• In the past two days I have gotten emails asking about being requested to provide credit card info in order to register and also to make a post in the classifieds forums. PLEASE NOTE: In no instance will this site ask you for this sort of information. The only time any request for payment is made is if you choose to opt-in for a higher membership level, and that is done SOLELY through PayPal. Anything else is coming from a source other than this site. My guess is that this is coming through Google Adsense, but when I can get someone to send me a screen shot of this sort of request, I will know more.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Dr. Brad Minson (Bad Guy) - Advice Needed Please

L

LisaAnn

New member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
62
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
I'm new here, but need help pretty badly. Hopefully, I've spent enough time studying the rules and previous threads so I do this correctly!

My problem isn't from a reptile transaction - it's a malpractice and gross negligence claim I have against Dr. Brad Minson - a self-proclaimed reptile vet practicing at Oasis Animal Clinic in Chandler, Arizona. I took Tazzie, an adult bearded dragon, to him on July 7, 2003 for a mild case of constipation that wasn't responding to soaks and "home remedies". He wasn't seriously ill. I loved him dearly and didn't want to risk waiting until he was really sick before seeing a vet. Dr. Minson said Tazzie needed an enema and took him into a back room to do the procedure. I later learned that he somehow managed to puncture Tazzie's colon during the enema, but he claims not to have realized he did it.

What happened after he botched the enema is what elevates this from a "simple" mistake or malpractice issue to a horrible case of gross negligence (IMO). When he brought Tazzie back to me, he appeared unconscious - almost dead. His eyes were closed, his body was limp, and he was completely unresponsive. I immediately became gravely concerned and asked what had happened. He laughed off my concerns, pointed out Tazzie's black beard and told me that Tazzie was just "pissed off" from the unpleasant procedure. I was very upset - crying and insisting that something was horribly wrong, but he refused to take my concerns seriously. After about 15 minutes of trying in vain to get him to listen to me and help Tazzie, he made me leave with my still unconscious dragon.

Within an hour, Tazzie was slipping in and out of consciousness, having convulsions, writhing about in obvious agony and gasping for air. His belly was hard and bloated. Despite the fact that it was now around 6:00 pm and Oasis Animal Clinic didn't close until 8:00 pm, they refused to let me bring Tazzie back to get help. They told me to find an emergency animal hospital. Sure... there's just so many emergency animal hospitals open after hours with a qualified reptile vet on staff! I finally found a place to take him and the suffering he was experiencing during the ride to the clinic was absolutely horrific. The clinic visit didn't go well, but by then, it was too late anyway. The on-duty vet tried to get Dr. Minson to come in and try to save Tazzie, but he refused. Tazzie died a couple of hours after arriving at the clinic.

I've had a horrible time dealing with this - with depression, post traumatic stress disorder, severe nightmares, panic attacks, and more. I talked to the owner of Oasis Animal Clinic the day after Tazzie died and explained what happened. He offered to reimburse me for my vet bills, but that never happened. I've tried to resolve this since then, but it's such an emotionally charged issue, I just couldn't go through with it. Finally, I made an appointment and met with the owner of the clinic on December 16, 2003. I gave him a letter I had written that detailed what I had gone through because of Dr. Minson's actions and I asked for a $6000 payment as compensation. He balked at the amount, refused to even discuss an alternative amount that he found acceptable, and took back his offer to reimburse me for the vet bills and necropsy.

A few days ago, I got a letter from Dr. Minson's malpractice insurance carrier. They say "it is unclear on what basis you are asserting a claim for malpractice. We request you provide our office with a written veterinary professional opinion to support your contention that the care and treatment rendered by Dr. Minson was below the standard of care. Upon receipt of this information, we will review and advise of our position of liability."

What do they want? Sure... I can get a copy of the necropsy report sent to them to prove that my Tazzie died because Dr. Minson punctured his colon. But how do I "prove" what happened afterward? If Dr. Minson doesn't know the difference between an angry beardie and an unconscious beardie, he obviously is not a qualified reptile vet and shouldn't be treating reptiles without additional training. Sending an unconscious animal home after a minor procedure doesn't seem to be anywhere near a responsible "standard of care". What do I do now? Can anyone please help me understand what I need to do next? I cannot afford a lawyer. I talked to one a while ago and he explained that animal malpractice cases are difficult and rarely result in damage awards more than the actual amount of damages suffered because animals are considered "property". He said that sending him home unconscious however, elevates this to another level and makes it more likely that I would prevail on pain and suffering type damages. Even if I had the money for a lawyer, however, I don't really want to keep re-living this tragedy during a long, drawn out legal battle.

I don't mean to sound like I am trying to just get a lot of money out of this. It isn't about the money and it isn't about trying to take advantage of anyone. It's about holding this butcher accountable for what he did and trying to prevent it from happening again. He took several years of happy memories and replaced them with horrible visions of those last few hours - helplessly cradling my baby while he died an unnecessary, unimaginably painful death. Any help or advice will be sincerely appreciated.


I really appreciate your time. I know this is long and believe it or not, I've cut out a lot and tried to be brief! If anyone has any questions or wants to know any of the details that I cut out, please let me know. If necessary, I can get a copy of the necropsy report. I haven't wanted to see it - it's so very painful - but if it would be helpful, I'll have them send me a copy and I'll post it.

Thanks again,
Lisa Arnold
Scottsdale, AZ
[email protected]
 
Lisa

Well not meaning to sound uncaring but unless you have the funds to tackle a insurance carrier by obtaining a lawyer who would even take the case the best thing to do is make sure people know what happened and let it go. You most likely would never get $6k in damages on a reptile esp no offense a low dollar amount beardie.Even if you did have the funds to secure a lwayer you would spend IMo more then $6k in fees as the insurance carrier/ vet would most likely drag the case out for years with the foresight that a average person wouldnt be able to fight that long or either go directly to court and have it dimissed by saying your husbandry was the casue for the needed treatment that caused the ruptured colon.I recently had a $650.00 snake killed by a vet and truley wanted to persue legal actions but took a step back and relized my fight would be futile in pursuing legal actions since the cost to do so would outweigh the rewards if any i got ... a lawyer would only take a case like this out of pure ignorance on a % basis and would want full payment up front meaning if they said $2k to take the case and it went 6 months - 1 year they were paid wether you won or lost the case ...

so i would say to you let this be ahard learned lesson and just dont give the vet any more repeat buisness find a new vet and keep on trucking .. sorry for your loss but the battle at hand would be like David VS Goliath
 
if what you are saying is true,maye you can contact a news station , theres a local guy around here call the troubleshooter, who goes around and trys to fix things like contractors takeing money and not doing there job, pretty much helps people whos backs are against the wall. it couldnt help to try, troubleshooter , problem solvers somthing like that. and send the insurance place the statement saying that the first vet basicly killed your beardie. and wouldnt help you after. theres alot of money to be made by falsely saying your a pro herp vet, maybe you should ask him what exaclty makes him a reptile vet. and call a lawer, most of the time they will give you a free concilation. and alot of lawers will take a case and not recive payment if they fail to win. you have alot of options, try and find people who have been threw a similar problem
 
I would have to agree with Alan. Its completely unfair in this case. However, the best thing you can do is find another more reputable reptile vet rather than pursue an uphill battle. Even then, you may find that you know more about certain things than even your vet. You are within your rights to question each procedure and assess the risks. If you do not feel comfortable with the prognosis, you can refuse that treatment.

Hope this helps. Sorry for your loss.

Jeff Craven
www.houseofserpents.com
 
Take him to small claims court and represent yourself. call up the animale planet court show, you cant just sit there and eat this! he killd your dragon, who knows if you didnt bring him to the vet your beardie might have been better off. and just becuse it wasnt worth much as retail value if you cared anough about it to take it to the vet , it is a dear pet to you. dont take this lieing down. go to the vet office and set up a meeting in person, if he refuses stand out front by the door with a sighn saying
"Dr. Minson killd my pet" that will get you some attention. if i where in your area I would go stand out front with you
 
Vince

if he refuses stand out front by the door with a sighn saying "Dr. Minson killd my pet" that will get you some attention
Click to expand...

That would most certainly get attention , but with a badge and handcuffs.

I admire your intent but you have to look at the situation with open eyes . Yes the procedure may have very well caused the ruptured colon.If you really want to be of help i wouldnt advise someone to do something that will surely have them jailed or fined heavily. Im not adoctore but i dont know if there is a distinguishable difference between a Vetenarin degree and one for reptiles , ALOT of vets practice on reptiles by choice because they have a interest in them and want to help. Just becasue there a Vet doesnt mean that they cant legally practice medicine on reptiles.Possibly by getting a news reporter involved may do more harm then good i dont know i highly doubt the vet in question is just going to say " oh im sorry let me pay you an absorbent amount of money for your lizard.it would likely just inforce why there are so few truely knowledgeable vets that work with reptiles and cause problems of another kind with news media involved as to help promote vultures like PETA to get involved and say SEE THATS WHY REPTILES SHOULD BE BANNED in the wild that animals would have not been subjected to medical treatment to cause that problem .
again i am truely sorry for your loss but i think education is best and lessons learned are the best way to deal with a future incident. i mean we have to ask and im not goingto re read the entire post to find it but what was the substrate? could it have been impaction ? and the enema caused a impacted substrate to rupture the colon? how long was the lizard constipated ? many things can be looked at here but surely the best is to learn from it
 
If you are confident that your vet's negligence caused the death of your bearded dragon and your necropsy report supports this then I would consider filing a formal complaint with the Arizona State Veterinary Medical Board. I don't doubt your claims but before you go after someone's livelihood just make sure you are dealing with facts and not just emotions.
http://www.vetbd.state.az.us/complaints.html
Most small animal veterinarians make the majority of their income treating dogs and cats. Some decide to accept reptile clients without doing any continuing education in reptile medicine. I think that some view reptiles as disposable pets (like a hamster or hermit crab) that aren't really worth investing the time and money to learn about. At the very least, maybe you'll give this guy enough headaches so that he stops accepting reptile clients altogether.
 
I dont know, do what you wish, but if this "dr" killed my pet I would do everything i can. and as far as peta THESE ARE CAPTIVE BORN REPTILES, when the hell was there ever an imported bearded dragon in the last 10 years. sounds like you are backing up this vet who is at fault for killing the beardie. I know maybe you should just live and learn right? thats crazy! you took your pet to the vet becuse it was sick, and the vet ended up accidently killing it! if it was a dog or cat this vet would be shelling out money till the cows came home, and would want to keep it under wrapes so his credibility would not suffer, go to the vet, ask only for a date that you two can sit down and discuss everything, get all your paper work in order and meet with him. and if he refuses to meet tell him you have no other choice but to contact the news, and or a lawer about it. This kind of stuff doesnt happen everyday. and like i said if you took you dog in for constipation and later that day it was dead due to the fault of the vet they would burn the office to the ground, how is this differnt
 
I'm sorry your beardie died. However, the most I could see you hoping to get from an insurance claim of malpractice is the fair market value of the animal plus whatever out of pocket expenses you incurred. I sincerely doubt you are going to get any punitive damages, or anything for you "emotional distress."

Quite frankly, there isn't a jury in the world that is going to understand your attachment to a reptile, and it only hardens the hearts of those who otherwise might be sympathetic to you, when they hear you speak of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as if it were an actual disgnosed situation with which you are now dealing. If you were diagnosed with PTSD from the death of a Bearded Dragon, I would think you might have a better claim against your Psychiatrist than your vet.

Beyond all of this, with all due respect to you and your pet, there is no way I could justify giving PETA and the other groups like them an avenue to attack the herp community over the loss of a dozen individual animals, let alone just one. So, I would not do anything to attract media attention. If there are not civil avenues available to you to collect your specific out of pocket expenses, I'm afraid I would just chalk it up as a lesson learned and try to see the big picture.

Sorry again about your loss, though!
 
I agree, You should not look to profit from this event. get you money of the pet and the cost of the vet bills. theres no argument about it , the vet needs to pay those amounts.
 
a necropsy report should suffice.

If the belly was punctured......It would be obvious that the animal will die without proper treatment
 
It sounds like they may have worked with you until you told them you wanted $6000. I can certainly understand you wanting to be paid back for the expenses and the value of the animal but $6000 seems rediculous. I wouldn't have paid it either. Try to talk to them again without all the add-ons and see if they'll rectify the situation. Good luck.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. The malpractice issue is going to be a tough one. I'm not an attorney but I believe that you have to prove gross negligence. Basically that the vet did something unorthodox or not what all other vets would do. The perforation of the colon is not gross negigence, because that is part of the risks and consequences of the procedure. Your best approach for gross negligence would be when he gave you a lethargic animal. Mistakes happen but he should have been upfront with you and came up with some sort of corrective action.

Good Luck,
Tony B
 
thanks - and to answer some questions...

Thanks for all the advice. Some of it is a little hard to hear, but honest opinions from people experienced with reptiles is what I want and need so I can make an informed decision on how - or indeed, if - I should proceed from here. I am way too emotionally involved in this to make rational decisions, so I really appreciate your advice.

As for some of the questions:
The substrate in Tazzie's cage was sand - and I know all about impaction issues. He wasn't fed in that cage, he was fed on rabbit pellets or just a dish on the floor. He spent very little time in his cage - he spent a lot of time outside in the sun, and the rest of his time was spent on my shoulder or in a couple of his favorite places around the house. Also, he had a complete checkup in April of 2003 by his previous vet and was deemed in perfect health - x-ray showed no impaction, no signs of sand in his body, no MBD or other bone problems, etc., bloodwork was good, fecal was good, weight and physical exam were good. Also, an x-ray the night he died showed no signs of sand or an impaction and the necropsy also found no indications of sand or an impaction.

The vet doing the necropsy (Dr. Richard Funk, an apparently good and experienced reptile vet) called me on July 8 after completing the necropsy and told me that he found no indications of illness or signs of poor husbandry and that Tazzie appeared to be in good health except for the punctured colon and resulting infection. He found some fecal matter and cricket parts loose in Tazzie's body and said there was no longer any signs of constipation.

My previous vet was Dr. Kiedrowski, who, I've been told, has the reputation of being one of the top reptile vets in the Phoenix area. I switched to Dr. Minson after a referral from a local pet store. In retrospect, it was a very bad decision that I have since rectified, but at the time, I thought Dr. Minson was ok, he was a lot closer and more convenient because the clinic he worked at was open from 7:30 am to 8:00 pm M-F and 8 to 5 on Sat. I had planned to use Dr. Minson for minor problems and Dr. Kiedrowski for serious problems, but that sure was a huge mistake. I now drive the hour and 15 minutes to see Dr. Kiedrowski for any problems.

As for the PTSD - that actually was formally diagnosed by my doctor, but I realize that I'm probably on a "slippery slope" on that issue. I am disabled and fighting a potentially life-threatening illness. Sometimes things get pretty bad and I use my pets to help me deal with pain and get through the day. I currently have about 35 geckos and lizards of various types, but Tazzie was my first and held a really special place in my heart. He is the whole reason for my love of reptiles. When I felt really bad, I would lay in bed and Tazzie would often "cuddle" on my neck and shoulder - making it a little easier to get through the bad time. Having to cradle this little guy in my arms and watch helplessly as he suffered through such a horrific death was made even more painful because of my own somewhat unique situation. Because of my own suffering, I related much too closely with Tazzie's suffering and that is the probable cause of the PTSD. Since the PTSD had a lot to do with my pre-existing health condition, I suppose it's somewhat unfair to blame it all on Dr. Minson, but that's just where I'm at right now.

Thanks again for all your advice and condolences. I hope I have cleared up some questions. I really appreciate all the time and effort everyone is putting into this - especially since I am so knew to this forum.

By the way. I'm not trying to seek outrageous damages. I am not demanding the full $6000. It was just a starting point and I told him so. I asked him to tell me a figure he thought was reasonable, but he declined - wanting the insurance company to deal with it. I'm very willing to accept less - it's not just about the money.

Thanks again,
Lisa

Lisa Arnold
Scottsdale, AZ
[email protected]
 
I agree with the others that you're probably not going to get much of a settlement. If it's more about priciple than money, I would still suggest filing a complaint with the Arizona State Veterinary Medical Board.
This one incident wont get his license pulled but it will start a paper trail. If he continues to practice poor quality veterinary medicine he may rack up more complaints and eventually face disciplinary action. Also, any future clients who research his record before selecting a vet will have your complaint to help them make a better selection.
Sorry to hear about your loss.
 
Bad situation

First of all, I am very sorry for your loss. Pets can become close to our hearts, regardless of species, and it is always tough to lose one.

As far as the situation with the DVM, as has been previously mentioned, I would also suggest that you file a formal complaint with the state board. While you will not receive any compensation for doing so, there will be black mark against that particular veterinarian in thought and there will likely be an "official" note made in the event of future issues with other clients.

Financially, I cannot see any DVM practice taking you seriously when you ask for $6,000 in compensation for the loss of a bearded dragon. There are multiple reasons for this, the most notable of which Darin Chappell indicated. However, if you are absolutely insistent about receiving some form of payment for your suffering, then it may be wise to settle for the purchase price of your pet along with any medical expenses incurred from this ordeal.

Would it be possible to post your necroscopy report? While it may say to you that the Dr. Minson is 100% responsible for the loss of your pet, that may be an emotional interpretation and the blame may not technically be able to fall on any one person's shoulders. If it does not state within the report that the degradation of the bearded dragon was due to the treatment administered by your vet, there may not be anything legally that you can do.

Concerning any future involvement with the practice's owner, Dr. Minson, his staff, or insurance company, I would suggest that you leave out claims such that your pet was suffering "unimaginable agony." While you may believe this down to your core and it may very well be true, it will not hold up under scrutiny.

Finally, if you were sincerely refused treatment by Dr. Minson and his staff, it would be a good idea to get documentation of such. It would also be great to have a written statement from the emergency clinic that handled your case stating that Dr. Minson would not take part in your bearded dragon's aftercare so close to administering treatment at his office.

Once again, I am very sorry for your loss and I hope that this works out in your favor.

Best of luck,

Lauren Rost
 
By asking $6,000, I feel that you may have shot yourself in the foot. The only things that would be compensable are the fair market value of another bearded dragon, and perhaps the cost of the visit. Emotional distress pertaining to the loss of property (which is what a pet is generally considered by the law to be) is usually noncompensable.

A more realistic claim would have been in the neighborhood of $150-300, depending on the cost of the visit.
 
I guess you're right...

By choosing the $6000 figure, I meant to show him how serious this was and try to prevent future reptiles from suffering the same fate. By choosing so much however, I guess I accomplished the opposite and came across all wrong. I'm going to file the complaint with the AZ Vet Board, so hopefully I can still accomplish something.

The vet bills, by the way, were $498.25

I will also post the necropsy report as soon as I get it. Hopefully I can get it faxed to me tomorrow. The verbal report from the vet who did the necropsy was hard enough to hear and I didn't want to see all the details, but if I choose to do this, then I can't exactly wimp out on something important like the report.

Thanks again,
Lisa

Lisa Arnold
Scottsdale, AZ
[email protected]
 
You could stipulate that the $6,000 was to go to a wildlife fund, rescue operation in your state and that might alleviate the exxcessive amount asked for.
 
In Memory of Tazzie

Lisa,

Please do follow up with the Arizona Veterinarian Licensing Board. They have their own disciplinary procedures.

Like it wasn't bad enough that this vet punctured the colon, but where this vet went wrong, is that he ignored your pleas that something was wrong. As the owner, you know the behaviors of your animal the best. You told him immediately that something was wrong. According to you, it was very obvious that something was wrong. He said that there wasn't. You went home and tried to get in to see him again that same day. The clinic would not see you. You took Tazzie to another vet, who tried to deal with Minion, and he STILL would not respond. That is where the gross negligence comes in. You told him that there was a problem and he ignored your pleas. It happens all the time with doctors, they have their own egos to feed and everyone else is stupid.

I suggest that you talk to that attorney again and see who else will handle animal cases. Most attorneys know something about the others in the county and he can get you a referral to another attorney who handles animal cases. They will probably take it on a percentage basis if you have a case. If you are real lucky and they are a big enough animal lover, they might even take it Pro bono.

As for your emotional distress over Tazzie's loss, it is not so much that the situation was overwhelming, but that you are not responding in a healthy way with your grief. We all have losses in our lives, and how we choose to respond and move on from them is what makes the difference. You have to come to the realization that this was a most unfortunate, very upsetting time in Tazzie's and your lives, but now it is time to move on with your grief. Tazzie would not want you having emotional problems from this and he would only want you to remember him for all the happiness and comfort that he brought you. Not for the last few hours that he was here. I can honestly say that I have been through this kind of grief before, but I only remember the happy times now.

I wish you only the best in finding closure for Tazzie.

Sincerely,

J. Melissa McQuaid
 
Back
Top