Donna of Donna's Geckos

[Mick]

Though I hate doing this, I have basically been left with no choice. Sometime back I purchased most of Donna's remaining leopard gecko’s, and to my dismay several of the geckos were sick or sickly and almost all of them were thin.
I expressed my concerns to Donna, and at no time did she offer to reverse the deal or even offer anything other than to express that they looked fine when they were with her. I finally had to tell her that I wished to make an even exchange, her geckos back for the money that I sent her, I would not even ask for compensation of vet bills to date.
Her reply was that she wouldn't do that, that she had already purchased some bearded dragons and didn't have the room. I find this a poor excuse for selling me sick animals and refusing to give me my money back after the fact.
I have made several attempts to contact her but she has to date been unresponsive to any of my attempts. Though I was advised to post this earlier I have been waiting, hoping that she would contact me so I could avoid this as I truly hate posting something like this. Please keep in mind for those of you who are interested in this that I am not talking about a long period of time here I am actually referring to a matter of weeks.
I doubt I will ever get my money back and would welcome Donna coming in here and making her own comments on the matter as it would be the first contact I would be able to get out of her lately.
For those of you interested in the full story (believe me this is the short version) email me for details. I have pics of some of the animals mentioned please feel free to email me.
If Donna can give me some type of explanation or even offer to reconcile the situation then I will be the first to post this, but until then I would have to caution anyone when doing business with her. Whether her acts were deliberate or due to her ignorance, I cannot say, however she is unwilling to correct situations such as these and I would hope that people are able to learn from my misfortune.

James Northam

For questions email me at… [email protected]

 

[KelliH]

I have done business with donna twice. The first time was last summer at which time Donna purchased geckos from me. At that time I spoke with her on the phone (I try to do that with as many customers or potential customers as I can as I can get a better idea about how they care for their animals, also I just like to gab about herps and she seemed like a very nice person who was just starting out in the hobby. After our conversation i had no qualms about selling my geckos to her, I felt they would be well cared for.

Several months later, Donna had an ad here on fauna for a male Tremper Giant leo and I was very interested. I contacted her via email and asked for some info on the animal. She then proceeded to tell me that this gecko was the biggest she had ever seen (possibly true) and that she could not give me an exact weight as she did not have a gram scale. She did however have a postal scale that she said measured in ounces. She told me this animal weighed 5 1/2 ounces which converts to 156 grams! I was sceptical to say the least but I figured even if she was off by30 grams that is still a 120 gram leopard gecko and was definitely much larger than normal. Anyway, to make a long story short I went against one of my golden rules and traded with Donna, who I knew nothing about other than she had purchased geckos from me in the past. I traded her 1.1 hypo carrottail juveniles for the male "giant" and a male rainwater albino. I saw pictures of the albino male and it looked very healthy, nice fat tail, beautiful. I figured an extra male Rainwater that was at least semi unrelated to my stock was a good thing.

When the I received the animals I was dissapointed to say the least. The "giant" male was no giant at all, he was an 80 gram adult normal leopard gecko. The Rainwater male had a thin tail and didn't look as though it had been eating recently. Both geckos were put into quarantine FAR away from any of mine and I was able to run fecals on both of them a few days later. I was not surprised at all to find that the albino male was loaded with coccidia. I unfortunatly had to euthanize him as coccidia is not something to mess around with when you have a large collection of geckos. It was very sad but I really had no other choice. The "giant" male was surprisingly clean, i ran two subsequent fecals on him and found nothing.

Two things about Donna that ticked me off (well other than the fact that she sent me ill and misrepresented leopard geckos) is that when she was selling all of her leopard geckos later on she still had some of the geckos she bought from me and she used my pictures on her website to represent what they looked like. These pictures were taken when they still lived with me and were healthy, not to mention the photos were several months old. ANyone buying those animals may have been tricked into thinking they still looked the same, which they obviously did not :-( Also, when she was selling all her geckos she made a comment in one of her ads that said something to the effect of, "all of my geckos are housed in glass tanks, I don't use those rack systems so mine are more healthy and happy", something like that. When I saw that ad I pm'ed Donna and explained to her that her animals were NOT healthy and that in fact I had had to put down the albino male because of the severity of his illness.

So yeah, that has been my experience with Donna. My gut feeling is that the reason she was "getting out of geckos" is that they were all either dying or getting sick and not eating and she probably wanted to recoup her expenses and get out of it. Apparantly now she is working with bearded dragons and fat tails. Sad thing is, they are just as succeptable to coccidia as leos, bearded dragons maybe even more so.

I very much regret not posting about Donna sooner as it may have saved someone else some problems and heartache. Sorry!

 

[KelliH]

Here is a link to Donna's ad about the "giant" leo:
Giant Leo Ad

 

[Mike and Erica @ MotherGecko]

So so Sorry.....

James,
So sorry to hear of the problems with the geckos. I just wanted to really say that you did the right thing bringing this here, wether or not she had reconciled with you. She sold sick, unhealthy geckos represented as healthy ones, which needs to be brought out into the open so noone else gets taken, and the disease isn't spread any furthur... This thread has finally made me realize myself that I personally have a "bad guy gecko" post as well to report here so noone else gets the same treatment
( you will see the post soon enough now ). Just think, as Kelli is SOOOOOOO right here. Now she's toying with dragons which are probably as subseptible to coccidia as Leopards are. If the condiditons her animals are kept in will bring down a group of Leopards, then I truly feel for those poor dragons. I wouldn't doubt that they have probably already been exposed to disease as well. Why do I say that? Coccidia is usually a product of very unsanitary practices, including but not limitted to, bad quarentine practices, animals sitting in their own filth, not changing water enough, not washing hands between handling animals and many others. If her geckos have been sold to others as healthy and in Kellis case VERY misrepresented then people should be warned before she sells out of her Dragons as they demise as well. For the sake of the BOI I will state I have never dealt with Donna personally but yes, I did inquire with Donna to do a trade with the same Tremper Giant you recieved Kelli. Again both James and Kelli, I'm so sorry to hear of the poor creatures I really hope the remaining geckos can be rehabilitated and brought back to a happy life. At any consulation to you both by bringing this out in the open you may have kept some other people from making a terrible mistake. Michael Beberman

 

[robin d.]

I am a friend of James, I saw the geckos the day they arrived. When i first saw them i stated how poor they looked.... a couple though were more healthy than the rest.. the patternless and blizzard looked horrible.. honestly you couldnt tell which was which they were both VERy dark and rather skinny with thin tails... the albino was in bad shape. I told him he needed to keep an eye out on them look for lose fecals and eating habits. Next thing i knew he proceeded to tell me the albino was regurging and they had lose fecals. I told him he needed to take them to a vet get them checked for illness or parasites and possibly depending on the condition of the animal have them put down but to make sure to have a necropsy done.
In the meantime i came here and did an inquiry on donna, (under my old name,dayer) i got only one positive repsonse, from her 'friend', Veronica.
I feel bad for James. from the get go he told donna of how the animals looked when they arrived, yet never did she offer anything. For the last week or so james has been debating of putting all the geckos down for fear of suffering, illness, disease or parasites, that can not be treated. Not only the geckos he bought from her but all his other geckos that are in the same quarenteen rack.
Just imagine if these geckos donna sold james have crypto and how damaging it could be to his other animals in quarenteen or not. Crypto can only be tested post mortum, via a necropsy. regaurdless of donna's ignorance she should be responsible for what she sent james. Donna can not blame it on her not knowing, you should be educated,researched and informed prior to keeping or breeding them, that is her own fault not james.
If she expect to take other hard earned money then she needs to act accordingly, take responsibility and be aware of her careless judgement.
If she claims the animals were in perfect health with fat tails and no signs of illness, she is a damn liar, i saw them!!
in my opinion donna needs to make this right, sell her animals to someone who gives a damn and jude fade away.

of couse this is all just my humble opinion

 

[Monte]

Thank you for the warning

I was toying with the idea of purchasing some of her geckos, and now I'm glad I didn't. Thank you for keeping us informed.

I also appreciate the manner your concerns were aired. The professionalism and humility in which you handled this concern is commendable.

Thanks again for the update and warning. I hope you can solve your leo's health problems.

Take care

 

[robin d.]

she's back!!!!!

and still trying to sell geckos...........
Donna's ad
Donna have you made right with james yet? are you trying to get rid of these geckos fast because they are sick like James's were? it's kinda funny once this post was made you disappeared into thin air. coincidence??? i think not...... buyer beward of Donna Of Donnas geckos

 

[Mick]

Donna never attempted any further contact...

Instead she had some associate named "Veronica" do so. Donna never contacted me any further after abruptly ending an online conversation I had with her, in which I informed her that the animals she sent me were sick. Bottom line was that she had my money and I had her sick geckos and I was out of luck. Shortly after this I began to receive emails from someone named Veronica who assured me she was a friend of Donna's who said that she had seen all the geckos and that they were fine when she last saw them. Later she changed her story to state that she had not seen the albino male gecko before shipping (he was the worst of the bunch).
I had misgivings about discussing the situation with Veronica due to the fact that the issue was none of her business, nor was I positive that she simply wasn't Donna using some other name. I finally stopped all correspondence with Veronica after I decided that nothing would come of any further communication with her and again having doubts regarding her identity.
So in short I again would state that DONNA IS NOT A PERSON TO BUY ANIMALS FROM . Either through intention or negligence her animals were not healthy and I could never in good conscience recommend anyone buying from her, as she is not prepared to make good on her deals.

For further questioning or any other details needed please email me at... [email protected]

Thank You,
James Northam

 

[veronica]

why didnt you ever send me the photos?

ashame I no longer have all the emails or I would reread all of them to refresh my memory.. but no I was not donna in discise. You stoped responding to me when i asked for photos of the animals. I had told you that not only did I, my husband, my mother and all 3 of my children see them all except the male. She got that male in a trade just before she sold all of them to you.
That is the only one i did not see and I told you that.
Where are the photos? You never did send them. Instead you made up excuses to me about how poor your connection was.
YEs i blasted you out at first but then I wanted to hear your side of the story.
All of the leo's that I saw one week prior to her selling them and shipping them to you were all very large and healthy. I didnt hold each one individually to inspect their eyes so I dont know if they had any eye infections. And no I did not see the male which you say was the worst.
Just like you have a friend who "claims" to have seen them all and sides with you.... you can say that I too "claim" to have seen them. I can get a written statement notorized from 7 people or more saying that all leo's appeared to be healthy.
You wanted a deal... you had only so much you were willing to spend and you bought them. She made no gurantees to you... and no im not siding with her or you.... just stateing what was said or done in this case.
Why now do you want to bring this back up again? and where are those photos you promised? or do you have connection problems again?

 

[veronica]

BY the way... donna works no she did not disapear into thin air...she was 12 plus hours a day with her husband and is not home ...that is why she is selling off the last of her fat tails.

 

[Seamus Haley]

I can get a written statement notorized from 7 people or more saying that all leo's appeared to be healthy

It becomes a question of...

Are the people claiming they were healthy able to make that determination with any degree of reliability?

Intending as little offense as possible here but those who have commented about the poor quality of the animals are some heavy hitters in the gecko business and they're certainly 100% capable of telling the health of the animals.

Now either all of them got together and decided to lie and write these false stories about bizzare and bad transactions/communications, or Donna has a problem with her animal husbandry.

Hmmm... Conspiracy Theory vs. Keeper who, despite good intentions, just doesn't understand the proper care of the animals.

I'm guessing it's not a conspiracy.

And as much as I have disagreed with a few of the individuals who have posted above on occasion, and agreed with others... I trust their determinations about "Healthy" more than yours or your family's Veronica... They didn't get where they are by overlooking health problems or lying.

She made no gurantees to you

She advertise them as "Healthy" the same way she advertised Kelli's animal as being twice the size it actually was?

That's called "misrepresentation" and in addition to being unethical and the sort of thing only scumballs would do, it can sometimes be prosecuted as a crime and most certainly can have reprecusions in civil court... If your friend is ripping people off and can't care for her animals properly, she needs to get out of animals. Selling off a diseased load of herps in order to replace them with animals that will likely end up with the same problem isn't the way to do business. Neither is using a surrogate mouthpiece who doesn't apparantly have the authorization to make decisions about how these misrepresentations are to be handled.

 

[Mike and Erica @ MotherGecko]

Again...

Well, since the bumping up of this thread again it has lead me to do some looking. I went through all my saved emails and found all the ones corresponding between Donna and I when I was inquiring about the Tremper Giant. Funny thing is I rarely save emails unless I think I may need them in the future. I will cut and paste a couple of them to give everyone a good idea of how the 'giant' was misrepresented.....................

my first email to her inquiring....

Donna,
I was surfing Fauna Trade section and noticed your ad. You have a Giant Leopard your wanting to trade. Do you have pic of it and whats the exact weight in grams. Attached is a pic of a good sized 2 year old female. She isnt quite a carrot tail but does come from Golden Gecko Carrot tail stock. She defiently has some orange in the tail. Send a pic of the Giant if you have one, thanks Mike

Her reply back.....

Mike,
you have not answered me back did you get the pictures
of the giant? do you want to trade?

I must have been quite busy as I return emails as promptly as possible but here is another reply by me..............


Got the pics he looks like a nice gecko. I really would like to know exact weight in grams as thats the determining factor in me trading. When did you get him and did he come from Ron Tremper? still interested, Mike

Her reply...................

Did not get him from Ron tremper...I did see one he
had alittle while ago looked just like him for
250.00...Some guy some him to me, it was none of the
big ones on here. I got him only 3 weeks ago and two
of my females are pregnant already and did not think
it was breeding time yet so i need the tank space..he
is all by himself right now and don't have room for
him. He is super nice and he is ready to breed NOW i
put my female in there to see what would happen and he
was going nuts...his tail was going a mile an hour!
But anyway can only have females for now since they
can be kept together...sorry about the grams i don't
have a scale yet for that...figured i had time till
babies. I only have the postal scale and he weighted
6 ounces..that was the other day so not sure now. Let
me know thanks

Ok there she states he weighed 6 ounces which totals out to 168 grams of weight. Here is my reply.....

I am very interested in him but need to know exact weight on the big guy to consider it. If he is truly 168 grams of weight I would gladly trade. By looking at the pic its hard to judge but he does look big. If you can get a hold of a reliable scale and can tell me the exact weight im all over him....Mike

Her reply back...........

I last weighed him the other day and he weighted 6
ounces not sure what that is in grams...I am told it
comes out to 168 grams...not sure..I only have a
postal scale and that has ounces and pounds..he is a
great guy but I need room and of course he is a male
so he needs his own space. Let ma know if I can
answer any other questions for you.. the female you
have has she breed at all? is she nice? anything else
you can tell me about her would be great she looks
yellow in pic..thanks

Well in the emails you can clearly see she was pushing the gecko Kelli recieved from her as a 5 1/2 ounce animal and to me as a 6 ounce animal. Why the change in weight??? By the way, where is Donna in all this, where is her defense, and no i'm not talking about 'Veronica the surrogate mouthpiece'.
If anyone questions the emails I have saved, as of course email can be doctored when cut and pasted. I will gladly give my password and allow someone neutral like Ritchie Luna to go through them and determine thier authenticity if questioned.
Mike B.

 

[GeckosbyDesign]

I am glad I saw this!!!

I had inquired about those fat tails because I am thinking about getting into breeding a couple but I am not as familiar with what is common or not in the fat tail arena. She did not respond and I would have checked this if I became more interested in her stock, but now I do not have to wonder about them.
Thanks
Bruce
www.geckosbydesign.com

 

[SFgeckos]

just wanted to add...

some additional information about donna's fattail ad on fauna.

here is the link below:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=18521


the orange fattail pictured is indeed the mother of the offspring that donna purchased.

HOWEVER, SHE DID NOT ASK OR HAVE PERMISSION TO USE THE PHOTO. She purchased the fattails from a good friend of mine a few months back, and when i saw that ad i asked him whether he had given special permission for donna to use his photo. I was told that he DID NOT GIVE PERMISSION TO HER and assured me that he would contact donna in the hopes of her pulling the photo off her ad.

This appears to be a similar tactic that donna used to try and resell geckos that she had purchased from kelli hammack (as stated earlier in this thread). Rest assured that any or all pictures of the parents (were stolen) or the geckos for sale themselves can not be accurate (especially if some of her animals have coccidia!)! BUYER BEWARE!

-Jonathan Ho
(SFgeckos)