nick, if he doesn't take responsibility for his actions. If Nick had told the whole truth from the beginning and taken responsibility I bet people would have been nicer and even been helpful in dealing with the IBD issue, but he chose to be dishonest constantly, so I feel no sympathy for him in any way.
 
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