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Bad Guy Dealing with Captive Bred Excellence left a bad taste in my mouth...

Post #31 confirms where she put the first mojave het part. I have had to read this thread about 3 times to figure out the chain of events and still have a few questions, but I do not wish to "mis direct". A lot of stuff just does not fit on either end, but I still agree the op got the short end on this deal. I am GUESSING though, that Tad just read that you were potentially interested in the mojave pair, but wanted to proceed with the hets and he never saw the comment with payment. I know that when I receive notification of payment, I only see comments if I scroll all the way to the bottom and not on my paypal page unless I visit that transaction ' s file specifically. That said, it was foolish for the seller to not make extra sure of the deal.
 

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thehappypet said:
The pair I was looking at was also het pied. Just add in a single gene to the male.
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thehappypet said:
Normal het pieds go for no more then $25 as hatchlings.
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Yes, but you did not make that clear in your initial message. If you contacted me and just said het pair, I would assume you meant non visual normals. Sure maybe you offered twice the asking price, but it was just that, YOUR offer and he took it. So if I sell any het pieds there's a magical control system that will automatically set my asking price to below $25? None of this justifies Tad ' s actions or oversight in my eyes though.
 
I was always inquiring about the mojave het pied male, and the normal het pied female. I already have a proven pair of 2009/2011 normal het pieds. I can get my own hatchling normals. :p I wanted the mojave gene to add to the mix! That was quickly cleared up when Sarah called him and in my subsequent messages with him.

If my motives were simply to capitalize on a mistake where I received the wrong pair then I would have simply kept the snakes.
 
In the future I will not be making any phone calls and will be 100% clear about which animals I am looking at. Lesson learned, however it is not my job to police the way a seller runs their business if they can't keep track of their animals either...I was not, at the time, aware of any other het pieds as I had only seen his ad on an online reptile group.
Most of the time I try and support local breeders in Las Vegas or the bay.
 
thehappypet said:
I was always inquiring about the mojave het pied male, and the normal het pied female. I already have a proven pair of 2009/2011 normal het pieds. I can get my own hatchling normals. :p I wanted the mojave gene to add to the mix! That was quickly cleared up when Sarah called him and in my subsequent messages with him.

If my motives were simply to capitalize on a mistake where I received the wrong pair then I would have simply kept the snakes.
Click to expand...
Why buy another normal het female then? I would hope after you proved out your proven hets awhile you would have at least one hold back female pied. No, I do not think you attempted any foul play. I am simply saying that you could have very well come off as unclear...you have to me and a few others in this thread a lone.
 
I'm happy to talk about my breeding plans any time, I spend a lot of time thinking about possible pairings.

I know you have been following this entire conversation so I'm going to assume you know who I am referring to if I say the proven pair or other shorthand. Remember I am doing this all from my teeny tiny phone.

So the proven pair has only been proven as of last season. Only one pied was produced and is owned by someone else. Any normals produced are only 66% possible hets. So adding another 100% het girl of unrelated blood is never a bad thing. And being that they sell for only around $25 I was looking at the deal as more of a "mojave male for sale", the girl was just a bonus. With her genes that gives me unrelated blood to outcross with my current male if I kept her to breed her at all. She was under consideration as a possible Christmas gift to a friend. The male could have paired with my crystal girl to make mojave 33% het, special 33% het, crystals 33% het, And super mojaves 33% het. Not bad. And I could pair him with both het girls, maybe a pied girl if I had produced one and raised her to breeding weight by that point, to make 33% hets, actual pieds, mojave 33% hets, and my goal of mojave pieds. Easier to hit a 1 in 8 chance with multiple girls.

I'm assuming you are able to follow that?
 
thehappypet said:
I'm happy to talk about my breeding plans any time, I spend a lot of time thinking about possible pairings.

I know you have been following this entire conversation so I'm going to assume you know who I am referring to if I say the proven pair or other shorthand. Remember I am doing this all from my teeny tiny phone.

So the proven pair has only been proven as of last season. Only one pied was produced and is owned by someone else. Any normals produced are only 66% possible hets. So adding another 100% het girl of unrelated blood is never a bad thing. And being that they sell for only around $25 I was looking at the deal as more of a "mojave male for sale", the girl was just a bonus. With her genes that gives me unrelated blood to outcross with my current male if I kept her to breed her at all. She was under consideration as a possible Christmas gift to a friend. The male could have paired with my crystal girl to make mojave 33% het, special 33% het, crystals 33% het, And super mojaves 33% het. Not bad. And I could pair him with both het girls, maybe a pied girl if I had produced one and raised her to breeding weight by that point, to make 33% hets, actual pieds, mojave 33% hets, and my goal of mojave pieds. Easier to hit a 1 in 8 chance with multiple girls.

I'm assuming you are able to follow that?
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand that; however, it still makes little sense to be that deep in a pied project and not have at least one visual on hand. Granted that could just be me. Also, if the mojave is 100% het, any non visual offspring he produces is 50% probable het or great depending on if the female was het or visual.
 
I guess I could just call them by their names too now that I think about it. Ms. Cleo, Chrome, and Sauron. And then the new pair were going to be named D20 and undecided. :3
 
Oh right, 66% not 33%. And by the time D20 and undecided were of breeding size I could very well have visual pieds but it doesn't mean they would yet be ready to breed. I don't want my females laying eggs until they are definitely ready. At least 3 if not 4 years. Assuming I keep the visuals for breeding. I do educational seminars too and wouldn't breed my seminar animals.
 
thehappypet said:
I guess I could just call them by their names too now that I think about it. Ms. Cleo, Chrome, and Sauron. And then the new pair were going to be named D20 and undecided. :3
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Sure just like how when I post about my bel possible pewter Blitz, Liz my pinstripe, Fortuna one of my emeralds, Amataratsu my jungle carpet, Ghastly by dinker ghost, etc... what I call them means little, what they are means a lot more...same as me or you.
 
thehappypet said:
Oh right, 66% not 33%. And by the time D20 and undecided were of breeding size I could very well have visual pieds but it doesn't mean they would yet be ready to breed. I don't want my females laying eggs until they are definitely ready. At least 3 if not 4 years. Assuming I keep the visuals for breeding. I do educational seminars too and wouldn't breed my seminar animals.
Click to expand...
None of my female balls are bred before 4 years of age either...regardless I understand what you're saying. Not the best way to play a numbers game, but it's not my project. Good luck.
 
It's more of a casual interest for me, not necessarily a "project". Healthy critters is my first priority always. If I don't get a visual from this next clutch and the following year give Chrome and Sauron a season off it could be 3 years before I see my first visual and I'm okay with that. :)
 
EmeraldBoid said:
I am GUESSING though, that Tad just read that you were potentially interested in the mojave pair, but wanted to proceed with the hets and he never saw the comment with payment. I know that when I receive notification of payment, I only see comments if I scroll all the way to the bottom and not on my paypal page unless I visit that transaction ' s file specifically. That said, it was foolish for the seller to not make extra sure of the deal.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make sense to me.

The problem with that is he handed over the correct snakes she asked for. So apparently he knew what she wanted and asked for. Correct?

According to all there was no debate when Sarah went to pick up the snakes. Tad showed Sarah the correct snakes Elisa thought she was buying. Gave her the paperwork. So apparently he knew what he was selling and didn't have to scroll down the PayPal comments and miss the description of the animals. He had them ready to go when she came to pick them up.



Please keep the topic to discussing the transaction. Project discussion should be taken to the appropriate forum or private messages.
 
Dennis Hultman said:
That doesn't make sense to me.

The problem with that is he handed over the correct snakes she asked for. So apparently he knew what she wanted and asked for. Correct?

According to all there was no debate when Sarah went to pick up the snakes. Tad showed Sarah the correct snakes Elisa thought she was buying. Gave her the paperwork. So apparently he knew what he was selling and didn't have to scroll down the PayPal comments and miss the description of the animals. He had them ready to go when she came to pick them up.



Please keep the topic to discussing the transaction. Project discussion should be taken to the appropriate forum or private messages.
Click to expand...



Tad even stated in his defense that the only part that he missed was the amount sent in Paypal, not the animals being purchased or description. So with all the talk about other animals in the emails or phone conversations seems to be a mute point. He didn't need to scroll down to look at comments in paypal to see the amount sent for the animals.
 
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