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Dragons Den Herp (INFO)

Kevin,
I have not researched all in the thread, but Seamus pointed out that you have a clause that does not allow return of the animal due to color dissatisfaction ? If that is not correct, accept my apologies. If it is true of you, or any other entity who sells with such a clause, much less without a satisfaction guarantee, then I would have to agree with Seamus, and then some. I would recommend to all who read here not to do business with anyone with such an absurd clause. I would recommend that a retail buyer does not buy from anyone without a no-questions-asked (NQA) satisfaction guarantee. It need only be of 24 hour duration, with the customer paying all return shipping, but you have no business vending reptiles if this is the case. Raise your prices 10% etc, if there is a cost to absorb there. On the upside, in the God blessed capitalist competitive market we all survive in, it will make you better.
 
dden said:
When I added saturation to #3, it was to try and match the color chart in my hand to the color chart in the picture...in other words, trying to make the red, orange, yellow, match the same colors on the chart. I figured that, by showing the color on the chart as close to "true" as possible, that would mean that the color on the dragon was also portrayed accurately. I may not be correct in thinking that, but at least it is worth mentioning...
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I think that you should stop trying to match your dragons colour to a man-made chart. it's misrepresentation IMO, and, judging by the way your guarantee is worded, it is in yours too.
 
Regarding color: We expect animals from certain bloodlines to look similar in color to their parents, but It is impossible for us to know exactly what an animal will look as it ages. There are many variables involved in determining a lizard’s color, including light, temperature, mood, color of the enclosure, etc. Because of this, we can not guarantee how a particular lizard will look as it grows and ages.


The above is the portion of Kevins guarantee regarding colour.
 
Kevins regarding color statement is 100% true.I have breed geckos for 10 years now and still to this day i am not 100% sure how SOME of the baby's will turn out as the age,no one can.
I have known Kevin for many years and bought geckos from him and they allways looked better than the pic.may be not that day but when they were happy in there new home HELL ya.
Kevin is a good guy allways will be.How do we know the person is keeping the dragons they way Kevin did or for that the right way.

Kevin keep up the good work.You are a brother at hart.

The Ground Gecko Freak
Jodi L Aherns
 
Jodi L Aherns said:
Kevins regarding color statement is 100% true.I have breed geckos for 10 years now and still to this day i am not 100% sure how SOME of the baby's will turn out as the age,no one can.
I have known Kevin for many years and bought geckos from him and they allways looked better than the pic.may be not that day but when they were happy in there new home HELL ya.
Kevin is a good guy allways will be.How do we know the person is keeping the dragons they way Kevin did or for that the right way.

Kevin keep up the good work.You are a brother at hart.

The Ground Gecko Freak
Jodi L Aherns
Click to expand...
Just because a dragon might color up, doesn't mean that it will, and therefore should not be presented in it's theoretically possible colors by image alteration.

The most a breeder can do, is give accurate unaltered, and correctly white-balanced photos of parents, previous clutches by the same parents, siblings in the same clutch, and the original dragon itself. Then let customers make their own decisions based upon factual information.

Presenting a dragon to customers as the color that they could possibly turn out to be, unless it is guaranteed to turn out that color is fraud, plain and simple.
 
Something that hasn't been mentioned in regards to a reason why adjusting color is a no-no...

All screens are not calibrated the same which means that not all people will view the exact same shades of color when looking at the exact same picture. So while Dragon's Den is adjusting the color of their photos (significantly) to suit what on their screen represents the "true" color of the dragon, it can look completely different on another screen.

There is no excuse to adjust colors, period. If you take the photos properly they will represent the true color (or as close as you're going to get with screen) of the animals in question.
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
Something that hasn't been mentioned in regards to a reason why adjusting color is a no-no...

All screens are not calibrated the same which means that not all people will view the exact same shades of color when looking at the exact same picture. So while Dragon's Den is adjusting the color of their photos (significantly) to suit what on their screen represents the "true" color of the dragon, it can look completely different on another screen.

There is no excuse to adjust colors, period. If you take the photos properly they will represent the true color (or as close as you're going to get with screen) of the animals in question.
Click to expand...

This is true. Perhaps on Kevin's computer screen the dragons look realistic. On my computer screen they look neon-bright and obviously tampered with. When I post pictures (all of which are unaltered) of my own dragons for sale, there is a big difference in color from computer to computer. They look great on my computer, and very dark on my husband's laptop. It is frustrating, but I have accept that it is just going to happen that way.
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
Something that hasn't been mentioned in regards to a reason why adjusting color is a no-no...

All screens are not calibrated the same which means that not all people will view the exact same shades of color when looking at the exact same picture. So while Dragon's Den is adjusting the color of their photos (significantly) to suit what on their screen represents the "true" color of the dragon, it can look completely different on another screen.

There is no excuse to adjust colors, period. If you take the photos properly they will represent the true color (or as close as you're going to get with screen) of the animals in question.
Click to expand...

I agree. I have a 6 yr old point and shoot olympus I use to take pics, and it frequently doesn't portray colors accurately. However, I say this in the pic caption, and do not alter the pictures.

I think what Kevin did here is an extreme misrepresentation. If they're as bright as you say they are, then just say: "Pics don't do the animal justice" and don't alter them. If they're as great as you say they are, then you shouldn't have to worry about it.

Plus the wording in your "guarantee" just makes the thing seem fishy. Altering pics and then saying that they can't be returned for misinterpretation is absurd. It appears that you may have tried to intentionally scam unsuspecting customers.
 
Seamus Haley said:
Therein lies the problem. The guarantee as written specifically prohibits refunds being issued over color "misinterpretation" Combine that with a dealer who is manipulating the color saturation and hue of photographs and you have arrived at what can only be described as deception. When the photos are tampered with, it is not a misinterpretation on the part of the buyer, who was passive in the determination, but misrepresentation by a lying, scamming dealer- who was actively altering the photos to mislead the buyer.

What Kevin is doing is no more correct or acceptable than the garbage that Vince Russello tried to pull a few years back.
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:iagree:

If this manipulation was done and actually portrayed the dragon's accurately, there is NO reason the "orange" dragon Raul got looks like he does. A nice dragon? Sure. A day-glo, fluorescent orange dragon? Not hardly. I don't care what kind of heat or light you put him under, he will never look like the altered picture.
 
..well my friend ordered a dragon from him on the tail nip special and got the most beautiful yellow i've EVER seen...stress causes even the prettiest dragons to look dull i have around 20 and they dnt always look beautiful....even the best dragons look ugly in bad conditions...maybe your doing something wrong :) ps dnt get all mad just trying to help
 
oh if you want to know the truth go to you tube type in bearded dragons hatching go to one that ses sandfire hatching and click on there profile...view all vids and look for dragon arrival from dragons den....i'll just post it tomorrow;)
 
swineb2 said:
oh if you want to know the truth go to you tube type in bearded dragons hatching go to one that ses sandfire hatching and click on there profile...view all vids and look for dragon arrival from dragons den....i'll just post it tomorrow;)
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I don't need a video to see the truth, I can just look at my beardie in his tank.

I addressed my husbandry earlier in this thread, on post #13 to be exact.


It's been almost a month now, and he has not become the dragon he was sold to be, color wise. Kevin said that what he sent was his best, and if that's true it's safe to say that if you buy a Blood Dragon from Kevin, you'll most likely be very disappointed.

I would like to thank the support of many of the members of this forum, this has been a stressful purchase. I am disappointed that some members feel it is okay to knowingly misrepresent bearded dragon photos. I do understand that things like white balance may need to be adjusted in photos, however when you change the color to the extent that brown looks red that is :NoNo:

At this point I'll just love the dragon I have, even if it's more brown then red. I hope from all this it shows that you can't trust some breeders like Dragon's Den (even if they have a seemly good record.)
 
sry to hear you were one of the few who has had bad exp with dden .....i would be more then happy to take that dragon off your hands....i have seen some nice shit from there ?¿?¿
 
Christopher- I've called you several times and offered you a full refund, but you have not responded. I have sent several emails offering a full refund, but you have not responded to them. If you are not happy with your dragon, send it back. As I told you before, I would love to have that dragon back because I know how colorful it was when I picked him out and packaged him. I know how he should look if he is housed properly. If he is not showing color to his full potential it is most likely a husbandry issue. Why don't you send me a picture of your dragon's cage and maybe I can help you figure out a way to improve it and make the true colors show? I have been breeding and selling Bearded Dragons for 1/3 of my life and I have never had a dissapointed customer that I did not work with to straighten things out. I do everything I can to make sure my customers are happy. Unfortunately, there are some people who will never be happy, no matter what I offer to do to rectify the situation. I will even pay the full shipping amount to have you send the dragon back to me...just let me know and I'll send you a prepaid shipping label.
 
Well, I have to say that the nicest bearded dragon I have ever seen in person or in a photo I got from Kevin. He sent me an awesome female Blood Red subadult that was in fact, "blood red". She was freaking awesome.

Christopher, Kevin is offering you a full refund with shipping, which he rightfully should if you are not happy. Why not take him up on it? I would, if I was unhappy.
 
I was about to ask ....

the very same thing, Kelli. Kevin did offer a full refund AND return shipping is on him. If the dragon is not what you expected, nor wanted, then why not just send it back and accept the refund?

You started this thread because you are unhappy. Kevin is trying to rectify that. Accept his offer and then get the dragon you really want.

~ Laura Bolt
 
swineb2 said:
i think some people are just unhappy ppl and are unsatisfied no matter what
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I think that i'd be disappointed if i thought i was going to get a vivid red dragon, only for it to look faded and washed out compared to the picture. If i was that unhappy, i'd have taken the refund as soon as it was mentioned.
 
In post #1 Christopher said that Kevin was not offering to pay return shipping

mademperor said:
I asked him to make this right and after while he said he'd return my money if I paid to send him back and that he wouldn't cover that. He also said that I'd need to send it back like it came, which would be next day air.
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It wasn't until his post yesterday that Kevin posted that he would now pay for return shipping. I haven't seen Christopher post since then so maybe before saying he is "just unhappy ppl and are unsatisfied no matter what" you should give him time to respond to Kevin's offer. :confused:
 
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