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Dealing with minors

hhmoore

hhmoore

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Just curious how everybody proceeds once they have been given reason to believe that a potential customer is under the age of 18. I have had several inquiries over the past few months, and a common note was that they would be having somebody else send payment. Usually payment never arrived, but it brought to mind a question. If a 17 yo is not living at home, I can't very well insist on speaking to the parents for confirmation...but I also have no way of knowing that the story is true. Business was simpler in the old days, lol
 
One thing that I always do in the 3rd party payment scenario is insist on communication with the person that makes payment...including an email from the paypal account address (which I keep in that customers file). While a couple of customers seemed a bit put out by this, the people making the payments were all very understanding and appreciative.
 
I bought a snake from a minor, I asked to talk via email with his mom, and I sent payment to her.
The deal went smoothly and I am happy; the minor understood completely when I said that the transaction itself would have to be completed by his parent.
 
I don't do transactions with minors at all. It has to be 18 or over. Minors can not be held to any contract, terms of service, agreements etc. Also, I would hate to sell a reptile to a minor when the parents have no knowledge of the situation. Just asking for problems when Mom finds that critter in their child's bedroom. I am more than happy to deal with their parents or legal guardian though.
 
I don't deal with minors at all. If a teenager wants to buy a snake I tell him his parent will have to call me on the phone to discuss it. I don't want the kid posing as his parent in an email, and I sure don't want an irate unsuspecting mother calling me because I sent her kid a snake.
 
I deal with minors of all ages - all of the time. And I make it a point to deal with the minor/child through all aspects of the transaction - THEN follow up with speaking to a parent.
There are usually husbandry and other questions that are covered with the initial phone call that ANY prospective customer makes, whether they are a minor or not. Why in the world would you make an age requirement on the customer service that you should offer to everyone?
I go through the whole thing - answering their questions, getting names, address, phone number and all that. Once I am sure that the minor/child is finished with their questions and happy - Ill politely ask to speak with a parent for payment arrangements.
Many times I find that the parent is standing right there next to the minor/child and encouraging them to ask their questions and reserve the animal. The minor/child hands the phone to their parent with a delighted smile - the parent takes the phone with an indulgent smile and we are all off to a great start. The only thing I really need from the parent is confirmation of purchase (animal chosen and the total $), delivery address and their payment information.
If the parent is not available at the moment, I will hold the animal and call them back later that evening. If I do not receive a parental confirmation in the next day or so, the animal then becomes available again.
Please note : The actual purchase is in the parents name and the animal is shipped to the minor/child, but c/o the parent.

V.

As a side note from a parent, I always appreciate someone taking the time to treat my children with the same respect and attention that they would give an adult... they may be minors, but they are also young adults (teenagers) who are learning to make good decisions and conduct themselves in 'grown-up' situations. Any helping hands are more than welcome. :)
 
Just in case my post was poorly worded, I didn't mean that I refuse to even talk to minors. When I said I don't deal with them at all I meant it as in I do not do business with minors at all.
If a minor, with parental approval and involvement, is going to be the primary owner of an animal, sure I go over care related questions and such, but the parent must make the purchase and depending on the age of the child will also have to go over care issues.

Occasionally I will admit that I refuse to deal with some minors on any level. I can't help it, but there is a segment of the younger generation who are unable to correctly spell any word in excess of 5 letters and are incapable of putting together complete sentences that do not include childish abbreviations and such.
I can't even stand to work through an email like that and usually don't even read it to the end. In those cases I am of the opinion that the time they would be spending with their new snake would be better spent studying to try to attain something that at least resembles coherent communication.

I have had the pleasure of communicating with two outstanding young people in my years though. It is sad that the ones I consider outstanding only number two and that they stand out so prominately in comparison to all the other kids I've corresponded with.
Both these boys were 13 years old and I was utterly amazed by their communication skills and vocabulary.
I nearly just sold one of them a ball python without thinking about it until he mentioned he was 13. I told his mom on the phone that I was greatly impressed with her son's maturity.
The other wasn't a potential customer but was interested in talking about a specific topic. I fully expect that young man to become an exceptional herpetologist in the field one day.
 
What Clay said. I just require parental involvement.
 
Dachiu said:
There are usually husbandry and other questions that are covered with the initial phone call that ANY prospective customer makes, whether they are a minor or not. Why in the world would you make an age requirement on the customer service that you should offer to everyone? :)
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone was advocating poor (or no ) customer service, just because someone is a minor. I, and I think most of us, are more than happy to deal with minors, in many aspects of this hobby. The OP was talking about payment/business aspects, and as Shrap noted, a minor can't enter into any kind of contract, so it's just good business, and common sense to make sure that the parent knows what is going on, and also actually handles the "business" part of the deal. Heck I know when I was a youngster, the stuff hit the fan every time one of the parents found a new animal "hidden" in my room. Luckily it was stuff I caught, so no one else got in "trouble", just me :)
 
Ditto here.

Clay Davenport said:
Just in case my post was poorly worded, I didn't mean that I refuse to even talk to minors. When I said I don't deal with them at all I meant it as in I do not do business with minors at all.
If a minor, with parental approval and involvement, is going to be the primary owner of an animal, sure I go over care related questions and such, but the parent must make the purchase and depending on the age of the child will also have to go over care issues.

Occasionally I will admit that I refuse to deal with some minors on any level. I can't help it, but there is a segment of the younger generation who are unable to correctly spell any word in excess of 5 letters and are incapable of putting together complete sentences that do not include childish abbreviations and such.
I can't even stand to work through an email like that and usually don't even read it to the end. In those cases I am of the opinion that the time they would be spending with their new snake would be better spent studying to try to attain something that at least resembles coherent communication.

I have had the pleasure of communicating with two outstanding young people in my years though. It is sad that the ones I consider outstanding only number two and that they stand out so prominately in comparison to all the other kids I've corresponded with.
Both these boys were 13 years old and I was utterly amazed by their communication skills and vocabulary.
I nearly just sold one of them a ball python without thinking about it until he mentioned he was 13. I told his mom on the phone that I was greatly impressed with her son's maturity.
The other wasn't a potential customer but was interested in talking about a specific topic. I fully expect that young man to become an exceptional herpetologist in the field one day.
Click to expand...
 
reptilebreeder said:
The OP was talking about payment/business aspects, and as Shrap noted, a minor can't enter into any kind of contract, so it's just good business, and common sense to make sure that the parent knows what is going on
Click to expand...
Thanks, John.
Again, what I was getting at is how you proceed when you first become suspicious that the person you are dealing with is a minor - it can sometimes be difficult to tell when communicating via email. Clearly, once it is established that one is dealing with somebody under the age of 18, certain precautions must be taken...even if legality of the "contract" is not the concern. How do we even know, most of the time? I mean, I do not habitually ask the age of potential customers (has it come to that?). And how can we be sure, anyways, if the person states they are 18 or 19? - phone conversation can help, but I don't make that a regular part of my business, if I can avoid it.
 
Im sorry Clay, I misinterpreted the "at all" in your response. :-( And I was a bit let down by my interpretation - we recently had someone just blow off my son.

If anyone is suspicious that someone may be a minor - take into consideration the payment method. Paypal accounts are not available to minors (their TOS states) and if a minor opens an account, they are breaking the agreement. Credit cards are also not issued to minors. If either of these payment methods are used by the customer and the account is in their name - you should be good.
If a check is sent in the customers name, you should also be ok...
$ orders are a different story. They are available to anyone who is willing to stand in line. I try to discourage $orders - If someone is able to send a $order, they should be able to send a check.
 
Credit cards are not issued to

minors ? yeah right ! I had a credit card issued to my DOG ! Anyone else ever had this happen / LOL ! Not saying one could " legalize " the opening of the account but never the less it came in with my dog name on it.
 
A credit card was sent in my 3 yr old daughter's name a few times. One even came the month after she was born. Parents can also have a card added to their accounts in their child's name. If you even open a bank account nowadays, you get a Visa/Mastercard Debit card, so I'd be careful of that.
 
You have got to be kidding! I opened a bank account for my son - they would only allow a savings account - no checking - and no ATM card til he is 18. Not even with my name on the account also... rules are that the "primary" must be of legal/binding age - at least where I bank.

I DO receive the junk mail occasionally in one of the kids names with a lame credit card in it - but you still have to fill out the application and return it. The application still requires a signature and S.S.# to activate the account.

I didnt consider the pre-paid Visa/MC that you can pick up in any convenience store though... hmm....

V.
 
If anyone is suspicious that someone may be a minor - take into consideration the payment method. Paypal accounts are not available to minors (their TOS states) and if a minor opens an account, they are breaking the agreement. Credit cards are also not issued to minors. If either of these payment methods are used by the customer and the account is in their name - you should be good.
If a check is sent in the customers name, you should also be ok...
$ orders are a different story. They are available to anyone who is willing to stand in line. I try to discourage $orders - If someone is able to send a $order, they should be able to send a check.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid you're giving too much credit to some teenagers. If a kid wants a paypal account, a TOS violation isn't a deterrant. It's like the disclaimer on porn sites, "if you are under 18 years of age leave now".
Credit cards are a parents wallet away. So is a checkbook. While most kids wouldn't risk stealing a parents credit card, some would and do for various things. When an adult uses a credit card on a constant basis, you'd be surprised at how many don't even look over the bill closely.
I'm just saying that payment method isn't a guarantee of the age of the purchaser.
 
Huh. Back when I was a minor, if I bought online I had mom call to make the order. I figured it'd be easier. If I went down to the breeder (Pro Exotics, they had a retail store when I was a kid in colorado) mom came with me.
I'm not sure how you'd screen with the prepaid Visa/MC stuff. That is sort of worrying to me. I've got 0 problem selling most snakes to children, but when I breed my retics I don't want to sell them to minors, period. And when I do sell other snakes, I do want to make sure the parents are OK with it.
 
This is partially a reason for my not making any transactions online except for supplies and feeders; I don't want to have to deal with any freak outs if a seller finds out midway through a transaction that I'm not 18 until November, even though I know I would never spend money I didn't work my butt off to get myself, or buy an animal on impulse. I fully understand people's unwillingness to deal with people under 18 because frankly, my generation isn't known for being especially bright or good at forethought. If something's worth having, in my opinion, it's worth waiting for too.
 
Pepper; nothing to do with your generation, everything to do with legality. If I sell a large snake to a 15 year old, say, without parental knowledge, am I liable for anything if something goes wrong? I don't know, I'm not an attorney, and I don't want to find out. I don't want to deal with a pissed off parent because I sold a kid a cornsnake (or anything else).
 
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