• Posted 12/19/2024.
    =====================

    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Desert Dragons- Bad

"Denisebme wrote:"Look, I don't much like cats, and I own 2 of them. Why? because they were in horrible situations and I took them in. I've purchased sick reptiles from pet stores before because I knew if I left them there, they'd die."

I work in rescue and I have to point out the fact that buying sick animals is not rescueing them, it is telling the pet stores and breeders that people feel sorry for the sick or lame animal and will buy it, so what happens? They have more sick and dying animals. When doing rescue, I never pay for an animal. It is either surrendered or given freely so that the poor thing might have a chance at a healthy life. Your heart is in the right place, but you are doing what most people do, buy a sick animal and the pet stores are just replacing them with more sick animals.

Second Point: I bought a bearded dragon from Gloria and I had her vet checked, she is a very healthy beautifully colored girl. I find it hard to believe that Gloria would not properly care for her animals as this one is perfect. The communication was good and the deal went smoothly. I got a beautiful healthy girl and am happy with her. I myself and having to purchase new cages because I still have a growing surplus of babies left over from this past season. Would you come into my house and condemn me because you don't like the fact that I have 3 females in a 100 gal tank? PLEASSSSSSEEEEE! Give me a break!
 
Iguanalady said:
"Denisebme wrote:"Look, I don't much like cats, and I own 2 of them. Why? because they were in horrible situations and I took them in. I've purchased sick reptiles from pet stores before because I knew if I left them there, they'd die."

I work in rescue and I have to point out the fact that buying sick animals is not rescueing them, it is telling the pet stores and breeders that people feel sorry for the sick or lame animal and will buy it, so what happens? They have more sick and dying animals. When doing rescue, I never pay for an animal. It is either surrendered or given freely so that the poor thing might have a chance at a healthy life. Your heart is in the right place, but you are doing what most people do, buy a sick animal and the pet stores are just replacing them with more sick animals.

Second Point: I bought a bearded dragon from Gloria and I had her vet checked, she is a very healthy beautifully colored girl. I find it hard to believe that Gloria would not properly care for her animals as this one is perfect. The communication was good and the deal went smoothly. I got a beautiful healthy girl and am happy with her. I myself and having to purchase new cages because I still have a growing surplus of babies left over from this past season. Would you come into my house and condemn me because you don't like the fact that I have 3 females in a 100 gal tank? PLEASSSSSSEEEEE! Give me a break!
Click to expand...

I'm glad you had got a healthy beardie, and of course I'm not condemning anyone for being a little overcrowded. If that had been the case, I never would have said anything, and I have said that repeatedly.
So, lets get back to the real points here.
Point one: Maybe I shouldn't have purchased the animal. I didn't go there to "rescue" anything, and I did what I thought was right in that moment. Would I do it again? I'm not going to say no, because I know who I am.
Second point: While I'm sure that you see this as an issue of simple "overcrowding", housing 5 or 6 females, some very small, with males is not. Housing adult dragons, a couple of them, with a big iguana, is also not something that is an "overcrowding" issue. These are husbandry issues.

My last point: I came here with a very real concern, and because I believe that people are big enough to make up their own minds. I reported what I saw and what my experience was. I didn't jump up and down and make any allegations that were untrue, and since the breeder and her friend have freely admitted that there were housing issues, while playing down just how big the housing issues were, it isn't rocket science to figure out that my concerns were well justified.
I'll tell you something else. I was warned repeatedly before I posted this issue to the BOI that it probably wasn't a good idea because instead of focusing on the issues, I would be attacked for posting. I did it anyway, after a lot of thought and hesitation, because it was the RIGHT thing to do. I'm not sure I'd do it again, because it seems like people are more than happy to attack the messenger instead of realizing that improper husbandry is a real concern.
 
See, I have done the same thing only to find out that the people who backed me up on a thread never followed through with proof. Unless you have proof, I.E. photos, e-mails and documentation, this is simply an he said, she said thread. How do we know that you just didn't have a problem with this person and decided to wreck her reputation? Not saying that you are a liar, but where's your proof? What you saw isn't enough on the BOI, just as I found out myself. I save all e-mails when I do a deal, all photos and any other documentation I accumulate during any deal, good or bad. When I come here from now on, it will be a solid case. That is not the situation here. This IS a he said she said thread.
 
Iguanalady said:
See, I have done the same thing only to find out that the people who backed me up on a thread never followed through with proof. Unless you have proof, I.E. photos, e-mails and documentation, this is simply an he said, she said thread. How do we know that you just didn't have a problem with this person and decided to wreck her reputation? Not saying that you are a liar, but where's your proof? What you saw isn't enough on the BOI, just as I found out myself. I save all e-mails when I do a deal, all photos and any other documentation I accumulate during any deal, good or bad. When I come here from now on, it will be a solid case. That is not the situation here. This IS a he said she said thread.
Click to expand...

No, this is absolutely not a "he said/she said" situation. I brought a concern to the BOI, one that the breeder herself has not denied was absolutely 100% the case when I saw her set-up.
How do you know I don't have a problem with Gloria personally? I don't even know Gloria, I have never engaged in any negative behavior on this or any forum, and my history on Fauna proves that absolutely.
I came her to post a very real concern to the BOI. I have no idea what your stake in this is, but I simply don't have one at all. I'm not in the habit of carrying camera's into peoples homes on the off chance that they might have serious husbandry issues, nor is there any way to document it unless you do so.
Now, I know what I saw, and no one has even attempted to contradict what I saw. They completely glossed over the fact that they were housing beardies with an Iguana . They have made this out to be an overcrowding issue. My opinion is that this is simply not the case. It was not a case of 2 or 3 females housed together, it was 5 or 6 females housed with males in every adult cage I saw.
Now, I've already said that I'm happy for you that you got a healthy baby. That said, a healthy baby does not always indicate good husbandry, nor do you have any way of knowing the breeding conditions of an animal that is shipped to you. I saw the breeding conditions.
 
I personally feel that Denise did nothing wrong by posting this here on the BOI. Her post is simply a warning to others that she feels that the husbandry practices of this breeder are sub par, IN HER OPINION. To me she really didn't say anything less or anything more. She provided her opinion after doing business with Gloria and she's entitles to do that. Other members have come forward and offered their opinions. We now have differing opinions on the same breeder and readers can take stock in whatever one they want. Not everyone is going to agree with someone else's husbandry techniques.

I don't think Denise was trying to ruin Gloria's reputation and I don't feel she made this post to "take out" her competition. All I see is a warning for others to take caution when dealing with this breeder and why.......

Now a lot of things could have changed in the past 7 months. By some of the other posts being made it seems that that is the case. Now that those changes are made and conditions have apparently improved let's let things run their course and let Gloria's dragons and future customers speak themselves. If her reputation is going to take a hit it will happen because things still aren't right with her operation. If nothing bad is posted then we can all walk away knowing that things have improved and that the situation described by Denise was a one time thing.
 
I have nothing at stake here with Gloria. I did business with her and found her very professional. I find it hard to believe that she would be so careless. How do you know those were males in with the females? Did you lift their tails to find out? Were the beards black and bobbing? I agree with Sunny, that you have a right to voice your concerns, but the experience I had with Gloria was excellent and I don't buy your story. I have a right to my opinion as you do. I have been reamed because I couldn't produce proof on a BOI inquiry. That is all I am asking for is proof. What you say you saw doesn't hold water. I could say I went to your house and didn't agree with your husbandry skills then come here and post how bad things were, then someone would turn around and ask me the same question. Where's your proof.....he said, she said!
 
In MHO, unless you can accurately sex the dragons being housed together, it is extremely difficult to make any assumptions on groupings in an enclosure, as well as breeding age or size. We do not place more than a 1:2 group together at any time. Please take note that we are hobby breeders and this how we chose to group. It is also very possible have it appear that one may be much younger/ smaller than the others simply by the genetics they carry. We have a 24" blood/ G.G. male who was currently housed with a 21" red/ gold female and a 19 1/2" red/ hypo female. He absolutely dwarfed them both but everything was fine to them. I removed both females to another set-up and added a separate female who is 18" and she looks small.All of them are over 18 months old and very healthy and show no signs or ill-effects. What I'm trying to say is, it is unfair to make accusations or statements unless you have all the facts in regards to another persons breeding/ housing or husbandry standards. I will admit that I may skip a day with cleaning or bath time but that may be due to my work schedule and don't feel it adversely effects our dragons. If anyone with more than 1 pair of dragons breeding has trouble with the understanding it can and usually does get quite crowded in the dragons room in a hurry. We currently have 4 tanks set up with babies- 16 4 weeks old in 2 and 18 3days old in the other 2. On top of those, we have 20 more expected in 2 weeks and 20 more at thanksgiving. So anyone want to talk about running out of space! It's just one of those things that can happen and very quickly at that. I have nothing to gain or lose by posting- just my 2 cents.
________________________

Doug Martin
DandD Dragons
 
Iguanalady said:
I have nothing at stake here with Gloria. I did business with her and found her very professional. I find it hard to believe that she would be so careless. How do you know those were males in with the females? Did you lift their tails to find out? Were the beards black and bobbing? I agree with Sunny, that you have a right to voice your concerns, but the experience I had with Gloria was excellent and I don't buy your story. I have a right to my opinion as you do. I have been reamed because I couldn't produce proof on a BOI inquiry. That is all I am asking for is proof. What you say you saw doesn't hold water. I could say I went to your house and didn't agree with your husbandry skills then come here and post how bad things were, then someone would turn around and ask me the same question. Where's your proof.....he said, she said!
Click to expand...

I know she had males in with females because she TOLD me she had males in with females and she pointed the males out to me.
This whole thing has become ridiculous. I'm not here trying to sell my opinion or anything else, I am simply stating what I saw.
Proof is right in the thread since Desert Dragons and her business have both admitted freely that there was an issue.
Breeders and hobbyists have been in my home and I've been in the homes of other breeders and hobbyists, and the ONLY reason I posted anything at all is because it was an is a disturbing situation. You have a right to your opinions, but unless you've seen for yourself what was going on, your opinion is just that.
Now, you can come in here and imply anything you like about my honesty and integrity, I could care less. I came here to post what I saw, and that's exactly what I did.
 
Rebel Dragons said:
I personally feel that Denise did nothing wrong by posting this here on the BOI. Her post is simply a warning to others that she feels that the husbandry practices of this breeder are sub par, IN HER OPINION. To me she really didn't say anything less or anything more. She provided her opinion after doing business with Gloria and she's entitles to do that. Other members have come forward and offered their opinions. We now have differing opinions on the same breeder and readers can take stock in whatever one they want. Not everyone is going to agree with someone else's husbandry techniques.

I don't think Denise was trying to ruin Gloria's reputation and I don't feel she made this post to "take out" her competition. All I see is a warning for others to take caution when dealing with this breeder and why.......

Now a lot of things could have changed in the past 7 months. By some of the other posts being made it seems that that is the case. Now that those changes are made and conditions have apparently improved let's let things run their course and let Gloria's dragons and future customers speak themselves. If her reputation is going to take a hit it will happen because things still aren't right with her operation. If nothing bad is posted then we can all walk away knowing that things have improved and that the situation described by Denise was a one time thing.
Click to expand...

Thank you Mike, I'm glad that there are some people who are seeing this for what it is.
 
Denisebme said:
You have a right to your opinions, but unless you've seen for yourself what was going on, your opinion is just that.
Click to expand...

As is yours! I am not getting into a pissing contest with you about this. I disagree with you and I do not believe you as is my right too. It seems you are trying to convince me to agree with what you SAY you saw, I do not. Let's let it be.
 
Iguanalady said:
As is yours! I am not getting into a pissing contest with you about this. I disagree with you and I do not believe you as is my right too. It seems you are trying to convince me to agree with what you SAY you saw, I do not. Let's let it be.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you asked me questions, I answered them. I find it interesting that you're still questioning my integrity though when both Gloria and her "partner" have already pretty much agreed that I saw what I saw. The only thing that I've said that they've ignored is that they had beardies in with an iguana, and they haven't denied that either, simply refused to respond to it.
Bottom line, I've done a lot of business on fauna, almost 100% of which as the buyer, and I've never had a bad word to say about anyone else I've ever done business with, and they have never had an issue with me. I've never had an issue on the BOI, I've never brought an issue to the BOI before this, and even this time, I hesitated for a while before I brought the issue because I was clearly warned that it could and probably would be turned into a huge drama just for the sake of drama.
 
dandddragons said:
In MHO, unless you can accurately sex the dragons being housed together, it is extremely difficult to make any assumptions on groupings in an enclosure, as well as breeding age or size. We do not place more than a 1:2 group together at any time. Please take note that we are hobby breeders and this how we chose to group. It is also very possible have it appear that one may be much younger/ smaller than the others simply by the genetics they carry. We have a 24" blood/ G.G. male who was currently housed with a 21" red/ gold female and a 19 1/2" red/ hypo female. He absolutely dwarfed them both but everything was fine to them. I removed both females to another set-up and added a separate female who is 18" and she looks small.All of them are over 18 months old and very healthy and show no signs or ill-effects. What I'm trying to say is, it is unfair to make accusations or statements unless you have all the facts in regards to another persons breeding/ housing or husbandry standards. I will admit that I may skip a day with cleaning or bath time but that may be due to my work schedule and don't feel it adversely effects our dragons. If anyone with more than 1 pair of dragons breeding has trouble with the understanding it can and usually does get quite crowded in the dragons room in a hurry. We currently have 4 tanks set up with babies- 16 4 weeks old in 2 and 18 3days old in the other 2. On top of those, we have 20 more expected in 2 weeks and 20 more at thanksgiving. So anyone want to talk about running out of space! It's just one of those things that can happen and very quickly at that. I have nothing to gain or lose by posting- just my 2 cents.
________________________

Doug Martin
DandD Dragons
Click to expand...

I completely understand what you're saying Doug. Believe me, I did not take posting something to the BOI lightly and would not have done it if I felt I didn't have enough information.
I've said repeatedly that I understand temporary overcrowding, particularly with babies. It can happen, and it does not necessary reflect on the breeder.
I will also repeat that I saw her caging situation, and I've been doing this long enough, I know beardies. There are few reputable breeders that don't have age and size guidelines for breeding, and better yet, most people who know beardies can tell simply by looking if a female appears to be to small for breeding.
Look, there are plenty of reasons to be concerned when someone sees something that indicates husbandry issues in breeders. Back Yard Breeders have destroyed many breeds of dog in this country, Farm Breeding has turned the Iguana into an absolute genetic mess, and because of the limited lines of bearded dragon in this country, responsible breeding is the one thing that can keep these beautiful animals healthy and vibrant. I'm not telling people not to buy from Gloria, heck, I'd even be willing to take the hour drive out there if she were to invite me to take the steps to clear this whole thing up if in fact the issues that she had are resolved, as well as taking responsibility for starting a new thread to let the whole community know that her issues are resolved. That is more than fair.
The only thing I am unwilling to do is back down one inch from what I've already stated because it is absolutely what I saw.
 
Denisebme said:
I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you asked me questions, I answered them. I find it interesting that you're still questioning my integrity though when both Gloria and her "partner" have already pretty much agreed that I saw what I saw. The only thing that I've said that they've ignored is that they had beardies in with an iguana, and they haven't denied that either, simply refused to respond to it.
Bottom line, I've done a lot of business on fauna, almost 100% of which as the buyer, and I've never had a bad word to say about anyone else I've ever done business with, and they have never had an issue with me. I've never had an issue on the BOI, I've never brought an issue to the BOI before this, and even this time, I hesitated for a while before I brought the issue because I was clearly warned that it could and probably would be turned into a huge drama just for the sake of drama.
Click to expand...

Funny, I just went back and read Gloria post, the only thing she agreed with you on was an overcrowding issue at that particular time. I completely disagree with the way this is all going. I am sticking to my own experiences with Gloria and I stand by her. I am a hobbiest breeder myself and have been where Gloria was with overcrowding. And since 7 months ago was breeding season, I tend to believe that she had her males with the females for breeding purposes. I breed large dragons 18" and above, but I see nothing wrong with breeding a female over 18 mos and 16-17", that is up to the breeder or individual and the colors they are trying to produce. Do you have measurements and weights of the dragons in question? Did you lift tails to see if what you said were males were males? It is hard to prove anything other then what you thought you saw. There could be many explanations not just what you think you see. You bought a dragon from Gloria, and either bought another one or was going too. Why on earth would you take a dragon from anyone who had questionable husbandry problems? Not to mention pay for it? Then turn around and wait another 7 months before you said anything? This just doesn't make any sense. How are the dragons you got from her? Are they growing? Healthy? Plans on breeding them?
 
Iguanalady said:
Funny, I just went back and read Gloria post, the only thing she agreed with you on was an overcrowding issue at that particular time. I completely disagree with the way this is all going. I am sticking to my own experiences with Gloria and I stand by her. I am a hobbiest breeder myself and have been where Gloria was with overcrowding. And since 7 months ago was breeding season, I tend to believe that she had her males with the females for breeding purposes. I breed large dragons 18" and above, but I see nothing wrong with breeding a female over 18 mos and 16-17", that is up to the breeder or individual and the colors they are trying to produce. Do you have measurements and weights of the dragons in question? Did you lift tails to see if what you said were males were males? It is hard to prove anything other then what you thought you saw. There could be many explanations not just what you think you see. You bought a dragon from Gloria, and either bought another one or was going too. Why on earth would you take a dragon from anyone who had questionable husbandry problems? Not to mention pay for it? Then turn around and wait another 7 months before you said anything? This just doesn't make any sense. How are the dragons you got from her? Are they growing? Healthy? Plans on breeding them?
Click to expand...

Excuse me, I bought one under-sized dragon with a deformed foot that my husband wanted to strangle me for all the way home, and never bought another one or had any intention of buying another one. Why did I buy the one? Because, strangely enough, I just felt awful for the poor thing.
I've taken dragons from other people who could not properly care for them, got them healthy, and gave them away later to adoptive homes that could and would provide the appropriate care. Look, she had more than one dragon there when I took the one with the bad foot, and you know what, it wouldn't have mattered which dragon I took, neither one of them would have ever been bred in my care. Why? Because I care about their genetics, that why.
Looking at this whole thread, its not hard to understand why anyone would hesitate before posting to the BOI, they have to put up with crap like this when they do. Did I lift tails? No.. I took her word for the fact that the dragons she pointed out as male were male, and the ones she told me were female were female. She should know her own dragons, right?
I got one dragon, that dragon was immediately taken to the vet so the foot deformity could be dealt with. I would NEVER breed a dragon that did not grow correctly, and full grown this dragon is now 14" long and 295 grams. I adopted this dragon out in June to a very good home where she will always be a much loved pet. She is fat, healthy and happy now.
I started this thread simply to educate people about what I saw, and let them make an educated decision. You've obviously made yours.
 
Denisebme said:
and full grown this dragon is now 14" long and 295 grams. I adopted this dragon out in June to a very good home where she will always be a much loved pet. She is fat, healthy and happy now.
I started this thread simply to educate people about what I saw, and let them make an educated decision. You've obviously made yours.
Click to expand...

How old was this dragon when you bought it? if it was 6 wks to three mos at the time you bought it, it would be considered a sub adult or older juvie and that weight and length would be a proper size for a dragon that age. I might have missed that point on the age somewhere. I have a very small adult dragon that I got from a friend who had rescued her. She was bred too young and is 256 grams and 9.5" with most of her tail gone. She is an adult over 1.5 years old and will never be bred because of her small size but she has such a good disposition and I am afraid someone will breed her is why she is still with me. Just curious on the age thing.
 
Iguanalady said:
How old was this dragon when you bought it? if it was 6 wks to three mos at the time you bought it, it would be considered a sub adult or older juvie and that weight and length would be a proper size for a dragon that age. I might have missed that point on the age somewhere. I have a very small adult dragon that I got from a friend who had rescued her. She was bred too young and is 256 grams and 9.5" with most of her tail gone. She is an adult over 1.5 years old and will never be bred because of her small size but she has such a good disposition and I am afraid someone will breed her is why she is still with me. Just curious on the age thing.
Click to expand...

She was supposed to be 7 months old when I bought her, clearly undersized already.
I am not making an issue of the dragon I bought. I knew she was undersized, I knew she had a bad foot, and I made the choice to do it. Stupid? Maybe it was. I knew I'd only be able to keep her for a few months because of my own space limitations, and I've placed her in a home where I am 100% sure she won't ever be bred.
Look, I know how dumb it is to buy animals that are genetically iffy, as this one was, or sick, or any of the other reasons why you shouldn't. The rational part of me agrees, the emotional part, the one that sees a sick or injured animal is hard to turn off, and occasionally I let my heart make the decisions even when my brain and my husband aren't happy with it.
For the record, and I think I've been clear, I do NOT regret buying Nikki, the dragon. I adore that little girl and went out of my way to put her in a home where I will always have contact with her. I also truly hope that the reports I've seen that Gloria's husbandry issues no longer exist are also correct, both for her sake, and the sake of the animals in her care.
 
I am really sorry to hear that. So far my dragon seems to be an acceptable size for her age. She sounds like she may get another inch or so on her at about 14 mos old, she probably will plus gain a little more weight. Possibly an average size dragon once she is an adult. I understand where you are coming from, I used to do the same thing when I rescued dragons and iguanas. Then people kept telling me I was doing it the wrong way. So I still go to the pet store to get the things I need, I just don't go look at the reptiles because all it does is break my heart. There is nothing wrong with being an old softie, but just remember what I said in my previous posts. Buying and paying for a sick animal is not rescueing, it is only adding to the problem because they will never improve the husbandry issues as long as people are buying them.
 
Iguanalady said:
I am really sorry to hear that. So far my dragon seems to be an acceptable size for her age. She sounds like she may get another inch or so on her at about 14 mos old, she probably will plus gain a little more weight. Possibly an average size dragon once she is an adult. I understand where you are coming from, I used to do the same thing when I rescued dragons and iguanas. Then people kept telling me I was doing it the wrong way. So I still go to the pet store to get the things I need, I just don't go look at the reptiles because all it does is break my heart. There is nothing wrong with being an old softie, but just remember what I said in my previous posts. Buying and paying for a sick animal is not rescueing, it is only adding to the problem because they will never improve the husbandry issues as long as people are buying them.
Click to expand...

I know that. I also avoid the reptile sections in pet stores for the same reason. I know I'm a softie, and I love reptiles, and believe me when I say that we take in enough of them simply from people who get them thinking they're "cool" but have no clue how to care for them, and have no desire to learn once they find out that it can be expensive.
IMO, there is only one way to improve husbandry conditions, and that is to make the community aware when you see something that is questionable. I think that most of accept the fact that we can't change the conditions in pet stores where the sole agenda for them is making a profit. In our own community hopefully we can make a difference, and we aren't going to be able to do that if people won't speak up, or are afriad to speak up when they see an issue that should be addressed.
 
Just to clarify what was stated by someone here, I am not her partner and am no part of her business nor ever have been. We own our own business and breed boas and just got back into Colubrids. I used to breed dragons and that is how I met Gloria. We are sharing a both at the upcoming show but we are 2 separate entities. She is a really good friend of mine, I know her, her dragons and how much she cares for them. I agreed that it was a problem while she had her cages on order. With all said and done people will see what they want and do what they want. I know that they are no longer kept that way and will no longer happen due to she is downsizing her breeding. She has only been doing this a very short time just a couple of years and it is very easy for it to get a bit clustered in numbers before you know it. She rectified her situation. I stood up for a friend and will continue to do so anytime the situation may arise.
Sincerely Shanell.
 
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