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Don't Deal with Clinton Billingsley

J

jlexotics

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Here is the story:

I sold Clinton Billingsley a Large adult female ball python for $650. The snake was sent out on Oct. 13 2004. Everything was fine to my knowledge. 3 months later I get a charge back on my paypal account. I called paypal and asked what was going on. I was told Clinton went through his Credit Card Company to get back his money. He told his Credit Card Comany He DID NOT make the purchase. You do have to log into Paypal and Clintion NEVER reported someone had somehow gotten his password or changed it! I called Clinton and he said he recieved a box that was completely beat to crap and there wasn't a snake inside. Clinton DID NOT refuse the package, instead he signs for it. He then proceeds to tell me that he has pictures of the box, this and that....a bunch of crap to me. This chargeback is now in collections and I am going to have to pay it. Because I have been calling so much and dealing with this forever I misplaced the tracking number. Totally my fault, but I do wish for people to see what this scam artist does.
 
John,

Do you have e-mails or other written correspondence between you and Clinton to prove that he actually bought the snake?

It sounds like he is telling two different stories. On the one hand, you say he is telling the credit card company that he did not make the purchase. On the other hand, he is telling you that he received an empty box.

Does he know that you have posted this here? Maybe he wants to post those pictures.
 
Jim O said:
John,

Do you have e-mails or other written correspondence between you and Clinton to prove that he actually bought the snake?

It sounds like he is telling two different stories. On the one hand, you say he is telling the credit card company that he did not make the purchase. On the other hand, he is telling you that he received an empty box.

Does he know that you have posted this here? Maybe he wants to post those pictures.
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly this sale was done over the phone, not through e-mail. I can call paypal and have them send me a copy of my past sales which I can then scan onto the computer. They have locked my account due to the $650 charge back not being paid by me so I can't prove he bought the snake at this time. It's one story, he called his credit card company and took pictures of a battered box. I don't have a phone number for him anymore (lost the way bill GRRR!!! - going to cost me $650 for that move!!!) so he does not know about this thread. If I had a way to contact him I would. Why did I not get a call the day the box arrived? Instead a charge back 3 months later!!!
 
jlexotics said:
If I had a way to contact him I would. Why did I not get a call the day the box arrived? Instead a charge back 3 months later!!!
Click to expand...
That part does indeed sound fishy. I would have called the seller, I'm quite sure. What shipper did you use? Do you recall what city and state he lives in?
 
It was either UPS or Fed Ex. I can't track through UPS as they don't hold past shipped items past 6 months. It may have been Fed Ex though so I plan on calling them today. I'm going to do some homework today and see what other info I can get through paypal. I'll be sure to post my findings. Sucks I'm stuck with this bill and no snake.
 
Info

jlexotics said:
It was either UPS or Fed Ex. I can't track through UPS as they don't hold past shipped items past 6 months. It may have been Fed Ex though so I plan on calling them today. I'm going to do some homework today and see what other info I can get through paypal. I'll be sure to post my findings. Sucks I'm stuck with this bill and no snake.
Click to expand...

If you shipped through a local UPS store (mail boxes etc..) then they have record of every transaction you have done. They dont need your name, they will ask you for the city you shipped to and they will be able to pull up evey package sent to that city from your location. Shouldn't be hard at all. You said this chargeback happened 3 months after the sale, if thats the case, then items shipped past 6 months shouldn't be an issue unless you have waited over 6 months to post this.

Secondly, if Paypal has locked your account from sending or receiving money, you still may be able to access your account on pc. It shows you every transaction if you enter the appropriate days. If they refuse to allow you to access it, then contact them and ask for transaction details on all deposits in the amount of $650 which too shouldn't be hard as I am sure you haven't sold more than a couple of items for that exact amount.

Lastly, without keeping documents of a sale or transaction it leaves alot to be questioned ie.. pictures, and emails.

Good Luck

Jeff & Starr
5StarrMorphs
 
5StarrMorphs said:
If you shipped through a local UPS store (mail boxes etc..) then they have record of every transaction you have done. They dont need your name, they will ask you for the city you shipped to and they will be able to pull up evey package sent to that city from your location. Shouldn't be hard at all. You said this chargeback happened 3 months after the sale, if thats the case, then items shipped past 6 months shouldn't be an issue unless you have waited over 6 months to post this.

Secondly, if Paypal has locked your account from sending or receiving money, you still may be able to access your account on pc. It shows you every transaction if you enter the appropriate days. If they refuse to allow you to access it, then contact them and ask for transaction details on all deposits in the amount of $650 which too shouldn't be hard as I am sure you haven't sold more than a couple of items for that exact amount.

Lastly, without keeping documents of a sale or transaction it leaves alot to be questioned ie.. pictures, and emails.

Good Luck

Jeff & Starr
5StarrMorphs
Click to expand...

I have waited a long time to post this, I have no excuse why I haven't posted sooner, I guess I haven't gotten around to it. I can't access my account to view anything. I'm currently on the line to see what exactly I can get info wise. I have lost the way bill, which is totally my fault. If need be I will have paypal send me the past transactions to prove anything. Because Clinton went through his Credit Card Company Pay pal Can not get the funds back. Therefore They are dumping this back on me after I followed all of their seller protection policies! I now have his addess on hand from Paypal. Clinton is out of Atlanta Georgia. I will be going to UPS tomorrow with the shipping info to see if I can track down the Tracking number. This may infact get me out of this ordeal. Paypal has also informed me he told his Credit Card company that the female was not what he ordered. He knew exactly what he was getting. I would take this to small claims but this is going to cost me MORE money to do so and I may not end up getting my money back~! Time off work and so on...I have his address for anyone that wants it let me know. For details in person feel free to give me a call: (954) 691-5489
 
jlexotics said:
I have waited a long time to post this, I have no excuse why I haven't posted sooner, I guess I haven't gotten around to it.
Click to expand...

Time is always of the essence. It always harder to do things when you have to go back.

jlexotics said:
I would take this to small claims but this is going to cost me MORE money to do so and I may not end up getting my money back~! Time off work and so on
Click to expand...

Small claims is a relatively simple process and inexpensive. No lawyers, just you -vs- him. However, without anything to back up your claim, you sit in small claims as you sit here.......no way to prove your case and no win.

You said he has 2 claims, one that he says the package arrived damaged with no snake and the second one is that he never got anything or what he was promissed. The first thing to do is to solidify his statements about receiving items that he never paid for. Then when you are able to establish proof of that, then you use the info about a damaged box and no snake to damage his credibility. Once you have established either of the two, then contact the local authorities and have them do what our tax paying dollars pay them to do, and that is stop internet theft or crimes for that matter. Call the Atlanta PD and give them your info on him. Since the claim is filed, he has to be around to complete the claims. Also since you are in Florida and he is in Georgia, you can pull up any phone records from a cell or from a landline in the month of October to retrieve his phone number.

Having nothing to back up any transaction is a bit naive on your part. What if he had a problem and sent you back a snake that wasn't yours? Then you would really be stuck trying to prove he sent you the wrong one. Always take pics of your animals and always use emails as correspondance backed up by phone calls as it makes for an easy rebuttal in the worst case scenario.

As we said, Good Luck


Jeff & Starr
5StarrMorphs
 
John,

What is it? It's not what he ordered or he got an empty box? His story has more holes than a Limburg cheese!

Regards.
 
When I called Clinton Directly 3 months later when I found out I had a charge back on my account he told me that he recieved a box that was empty. He had to sign for the package in order to get it. He said he had the box and pictures which means he signed for the package! When I called paypal they told me he told his credit card company that he didn't recieve what he wanted (wrong item!). The proff I have is in my paypal account which they won't open because I don't want to pay for this! I've been looking all over and can't find the tracking number - this may cost me $650 but atleast everyone will know not to work with this guy. I plan on calling nextel to get his phone number and having a talk with him again! I'm going to let him know this thread is on here and he can come and fight a losing battle. If I had recieved a call the day the package arrived with no snake, I could have done something then and this would not be a problem. This guy is likely to run off with my snake and his money because of my lack of organization (lost tracking number). Again I can't get onto paypal so more proff of this transaction is lost! I will update what is said in the phone convo later today!
 
Well basically I'm going to end up paying because I somehow lost the way bill! This is completely my fault but at least people will know not to deal with Clinton. His phone number is NOT listed with 411 and I'm in the process of pulling my cell phone records~! I followed all of the Seller protection policies with paypal and when I had put it in dispute I forgot about it because they had told me that they should have no problem winning this dispute. Clinton's Credit Card Company didn't set things right and now I'm out the snake and the money. You learn from bad experiences like this and I'll be sure to start to file all of my records. I have Clinton’s home address for anyone that would like it! I should soon have his phone number as well!
 
Important things to remember.

#1 Keep all the shipping information
#2 keep the funds in your paypal account limited to what you can afford to have tied up. I keep about $10.00 in there and if I need to use the account to purchase something I move money over from the checking account. (I transfer money back and forth as needed.) Then use it right away so your balance remains small, that way if your account is FROZEN they are limited to what they are tying up. This might sound shady, but I know someone in the same spot as you are and they have just a few dollars of his money tied up. Now he has to take you to small claims court, and has the burden of proof, and even if he gets a judgement probably won't be able to collect.
 
I don't keep any amount of money in the account. The only thing frozen is my account (I can still use my personal account). I don't plan on using paypal any longer. I'm going back to the old fasion way of business! This way I won't have any trouble! Live, you learn!
 
John,
I have a couple of questions.

You shipped a person that you did not previously know a $650.00 animal.
Were you not the slightest bit anxious to know that it arrived safely at it's destination?

I have shipped hundreds of animals and I feel that I maintain some of the best packaging standards in the industry. Regardless, I am always uneasy until I have heard back from my customer that the animal has arrived safely and that they are happy with their purchase.

Some customers are slow to confirm arrivals, but in every case, I keep the transaction open until I've heard back that everything is alright.

Secondly, When you spoke with this person after the chargeback, did he give any reasoning for not contacting you on the day the "empty" box arrived?

I'm not trying to insult your methods - it just seems odd to me.
 
I expected everything was ok because I didn't hear back from the customer. I had sent out about 10 different shipments that day. If I don't hear back it usually means everything is great, you always get a call if something is wrong (so I thought). When he was contacted he could not come up with a reason for not calling me. He said the box arrived beat up. I said you signed for it didn't you?! He then said he had pictures of the box. Never did he give me a reason for not calling when I asked. I am not planning on using paypal any longer as I feel I am getting screwed (followed EVERY paypal protection policy). When I did still have the waybill before I lost it I gave paypal all of the information and STILL they put this transaction in collections. Paypal NEVER called to let me know where they were with this. After I called for the 5th time or so they told me to stop calling and they will call me, never happened - I got a letter from collections! I've learned a lot from this transaction~! I will be rethinking how I do business and how I run the business. I want to protect myself as well as the customers. It's time for change. I will now call and confirm every shipment. The lack of work in my part has really blown up in my face, this will not happen again!
 
It's time for change. I will now call and confirm every shipment. The lack of work in my part has really blown up in my face, this will not happen again!
Click to expand...

John,

It can happen again if you just rely on a call, as it would just be a he said she said thing. Have it in writing; an e-mail is by far better. That's one of the main reasons I still prefer postal money orders as a method of payment. Yes, they might be slower but they make me feel more at ease, both when paying or when receiving payment.

Regards.
 
I no longer accept Credit Cards! I'm only taking postal money orders, Bank Checks, and Cash. This is the only way I can come up with to protect myself. Maybe I'll just start going to the big shows with my animals.
 
dont deal with clinton billingsley

Hi all,

I am not a regular member of this forum but a friend called me and told me about this thread. I purchased this snake from Jl exotics. As i recall he called me on my cell phone(same number past 5 yrs) and informed me about this snake for sale, i said sounds good, sent money via paypal. snake is shipped UPS, no signature required, nothing on the box to say fragile, live animal, this side up, Nada. I actually wait home from work for the shipment, box arrives and is soaking wet(raining that day). I open the box, NO STYROFOAM , no newspaper, no heat pad , and of course no snake. Just a pillowcase with no tie around it nothing. I immediately pick up the phone and call. I offer to send (email ) picks of the box, help file the claim(loss), etc. I have bought over 100k in ball pythons, know most everyone in the Biz. never had a problem. never had a problem on a 30k Butter much less on a $650. normal that wasnt shipped properly. Every one owes it to their snake to ship it via approved methods(ie harmless REPTILE in box label) and in a properly packaged box with a pillow sack or snake sack with a PLASTIC WIRE TIE ON IT!!!!!! And of course, i declined the paypal money. for all i know, the scam was intended for me.
 
Clint, to call John a scammer would be far from fact. John has been a great seller as far as I have seen. I have never bought or sold anything with him, but I do know people who have.

You on the other hand claim that everyone knows you, I have never heard of you and I do sell ball pythons a good bit. I also know a good many of the top breeders.

It is also very hard for me to see where a driver would deliver a completely empty box that is soaked with rain, as well as destroyed.
 
Even though this thread is 2 years old, didn't paypal always notify both parties if there was a dispute? If one pays via paypal, don't you deal with them instead of your credit card company?
And last, even if something like that happened, wouldn't most people immediately notify the vendor and ask for a refund/replacement?
 
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