Disgusted with Banner ad on this site...

[ReptileEmpire]

Looks like they changed the ad. "Freddy" is not on the banner ad here anyway, I haven't went to their site to see if they are still advertising it there.

 

[Nirvana]

It always kind of surprised me that this company and their poor, eyeless turtles never came up on the BOI. I guess maybe it's just because there was nothing to inquire about; this company was and still is deliberately breeding deformed turtles -- animals deprived of an entire sense, I might ad -- and that's that.

In a way, I think it's almost a good thing that they make such a huge deal out of it -- that way anyone considering a purchase from this company will know that they're also breeding these deformed animals and can therefore know not to support them, and take their business elsewhere!

 

[darkbloodwyvern]

indeed

It always kind of surprised me that this company and their poor, eyeless turtles never came up on the BOI. I guess maybe it's just because there was nothing to inquire about; this company was and still is deliberately breeding deformed turtles -- animals deprived of an entire sense, I might ad -- and that's that.

In a way, I think it's almost a good thing that they make such a huge deal out of it -- that way anyone considering a purchase from this company will know that they're also breeding these deformed animals and can therefore know not to support them, and take their business elsewhere!

It helps when they put their cards on the table. I feel rather dumb regarding this ad since I PMed Webslave about it and he had to explain the google thing. oops, i hadn't known that that was how that sort of thing worked *sheepish* I don't know how much turtles use their sense of sight, but it is still pretty messed up to limit pet animals in ways like this. I know that diurnal albinos can also have problems, but this just seems taking the trend a bit too far.

 

[Nirvana]

Right. Morphs are one thing, and breeding for other forms of morphological differences can be debatable (the "scaleless" snakes, for example, or hairless mammalian pets) but deliberately breeding an animal to be deprived of one of its senses is just disgusting, IMO. I know my turtles seem to be very visually oriented...

On the topic of the Google ads: I think the subject of the ad displayed depends on what conversations are currently being posted on the forums. For example, the ad currently being displayed on my computer is for none other than the topic of this conversation: Google ad services! (No kidding!)

 

[ReptileEmpire]

Looks like I spoke too soon. The eyeless turtle ad is back up again. I wonder why they changed it for awhile then changed it back?

 

[theturtleshop]

I'm not sure if any turtle breeders actually responded to this thread but www.turtlesale.com does not breed one eyed and no eyed turtles. That is just an advertising gimmick. These are simply deformities of nature. Millions of red ears are bred each year and the sheer number of hatchlings produces deformities such as one eyed and no eyed turtles. They sell so many varieties of turtles and tortoises, I doubt they do any breeding themselves. I by no means agree with turtlesale's advertising tactics. I remember they used to or still sell turtles with turtle lagoons. I just want to put everyone's mind at east that no one is breeding deformed turtles whether it be 2 headed turtles or no eyed turtles.

Andrew Yau

 

[Cat_72]

While this may be true, here is the actual text from their site:

No Eyed
Red Eared Slider Hatchlings
WELL THE PARENTS OF STEVIE HAVE DONE IT AGAIN !
These little babies are true miracles of nature.They have the same parents as Stevie our no eyed mascot.

 

[Stardust]

I can not for the life of me think of WHY this would be an advertising gimmick. What would be the purpose of it?
I find no humor or logic in it, all and all it is just disgusting.

 

[LadyOhh]

It always kind of surprised me that this company and their poor, eyeless turtles never came up on the BOI. I guess maybe it's just because there was nothing to inquire about; this company was and still is deliberately breeding deformed turtles -- animals deprived of an entire sense, I might ad -- and that's that.

This may be a little late in coming, but I think the fact that hopefully no one in their right mind on this forum would support that site and buy an eye-less turtle is one of the reasons that said topic is not on the BOI.


I HOPE

 

[Tim Cole]

You are

correct. Thats why it's here. There is a BOI thread about them stealing pictures though."Turtlesale.com Bad guy"

 

[Nirvana]

Andrew -- As Cathy pointed out, while I know they don't breed for bicephalic (two headed) or conjoined twin turtles (I don't even think it's possible to breed for those), they are definitely breeding for the eyeless trait.

 

[theturtleshop]

Although I don't want to get into an arguing match-think of the logic. 2 BLIND turtles breeding is nearly impossible. Red ear sliders have a courtship where both male and female red ears will vibrate their arms/nails in front of the others' head. This courtship requires eyes. Likewise when the male pursues the female-this also requires eyes. Although turtles do have a great sense of smell, I doubt they can find each other in a tank-mate no less. I'm not saying that it is impossible-but very unlikely. Turtles do not have a mating call-they use their eyes. So back to the point of breeding eyeless red ears. If turtlesale is in fact breeding red ears, he should consistently be producing perfect hatchling red ears with no eyes. He would also have plenty available. Instead of getting a perfect red ear with no eyes, he often has eyeles red ears with split scutes. This is an indication of deformities either due to temps during incubation or just a random deformity due to the sheer number of red ears being bred. Will any other turtle breeders chime in and give their two cents? So the question remains why would turtlesale say that eyeless turtles are a genetic trait? This is because believe it or not, there are many people out there that want to breed eyeless turtles and would be more inclined to buy an eyeless turtle if it was a genetic trait. Every year I get calls asking me if 2 headed or siamese turtles are genetic traits. If you want me to get into the nitty gritty about genetics and how unlikely it is that he is breeding eyeless turtles I would be happy to but anyone who has any turtle experience will know how quite impossible it is. Again-I don't like turtlesale-the company is whats wrong with the turtle business, I'm just saying that you guys are getting upset over nothing.

Andrew Yau

 

[ReptileEmpire]

If you read the site they are not breeding eyeless turtles together, they are breeding two turtles that produce eyeless offspring together repeatedly. Basically they are claiming the parents are heterozygous for a genetic defect causing the homozygous offspring to be "eyeless".

Whether their claims are true or not does not matter to me, it is just plain wrong to even claim to do it.

 

[Cat_72]

I'm just saying that you guys are getting upset over nothing.

Turtle breeding 101 aside....the guy is advertising defective animals at a premium price, he is either breeding them purposely or lying to the buying public about doing so (thus perhaps inspiring the inflated price, making people think it IS a genetic trait), and he steals other people's photos to represent the animals he is selling.

He is dishonest and selling defective animals at a premium price. In my book, that's not "nothing".

 

[boybronco]

Looks like I spoke too soon. The eyeless turtle ad is back up again. I wonder why they changed it for awhile then changed it back?

Google ads are randomly generated based on the words on the website. They change every time you refresh the page.

 

[Nirvana]

I can see how two eyeless turtles would have a tough time mating, but I don't find it too hard to imagine that there's some major defect that the phenotypically normal parents are carrying that would cause the eyelessness -- as well as the split scutes and other deformities. I know there's (essentially) no way to breed for conjoined twinning, but wouldn't it be possible to consistently produce eyeless babies? (I'm not trying to start an argument; I'm just genuinely curious...)

Genetic or not, it's still deliberately marketing severely deformed animals in one way or another ... I can understand selling the two-headed ones I guess -- I realize those poor things just crop up naturally due to the sheer volumes of turtles being farmed, and the high price just reflects demand -- but eyelessness?

He also seems to have a lot more eyeless turtles than two headed ones ...

 

[ReptileEmpire]

Google ads are randomly generated based on the words on the website. They change every time you refresh the page.

Correct, what I was saying is that they had actually changed their ad, they have one showing land tortoises and not Freddy. It was showing up for about two days, now it is showing Freddy again. It looks like they have several different ads, but the one with Freddy runs the most.

 

[ReptileEmpire]

He is dishonest and selling defective animals at a premium price. In my book, that's not "nothing".

 

[theturtleshop]

Well, just randomly finding 2 "normal" looking turtles who happen to be both "het" for the eyeless gene seems a bit ridiculous to me, no matter if their claims are true or not I agree that their advertising tactics are less than kosher. Turtlesale to me-and to serious turtle hobbyists/breeders are what is wrong with the turtle business. As for the question as to why eyeless turtles pop up more than Siamese or two-headeds? I don't know but I am guessing that 2 headeds and Siamese turtles are a more extreme deformity which requires twins to begin with. Anyhoo, let me share with you a picture of my personal 2 headed turtle. They are 2 years old and growing great! On another note, I acquired a pastel western paint with no eyes last year. The pic is shown below. Pastels of any turtle morph are not a proven trait and most likely due to incubation temp irregularities. Anyhow enjoy. The pastel is currently living at a reptile exhibit and to my knowledge is still alive and well.

Andrew

 

[Nirvana]

Andrew -- you're right in that it does seem pretty unlikely that there would be two "het" for eyeless parents ... I could see it happening, but who knows. They do claim that the parents that produced their "mascot" eyeless turtle also produced the eyeless babies, but then again, why should anyone believe them? Also, what you say makes perfect sense as to why the eyeless trait would pop up more than two-headedness...

That two headed baby you have looks remarkably healthy -- two years old -- Wow! Good luck with it!