Does the Ball Python industry have a future?

[hissnthatexotics]

Firstly I'm not trying to start a fight, but I kind of want to know what you guys think. IMO I think with the amount of people breeding balls and the recent price drops are going to destroy ball pythons. At the same time there will probably be new stuff all the time. I personally, with the exception of very few ball python morphs that I find beautiful I choose not to work with them. What do you guys think?

 

[j_dunlavy]

I think there is a future for the ball python "industry." I think the ball python hobby has a better future.
The fact that they are such docile animals of a relatively small size with a wide variety of morphs will keep them as a favorite for many people, for many years to come.
I think the market crashing the way it is will rid the ball hobby of those who were in it only for the money, leaving us with those who truly admire and respect them as animals; and that is a good thing IMO.
Once the market finds the bottom and the "money only" breeders are gone, I think those who stuck it out because they love ball pythons will see a rise in prices because the supply has been reduced, although it may take quite some time for that to happen.
The large scale breeders like BHB or Constrictors Unlimited will likely remain the lead suppliers in the "industry" and to the hobby; small scale hobby breeders who never cared about the money will have more opportunity to work with morphs that were once unattainable and keep them going in the hobby; Small scale "money" breeders who were trying to make a fast buck on expensive morphs will be destroyed.

I think the most important thing with balls is to work with morphs you enjoy because you enjoy them. I have also been trying to pair things in such a way that I do not produce an overabundance of normals and normal 66% hets; those add to the problem of market saturation.

 

[chrisis697]

I totally agree with you Jon and couldn't have said it better myself. Work with the animals you want to produce and create. not the ones to just make a quick buck.

 

[hissnthatexotics]

I agree with that premise and we can only hope that all the money hungry guys get out of it

 

[John kimball]

But then the importers/exporters bringing in new and possibly new morphs won't be out diligently looking for new stuff. People will always want something new and exciting. It's ebb and flow just like all markets pretty much.

 

[John kimball]

Markets will stabilize. Unless WW3 happens in the next few years. Haha

 

[chrisis697]

the importers and exporters will continue to do what they do because that is part of their business. There is always going to be a market for new genes and that's what they capitalize on. people are going to come and go but the true hobbyists will be in it for the long run. And just with anything the more you produce the cheaper it will get as with why you're more common genes or older ones are worth just a little more then normals are.

 

[bcr229]

But then the importers/exporters bringing in new and possibly new morphs won't be out diligently looking for new stuff. People will always want something new and exciting. It's ebb and flow just like all markets pretty much.

While true I've noticed that the prices on even new morphs aren't as high now as they were just a few years ago. I don't know if that's due to the economy, which still isn't great, or if it's because of the realization after the desert female fiasco that there's a lot more risk in working on a project with the latest morph than was previously thought.

 

[John kimball]

While true I've noticed that the prices on even new morphs aren't as high now as they were just a few years ago. I don't know if that's due to the economy, which still isn't great, or if it's because of the realization after the desert female fiasco that there's a lot more risk in working on a project with the latest morph than was previously thought.

I think it's a combination of what you said. Economic uncertainty, fear of spending big money and not having something prove out. Like BHB spending huge money on the viper ball that wasn't genetic, then spending huge money again on the sunset right afterwards and taking 7 years to prove it out. High risk equals high reward....you can also screw yourself too if you don't dot your "i's" and cross your "t's" I think there will always money to be made or pay for your hobby but it comes down to smart choices while doing what we love and not screwing people over. I also think there's too much secrecy going on right now. Some people waiting years after proving something out so they can have 2,3 and 4 gene snakes before "releasing" it to the public.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

I agree it's a sound theory but have also seen these same threads for 5+ (maybe longer) years about BPs and the prices just keep going down faster and faster each year.
:/

 

[John kimball]

Happened in the housing market. California is just starting to come back. Sometimes takes a decade unfortunately.

 

[hhmoore]

I also think there's too much secrecy going on right now. Some people waiting years after proving something out so they can have 2,3 and 4 gene snakes before "releasing" it to the public.

That is just smart, from a business perspective.

*edited to correct quote fail*

 

[bcr229]

Some people waiting years after proving something out so they can have 2,3 and 4 gene snakes before "releasing" it to the public.

IMO this is also smart, especially since many genes look rather blah on their own but really pop in combos.

 

[Basand]

I also think there's too much secrecy going on right now. Some people waiting years after proving something out so they can have 2,3 and 4 gene snakes before "releasing" it to the public.

That is just smart, from a business perspective.

I agreed with Herald on this one. Everyone wants to capitalize on the investment they put into their new genes. Not to mention finding out what combis look like with it may increase the value of the gene.

Was I interested in YBs at first? No.

Did I learn my lesson? Yes. They look bland alone, but pair them up or even super them and they are incredible.

edited to correct quote fail (since the quoting of my own quote fail made it look like I said something I didn't
hhmoore

 

[John kimball]

I guess I talking more along the lines of brand new base morph secrecy. Like the atomic. No base atomic will be sold from what I hear; can't even seem to find a pic of one. I don't even think you can invest into the project anymore either. It just kinda went away for reasons unclear. Another interesting case of secrecy....what's up with the panda pied? I think they must have severe kink issues and perhaps that's why so few have been "produced". I think more have been born but have to be culled. You see black pastel pieds all over and it appears people are trying for pandas yet no one seems to hit the odds? I think more is at play here.

 

[hhmoore]

Super blacks have their issues...not surprising that it would carry over with other traits added to the mix. I'm basically out of the BP world - never heard of an atomic

 

[John kimball]

Super blacks have their issues...not surprising that it would carry over with other traits added to the mix. I'm basically out of the BP world - never heard of an atomic

Look up the Eclipse bp. Awesome looking snake. The atomic scrambles genes somehow.

 

[j_dunlavy]

it comes down to smart choices while doing what we love and not screwing people over. I also think there's too much secrecy going on right now. Some people waiting years after proving something out so they can have 2,3 and 4 gene snakes before "releasing" it to the public.

not screwing people over is a biggie; the "money breeders" are the ones more likely to do that because they care about the money more than the snakes.

waiting to release something makes sense as Harald said, but also it makes sense to wait so you are certain of what the gene is and what it does as well as waiting until you have enough breeding/genetic stock to efficiently work with the gene. If I had an incredible new gene, I would wait to release it but keep no secrets either.

 

[John kimball]

not screwing people over is a biggie; the "money breeders" are the ones more likely to do that because they care about the money more than the snakes.

waiting to release something makes sense as Harald said, but also it makes sense to wait so you are certain of what the gene is and what it does as well as waiting until you have enough breeding/genetic stock to efficiently work with the gene. If I had an incredible new gene, I would wait to release it but keep no secrets either.

For sure. customer service is HUGE in my book. If you treat customers well they'll probably give you free word of mouth advertising and buy from you again. Return customers are the backbone of a strong business. I agree with getting enough info, proving it genetic and getting breeding stock together and waiting to release so you can get and stay ahead of the competition. But yeah, full disclosure is important in my book. Plus if you let people know you have something exciting you can start generating interest in it and have people lined up to buy.

 

[Randy F]

There are two main factors for the ball python markets huge downfall. The two main factors end up falling back on us as a whole. The are a couple flippers that advertise here and a couple other sites. They sell below market asking value ("backdoor" deals are made A LOT). The worst one dropped banana prices over $2000 in a month. Seeing that caused a lot of people to wait for the "deals." By buying these animals at that price, you drive down the price of what YOU are going to sell. Now I understand that its hard not to buy at a cheaper price. Once these guys can't make money and it costs them money to house them, they go away. Ultimately by buying from someone known for quality over a cheap flipper rewards everyone.

Next is that because you can buy a freedom breeder v70 rack with 30 tubs, you don't need 30 breeder females. Do the math......if half go and give you 6 eggs, that's 90 babies. Are you ready to house and feed 90 babies? Over production leads to the lower end morphs being sold VERY cheap. Pastels, spiders, mojaves, pinstripes......as basic as normal now for this fact. Now days adding pastel to others genes is worth $20-$50 more than without, not like adding say orange dream for a couple hundred more. Go with a project or two and work towards goals, not numbers. A average person can keep a snake for $100 a year total. If a clutch made $200, you made all your money back. Now with that said, I do have over 100 snakes. I am working on my own gene and holding a lot back. People forget that before you release a gene you need to know it. I know some of you are scratching your head. Is it dominant or codom/recessive? That takes 2 to 3 years at best to find out. Does it unlock something when mixed with yellow belly (like puma, highway, etc.) or make a white snake? Another couple years. What does it do with a pattern morph? Unless you produce 5 or 6 males you first year and get 30 different single gene females to breed year two, it takes 5-7 years to get all the questions answered.

There are always little factors that play parts as well. So for those looking to buy as many as they can as cheap as they can so they can produce a lot.....