Desert Females?

[Robert Walker]

So just simple curiosity... where have all the Desert females gone to? Every once in a while you might see one up for sale with "can't produce" disclaimer, but where have all the rest ended up at?

 

[Dbz4246]

Personally, I think a lot of people are wholesaleing them off or culling them. But your right though, I haven't really seen much advertising for desert females lately.

 

[hhmoore]

People are breeding deserts?
Maybe they go to the same place that all the normal male babies go every year?

 

[j_dunlavy]

probably culled.
I LOVE the look of the gene but the reproductive issues in desert females has kept me from even bothering to get into it.
I don't think it is much of a stretch to assume other breeders avoid deserts for the same reason.

 

[Dbz4246]

I don't think it is much of a stretch to assume other breeders avoid deserts for the same reason.

I'm sure that's a reason as well, I'm all for having some of my snakes as pets, but I don't have the room for an extra that I can't use later if I choose.

 

[Snake-Queen]

People are breeding deserts?
Maybe they go to the same place that all the normal male babies go every year?

Most likely ... especially if we are referring to pets stores and as *gasp* feeders.

 

[Robert Walker]

Ball pythons as feeders... I guess I can't seem to wrap my head around it still. Not saying there is anything wrong with it as opposed to other kinds of snakes, it just is a lot of work to actually get babies period.

I kind of wondered if the adult/juvy desert females had been basically flushed out of the breeder market and worked their way down to the pet level now?

I breed two of our desert females last year, both laid eggs and hatched out some super jpolyorleg morphs. "Just pulling your leg", I don't have deserts.

 

[j_dunlavy]

Most likely ... especially if we are referring to pets stores and as *gasp* feeders.

strange how feeding snakes as feeders is taboo when feeding rats and lizards is considered the norm. coral snakes (and other "snake-ivores") have to eat too...

Just a thought: if nobody does any studies on the desert females, how will we determine if there is a solution to the problem?
If 1 in 100 is fertile and produces fertile females we will never know unless it is investigated at some point (obviously in a non-invasive way like MRI, etc, to examine the reproductive tract; not by breeding to see if they survive ovulation).
like everything else, I suppose it comes down to money.

 

[Robert Walker]

coral snakes (and other "snake-ivores") have to eat too...

Just a thought: if nobody does any studies on the desert females, how will we determine if there is a solution to the problem? ...I suppose it comes down to money.

I really have almost zero experience with "snake-ivores". Only ones that come to mind are: BlackHeaded python, coral & kings. Is there another common snake eater out there that is slipping my mind? Or are we talking about anything that is willing to eat a snake, lizards, birds, etc. for ball python feeders?

As far as studying Deserts, I honestly don't know how far people have taken this. They may have decided, like you mentioned, not worth the investment of time and money to pursue it. Perhaps if we had any biologist here who needed a research paper, wink wink.

 

[Dbz4246]

I think hognose might eat othersnakes, at least I remember seeing a pic of a Hognose eating a stillborn baby. But I just cant see how ball pythons can be an affordable food base compared to Rats and Mice?

 

[Robert Walker]

how ball pythons can be an affordable food base compared to Rats and Mice?

That is what makes me wonder too. Perhaps the feeder snakes are supplemental or like the occasional holiday turkey and stuffing type of thing.

 

[Dbz4246]

Either way, Desert Females, I think the breeding hype on deserts has dwindled a lot. I see males for sale but not really as much as I used to.

It could be as simple as breeders not getting the gene because they cant breed... It's a shame since the desert gene was one of my dream snakes to breed down the line when I first saw one, loved the tiger combo.

 

[Robert Walker]

Can you imagine trying to maintain an exclusive snake eater...wowza!!

 

[Dbz4246]

like the occasional holiday turkey and stuffing type of thing.

Possibly. Feeding a snake a snakey treat... like a delicacy... with cheese sauce... yea I don't know where I am going with this, I need more sleep

 

[Robert Walker]

They absolutely make some killer looking stuff. I personally can't afford to keep snakes that can't help pay for themselves to some degree. So I can easily see why people would "need" to remove them from their breeding collections.

 

[hhmoore]

I've fed snakes to corals, cobras, alligators, and monitors.
As far as

I just cant see how ball pythons can be an affordable food base compared to Rats and Mice?

It doesn't take long for a low value snake to out eat its worth...you can continue feeding it in the hopes of getting a few dollars (which won't cover the feeding bill), or give it to somebody/something that might enjoy it.
I've got a couple of '14 normals upstairs that I'll end up giving away at some point; but, if I still had something that would eat them, I wouldn't think twice about it.

Can you imagine trying to maintain an exclusive snake eater...wowza!!

There are snakes that are far more prolific than BPs. I certainly wouldn't breed BPs with the sole intent of using them as feeders.

 

[Dbz4246]

It doesn't take long for a low value snake to out eat its worth

Yea, that's the truth. But I don't think I can throw a healthy baby snake to the wolves (or other snakes) just because of what it happened to not be. At that point, I would most likely just give it away.

I would probably consider feeding off a snake if it was a bad feeder, or had genetic problems that it was going to be culled/die anyway.

 

[hhmoore]

It's an individual choice. The thing about using bad feeders as feeders is the consideration of what you'd be feeding your _____. Would you feed your BP an emaciated, nonfeeding rodent? Probably not, between the concern over something being wrong with it and the relative lack of nutrition in a meal like that. Same deal for feeding a snake to something else. A healthy, feeding snake is a better, more nutritious meal.

 

[Occidentalis]

Perhaps if we had any biologist here who needed a research paper, wink wink.

Biologists have to perform a bit of triage on what we can pick as projects. Funding right now, especially for basic research, is really limited.

Not to say the problem isn't uninteresting or easily uncovered, but unfortunately I can't see any real ecological, evolutionary or behavioral question that is really addressed by investigating. The results would be very limited in scope and publishable in only the lowest impact journals, as the problem is probably of little interest to people outside the hobby. Picking projects that have big payoff are how you get/keep your job, especially in the climate now, so it would be really tough to justify doing.

 

[Snake-Queen]

strange how feeding snakes as feeders is taboo when feeding rats and lizards is considered the norm. coral snakes (and other "snake-ivores") have to eat too...

My gasp was in deference to the ball python breeders ... not of any sensibility I have about feeding snakes to other snakes. I have several friends that have cobras and other snake eating snakes; for whom I save a dead small snakes & bearded dragons for.

I really have almost zero experience with "snake-ivores". Only ones that come to mind are: BlackHeaded python, coral & kings. Is there another common snake eater out there that is slipping my mind? Or are we talking about anything that is willing to eat a snake, lizards, birds, etc. for ball python feeders?

I believe Indigo Snakes eat other snakes ... not that those are common.

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I have a friend that has a theory that desert females should be able to lay eggs if bred at over 2000g.

I think tho, that the desert gene isn't being worked with much anymore, like the caramel albino.