Don't get scammed!

[sschind]

If you approach me for a trade deal... be prepaired to ship out first and once the animal arrives as described then and only then will I ship out to complete the trade. Dont approach me to trade then expect me to ship first or at the same time... wont happen.

I agree with this but what if you post an ad and say "trades considered" or what if you post a "want to trade" ad and someone contacts you with a proposal. In that case I would consider you the one initiating the trade and I would expect you to ship first.

 

[Southern Wolf]

If you wanna send people pictures of where you live, go for it. Me, I'm not going there. I think that's my choice, or at least last I checked I had a choice. This isn't about big brother, it's about what little privacy I have left.

Im gonna have to side with her on this one. Eventually I do plan on getting some shots of my breeding operation... but my house is off limits. Unless your a friend... I wont even let customers come to the house. We meet in town somewhere. If I loose a sale... so be it. I still work for a living and I'll just work an hour or two more to make up for the lost snake sale.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Its a scary world we live in. Everytime we submit a PayPal payment for something we purchase, they can easily see our home because of the address thats associated with our PayPal acct. Everytime we ship something, we have to use a return address as well. They have access to our addresses really easily so that info isnt the problem.

I think her point was... they are working for those type pics she is not helping them invade her privacy (home life).

The person who wanted a pic of my home, he actually asked for a specific photo, a tree in my front yard, the one with the bricks around it

Dean....you know I have some respect for ya... but dude... thats kinda freaky... like stalker freaky. If someone out of the blue contacts me about an animal I have for sale then goes and tells me to take a shot outside of a tree with bricks around it... (and I have THAT tree outside).... the sale... Im contacting the cops.

Maybe its because of what I do for a living that pays the bills... but Im not playing those games. If I buyer doesnt trust me enough to where I have to prove a pic of the house to prove its my house... they can go fly a kite.... I dont need their business that bad.

Like I said... thats stalker freaky... and I aint playing those games. I work for the DOJ and I dont have no problems putting them to work.

 

[Southern Wolf]

I agree with this but what if you post an ad and say "trades considered" or what if you post a "want to trade" ad and someone contacts you with a proposal. In that case I would consider you the one initiating the trade and I would expect you to ship first.

I can see where your coming from... but me personally... I dont post trades.... period end of story. If I see something I like then I will buy it... if I have something for sale... I sale it.

HOWEVER

If I happen to know ya as a friend.. then I have been known to work out trades between friends... but I will never post "I want to trade"... because I will never ship first. Maybe its what I do to pay the bills... but Im not a trusting person when it comes to people.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

Dean....you know I have some respect for ya... but dude... thats kinda freaky... like stalker freaky. If someone out of the blue contacts me about an animal I have for sale then goes and tells me to take a shot outside of a tree with bricks around it... (and I have THAT tree outside).... the sale... Im contacting the cops.

Kevin, while I totally agree with you and the request sort of shocked me, I went ahead and did it because it was the ease of mind of that particular customer which (they) he needed. If someone wants for me to take a picture of a tree outside that I have seen on satellite maps, I have no problem doing it.

Im not worried about whether or not my job would be a risk. I have family members who it would be a problem for being what their jobs entail. I knew what the customer was getting at so I didnt have an issue. It was a large trade, over 1000.00 worth and they would have no recourse in getting their money back had the deal been a sour one.

In normal circumstances, a lesser denomination deal, I am not going outside the snake room to take more pics.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Kevin, while I totally agree with you and the request sort of shocked me, I went ahead and did it because it was the ease of mind of that particular customer which (they) he needed. If someone wants for me to take a picture of a tree outside that I have seen on satellite maps, I have no problem doing it.

Im not worried about whether or not my job would be a risk. I have family members who it would be a problem for being what their jobs entail. I knew what the customer was getting at so I didnt have an issue. It was a large trade, over 1000.00 worth and they would have no recourse in getting their money back had the deal been a sour one.

In normal circumstances, a lesser denomination deal, I am not going outside the snake room to take more pics.

Seems as if the customer just wanted to make sure that you actually had access to that tree (meaning you actually lived there and it wasn't going to take you an hour or 24 hours to take that pic). I would have no problem taking pics of the outside of the house. While I don't sell from the house, I think maybe we all can be pretty good judges of whether or not some request is "off the wall" or a customer being extra cautious.

Just my opinion...

 

[chamgirl99471]

I'm kinda lucky I live in the middle of nowhere and my house is set so far off the road it's hard for them to get a good view of the residence!! I don't like giving my location to people but kinda have to when I ship although it wouldn't do much good for someone to look us up on Mapquest or Google cause they give the wrong directions on both of those sites... Yeah... brings you into the neighborhood but way past our house! If I do a local sale.. I usually agree to meet on neutral ground! Just a precaution as I don't have a Retail Store.. I'm a Hobbiest for now and really don't want to be invaded When I make a sale.. I give my address, phone number and name!! That way if there are any problems I am available!!

 

[R. Eventide]

I also agree with Shadera and Kevin. While the information is already out there and readily available, most crooks are lazy and dumb. I bet the vast majority of people on the Internet don't realize they can find/see people's houses/addresses/etc. with very little effort. I mean, geez, just look at the sheer number of people who either don't know about or can't find the search function on this site!

The semi-smart crooks will be able to find the information themselves, but I'm not gonna help the dumb ones and volunteer the information.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

Volunteer what? Google?

 

[StrictlyExotics]

What people here DONT realize, I never "asked" someone to take a pic. So this what I get from this thread so far, let me know I am wrong please. I will admit, I am in agreement with most of this but read what think about what everyone is saying...

No phone, no address, no pics of a tree in my front yard that they are ALREADY looking at on Google, nothing to secure a customers assurance that we are real on a high dollar deal that if it was a scam, they had no recourse getting the value of their trade back? Its no wonder why there are so many scammers in this industry as we give them so many outs.

When do we decide that our being paranoid is just that. I mean, I "try" not to do business on the phone for my own personal reasons. I wont let people come to my home to see my collection or buy something. All the while, I have no problems giving someone my address, especially in a trade as I have to at some point anyhow. I also have no problems taking a pic of a tree that is already shown on any satellite mapping search engine out there. I will even be kind enough to take the photo with a gun or dog or something that shows them I also mean business.

So it seems, if we are in business, we are truly not in the business of building customer confidence in ourselves. If it were me as a customer, I would personally feel that if I couldnt have some of this info, you wont be in the business of having something to sell or be able to service what you sell.

This is a great hobby and Ive been in it for years. I also see why its future nonexistence is predominantly our own doing.

 

[tinmantribe5]

Are you the creepy one being suggested?

 

[tinmantribe5]

Wanna picture of my House Dean Buddy Ill be your buddy............

 

[deborahbroadus]

What people here DONT realize, I never "asked" someone to take a pic. So this what I get from this thread so far, let me know I am wrong please. I will admit, I am in agreement with most of this but read what think about what everyone is saying...

No phone, no address, no pics of a tree in my front yard that they are ALREADY looking at on Google, nothing to secure a customers assurance that we are real on a high dollar deal that if it was a scam, they had no recourse getting the value of their trade back? Its no wonder why there are so many scammers in this industry as we give them so many outs.

When do we decide that our being paranoid is just that. I mean, I "try" not to do business on the phone for my own personal reasons. I wont let people come to my home to see my collection or buy something. All the while, I have no problems giving someone my address, especially in a trade as I have to at some point anyhow. I also have no problems taking a pic of a tree that is already shown on any satellite mapping search engine out there. I will even be kind enough to take the photo with a gun or dog or something that shows them I also mean business.

So it seems, if we are in business, we are truly not in the business of building customer confidence in ourselves. If it were me as a customer, I would personally feel that if I couldnt have some of this info, you wont be in the business of having something to sell or be able to service what you sell.

This is a great hobby and Ive been in it for years. I also see why its future nonexistence is predominantly our own doing.

I DO agree. But I also see what other people are trying to say now, and it has made me question whether we are going over board in customer service or paranoia? How does one recognize the line that separates healthy customer service from paranoia? Why is it that everyone that wants a picture of a "tree" or our "front door" may be a "dumb criminal?" This information is readily available through a variety of mediums. Why can't the fact that a CUSTOMER asked for the pic be viewed as a concerned customer trying not to be scammed by having us prove we do have access to what they ALREADY can see on Google?

Perhaps I am being naive (Harald knows I am the least trusting person)..but sometimes some lenghts that I see some going for "privacy" or "protection" are just pointless..same as the thread ranting about some buyers stating that they won't buy from anyone unless they can speak to them over the phone first.

IMO, refusing to take a pic to protect privacy is as much a non-issue to protecting anything as protecting oneself by insisting on speaking on the phone first before doing business with anyone... If the voices inside my head did not clearly outline my thoughts on this issue, blame the fact that my reception is skewed because my foil helmet has holes in it.


((off to spread some Karma around so I can give you more!))

 

[chamgirl99471]

If someone wants me to take a picture of my house from the street... No Problem.. Whatever they are able to see on Google or any other map for that matter is a non-issue therefore I am happy to provide the image for them as long as I have a camera to do the work.. lol... Privacy for me is Very Important as we also collect Native American Artifacts.. some of which are a lot more expensive then the animals that I carry therefore I CANNOT (according to the hubby) allow people to come to my door!! I have to respect his wishes because in all due respect.. he does own this house... It's his domain and privacy is very important to him!!

I pride myself on my customer service and even though I've sold animals a month or two ago.. I still contact the buyers just to make sure all is OK. I'm in this for a hobby but am trying my darndest to make a Good Impact on the reptile industry!! At some point in time.. when my son is well again and I can get out in the game... I'm going to go to Expos and hopefully a few years down the road start up my own little reptile store in the community! I go to schools and do programs for the kids so that they will learn to respect the animals in our area and also to show them that reptiles are not bad!!

Just my .02

 

[sschind]

I'd send them this picture

 

[tinmantribe5]

You are starting out on a good set of Ideas and Morals I wish you and your family the Best of luck on Impacting our Hobby!
Oops ment to put your name Catherine

 

[Southern Wolf]

Dean... let me better clairy my stance.

Yes... I know my address is easy to find (if you know where and how to look). NO Im not giving it out to just anybody that asks.

Sure... If I send you a package it will be there... its part of the business, but if someone says hey... I want to buy one of your snakes, whats your addresss. Wait till the box arrives.

Therefore if we have not already done business and your looking at my place on google earth or where ever.... then your a stalker. You dug very deep to find me.

Here is the part your not seeing from my point of view. Im in law enforcement... and I make enemies. It comes with the job. There is no way around it. If I have NOT givin you my addy and your asking about things in my front yard then that is an immediate red flag for me.... and its over with. I dont care what the price of the sale or trade is. You can call me paranoid if ya like.... but I call it self preservation.... I have to... with what I do for a living.

As to your deal.... maybe you had givin him your addy before the request and he looked you up. That in of itself would kinda freak me out, but if he had your addy before the request was made then I could see why you would be willing to honor the request.

Your talking about the trade/sale amount... let me throw this out there at ya. Last year I had a HUGE part of my leo collection up for sale (in the range your talking about.... and due to the qunaity I wanst selling retail $$$) and a guy contacts me to do a trade. With my brain... Im already cautious about this one because of the amount of the leos Im parting with. He told me what he had and I responded back and told him I really didnt need what he had but would be interested in seeing some photos. He provided me with the photos and on one of them that didnt need turned into a gotta have. I told him that I would go thru with the deal if he shipped first and the animal arrived as described and pictured. If he would have asked me to walk outside and take a pic.... I would have killed the deal and would still be feeding a whole bunch of leos. Here's the kicker though.... thanks to the shipping company.... the animal I was getting got to take the scenic tour of the country and arrived a day later... the whole time me and the other guy were going back and forth on the phone trying to keep each other updated. Turns out he is in law enforcment as well.... but I still would have killed the deal... and I guarantee you he would have understood. The reason I know this is because one of the times I called he was on the job working and there was no denying what I heard in the background. I myself hear it daily.

Anyhow... hope you can see my point of view.

 

[Shadera]

Here is the part your not seeing from my point of view. Im in law enforcement... and I make enemies. It comes with the job. There is no way around it. If I have NOT givin you my addy and your asking about things in my front yard then that is an immediate red flag for me.... and its over with. I dont care what the price of the sale or trade is. You can call me paranoid if ya like.... but I call it self preservation.... I have to... with what I do for a living.

That is exactly it, thank you. Although much more eloquently than I was putting it. I am prior law enforcement as well, and I am not so trusting of complete strangers. My address comes on that box, and not before. It doesn't make me paranoid or crazy to not be comfortable with what I see as stalker-ish behavior. If my reputation is not enough to make someone feel comfortable buying from me, then I doubt there is anything I can do. Pictures or otherwise.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

Dean... let me better clairy my stance.

Yes... I know my address is easy to find (if you know where and how to look). NO Im not giving it out to just anybody that asks.

Sure... If I send you a package it will be there... its part of the business, but if someone says hey... I want to buy one of your snakes, whats your addresss. Wait till the box arrives.

Therefore if we have not already done business and your looking at my place on google earth or where ever.... then your a stalker. You dug very deep to find me.

Here is the part your not seeing from my point of view. Im in law enforcement... and I make enemies. It comes with the job. There is no way around it. If I have NOT givin you my addy and your asking about things in my front yard then that is an immediate red flag for me.... and its over with. I dont care what the price of the sale or trade is. You can call me paranoid if ya like.... but I call it self preservation.... I have to... with what I do for a living.

As to your deal.... maybe you had givin him your addy before the request and he looked you up. That in of itself would kinda freak me out, but if he had your addy before the request was made then I could see why you would be willing to honor the request.

Your talking about the trade/sale amount... let me throw this out there at ya. Last year I had a HUGE part of my leo collection up for sale (in the range your talking about.... and due to the qunaity I wanst selling retail $$$) and a guy contacts me to do a trade. With my brain... Im already cautious about this one because of the amount of the leos Im parting with. He told me what he had and I responded back and told him I really didnt need what he had but would be interested in seeing some photos. He provided me with the photos and on one of them that didnt need turned into a gotta have. I told him that I would go thru with the deal if he shipped first and the animal arrived as described and pictured. If he would have asked me to walk outside and take a pic.... I would have killed the deal and would still be feeding a whole bunch of leos. Here's the kicker though.... thanks to the shipping company.... the animal I was getting got to take the scenic tour of the country and arrived a day later... the whole time me and the other guy were going back and forth on the phone trying to keep each other updated. Turns out he is in law enforcment as well.... but I still would have killed the deal... and I guarantee you he would have understood. The reason I know this is because one of the times I called he was on the job working and there was no denying what I heard in the background. I myself hear it daily.

Anyhow... hope you can see my point of view.

That is exactly it, thank you. Although much more eloquently than I was putting it. I am prior law enforcement as well, and I am not so trusting of complete strangers. My address comes on that box, and not before. It doesn't make me paranoid or crazy to not be comfortable with what I see as stalker-ish behavior. If my reputation is not enough to make someone feel comfortable buying from me, then I doubt there is anything I can do. Pictures or otherwise.

I do understand the law enforcement issue, I really do. However, regardless of how a trade works out, they will still get your address. This was a "ship to me first" deal. What am I supposed to do, not give them my address to ship me something? Do you not see where the trust factor lies? I could not tell someone relatively new to ship as a hold at Fedex or UPS so that I could pick it up without giving someone my not-so-personal info. Its not like he is asking for my social security number.

To give you both an example, on a trade with someone relatively new, do you ship first or do you receive first. When they tell you that they need the address to ship to you, what do you tell them, assuming you would be receiving first? Ship to the nearest hub for hold? That would be the only logical answer in your two specific cases. I personally would have an issue within a trade deal to only be able to ship to a hub without having some sort of information with the person that I am dealing with.

With the both of you, I would have no problems shipping first in a trade deal but I would not ship for hold at UPS without knowing who you are. I just happen to trust the two of you in a sense where that doesnt become an issue. I am all for privacy but I think sometimes we have to bend a little to satisfy a customers need for assurance.

 

[chamgirl99471]

First Off... Thank You Shawn I do what I can ... used to work at a zoo in High Springs and took kids on educational tours and Loved every minute of it... now that I have a 2 year old son.. I figured.. why not go around to the schools themselves and educate the children with animals that I have aquired ?

Second... Kevin... you hit the nail on the head in your post... exactly why I would feel kinda creepy if someone asked me to walk outside and take a photo... I see Dean's point of view as well... if someone is doing a trade.. yeah.. they will have to have my address... then they can look it up and see my house from the road.. (not much of it though because our yard is mostly Oak Trees, Palms and Bannan Trees) but if they want me to walk outside and take a picture from the road to prove that I live there... No problem. My name is not on the house or the phone so if someone looks my name up... they won't find me Privacy is a very big part of my life as I have several expensive artifacts and two children in my home