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Deworming CB snakes??

SheepyRock

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Hi all, I have 2 snakes (ball pythons) and both are CB. When I got them, I took them to a reptile veterinarian and he did a physical exam, a fecal exam (which was negative), and pronounced them in good health, but did recommend an injection of ivermectin for deworming just in case. He explained that a fecal exam can be false negative, so I went with his recommendation and he administered the deworming injection. This seemed like good medicine to me....until I registered here at fauna and saw threads that other herpers had written in response to someone selling dewormed CB snakes, saying that it must be bad husbandry or not CB at all to need/warrant deworming. Why is deworming looked down upon for CB snakes? Isn't it better to be safe than sorry? Wouldn't a prospective buyer be comforted knowing that the snake(s) they are interested in is/are parasite free? I am so confused, someone please help! Thanks!
-Andrea Molare
[email protected]
 
most reptiles do not react well to medication, but if the need for it out ways the risk then it is a good idea. I say if it aint broke then dont fix it. you doing a great job bringing your heathy animals to the vet, keep it up.
 
Deworming is a must

Whether an animal is CB or not doesn't stop parasites. Some species of parasites are the most widely distributed organism on the planet. This is becuase of thier ability to go unnoticed for long periods of time. Some parasites are species specific and others not. It is probable that if you had a small number of reptiles and they were never in any contact with any other animals that you many keep them parasite free. However you can pick up parasites and bring them into your colony on your clothes, hands/skin, feeder animals, even the air can blow some parasite eggs around. I myself have seen in 2004 an live ascarid come out of a 3 year captive eastern diamondback rattlesnake that had been treated upon capture and quarantine. A dead ascarid come out of a CB GTP that had been in a closed colony that was assembled in only two steps and every animal was quarantined. A dead tapeworm come out of a 5 YEAR!!! captive produced mangrove snake that was the persons only animal venomous or not!!!

In every industry whether it is dogs, cats, cattle, or horses we have developed preventitive care regiments of worming and vaccinations. However many people in the reptile industry think if something is CB then it will never be sick or or have problems. Well the bad news is that many CB animals harbor more stuff than most wild caughts (while in the wild, not at the importers), due to the fact of reduced caging(compounds pathogens/infections organisms), lack of sunlight (no uv sterilization), and poor sanitation by many individuals. Also many people are starting to think that some CB animals may not develope a very complex immune system becuase they do not see all the bacteria/fungi/viruses(problematic, benign, or symbiotic) they would in the wild so when they do come into contact with something in captivity it is much more detremental than in the wild.

With the lack of energy expenditure that CB snakes have and the amount of food we enable them to to have most of them are on the verge of obesity. With this fact we may not see the nutrient depriving effects that worms have. Since we have all been taught that animals with worms will not gain weight, look emaciated, and been less energetic we tend to overlook other factors of detrement that worms perform. Many have migratory larval stages, some through the gut wall(causing ulcerations), through the lung(causes blood clots, blockages to alveoli, possible embolisms), and some into the central nervous system.

While we think our animals may be perfectly fine due to looks there is much more on the inside than we can see-with health and the reptile industry.

Mnay people in the reptile industry also simply treat with fenbendazole and ivermectin and call it good. Well protozoans, ameobas, and tapeworms laugh at those wormers. Metrodiazole will take care of the protozoans but care must be used becuase old data/dosage levels are now considered toxic-it is also extremely hard on indigos/cribos/turtles/torts.

Droncit is another wormer that is overlooked due to its price($3-7 per animal), but it is one of the few that will treat tapeworms and truely kill the scolex(head). Many wormers will stun tapes and they will shed the body segments which are also egg packets but the scolex survives and builds a new body.

Also wormers are supposed to be given in courses of 2-3 sometimes 4 stages depending on the wormer/volume given/and type of animal. Many reptile people are guilty of giving one dose then calling it good. Also a lot of use won't take a 20 dollar ball, or 15 dollar corn to the vet becuase of cost. So when we do get a wormer/antibiotic/any other drug we hang onto it until it is gone, and I have seen many people using out of date drugs. Granted in the real world many drugs are good past thier experiation dates-but for how long? Nobody can tell.

As you stated correctly fecal exams are not always correct, as we all know you should not treat animals for diseases/conditions that are not there to prevent drug resistance by whatever other organisms are present at the time of treatment, but having the label of CB is not an acceptable excuse for ignoring a real threat.

You may have gotten your CB balls from a breeder but did the breeder only have CB animals, did the the breeder practice true pathogen exclusion-not just pathogen control. Was the animal bought at a show where 100's of thousands of reptiles were sitting within yards of it. There are millions of vectors and fomites that transfer pathogens around us daily and the pathogens and infectious organisms are only here today because they have deveolped means to survive, infest, and reproduce.


Hope this helps-an excellent reference book is Klingenburg(spelling?) Guide to understanding reptile parasites.

Ben Cole
 
first off CB snakes can and do get internal parasites, they can get it from their feeders (yes even frozen thawed)... they can get it from certain substrated not sterilized, they can get some from other snakes housed together. certainly and unclean cage is a play ground for bacteria and whatnot. i do not understand why you vet recomended ivermectin... it is very harsh on a reptiles body and VERY easily overdosed and yes if overdosed can be toxic and sometimes fatal.(originally ivermectin was used in equine and bovine... now its is used and feline and canine but reptiles are very sensitive to it)
i understand a false negative but i would just do a series of fecals.. if the animal has no parasites after that no need to deworm... the deworming process is not very easy on the snakes system whether it be ivermec., flagyl, strongid and even the "safest" of dewormers panacure... allot of these are very easy to overdose and also along with the deworming medicines you need to make sure the animal is very well hydrated.
 
Thank you

Thank you for everyone's input! I will continue to take my snakes to a reputable reptile veterinarian and follow his advice. It is interesting to see what other herpers think about deworming, and now I have more info so I can form my own opinion. Thanks again!
-Andrea!
 
dosages

The dosage will vary somewhat due to the species, age/size of the animal, and also to a small degree the temp you are keeping them at(lower temp=slower metabolism=longer interval between dosages).

Please email me with the info and I will get out my formularies this afternoon when I am home from work.

Thanks
ben cole
 
bcherps said:
The dosage will vary somewhat due to the species, age/size of the animal, and also to a small degree the temp you are keeping them at(lower temp=slower metabolism=longer interval between dosages).

Please email me with the info and I will get out my formularies this afternoon when I am home from work.

Thanks
ben cole
I don't have any animals that need to be treated at this time. Was looking for some sort of chart or guidelines to save for future use. Is there a good book or website that I could use to help me figure out dosages based on the above factors when the time comes?
 
books

I use a few different books as references. I really like Klinenburgs Guide to Understanding Reptile Parasites, Dr. Rossi's What's wrong with my snake, Dr. Frye's Reptile Clinician's Handbook, and The Merck Veterinary Manual.

When I am home tonight I will try to post some excerps on the drugs you asked about.

Thanks
ben
 
Dr. Rossi

I currently take my reptiles to Dr. Rossi for their veterinary care and I also purchased his book, "What's Wrong with my Snake?" and I can personally say that he is an EXCELLENT reptile vet! His book is also very informative and has a lot of different medications and the dosages. I highly recommend it.
-Andrea
[email protected]
 
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