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DTS herps (Bad Experience)

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You guys are right.

I thought this out a bit today and agree that the terms could be confused and unspecific.

After seeing so many pages and lines of other folks terms over the years, it distracted me as a consumer and I thought so many wordy terms meant someone wanted an out excuse, so did not wish to impress that. I wanted to make a term about live arrival guarantee, not placing the word refund or credit behind it to avoid folks who might scam.

As experienced so far, most people ordering frogs seem to be hobby folk and I have been scammed before or attempted to be scammed, so leaving the window open for interpretation is risky so I need to change my terms when shipping risky amphibians. Although I must admit I have shipped thousands of frogs and only a very few, like 4-6 have died in hundreds of orders.

But I enjoy making people folk happy and admit I made a mistake.

I am going to ship her 5 beautiful frogs at my cost and offer my apology to her for being bothered to go this far and to and those who spent much time making constructive comments.

Dan
 
Dan Scolaro said:
You guys are right.

I thought this out a bit today and agree that the terms could be confused and unspecific.

After seeing so many pages and lines of other folks terms over the years, it distracted me as a consumer and I thought so many wordy terms meant someone wanted an out excuse, so did not wish to impress that. I wanted to make a term about live arrival guarantee, not placing the word refund or credit behind it to avoid folks who might scam.

As experienced so far, most people ordering frogs seem to be hobby folk and I have been scammed before or attempted to be scammed, so leaving the window open for interpretation is risky so I need to change my terms when shipping risky amphibians. Although I must admit I have shipped thousands of frogs and only a very few, like 4-6 have died in hundreds of orders.

But I enjoy making people folk happy and admit I made a mistake.

I am going to ship her 5 beautiful frogs at my cost and offer my apology to her for being bothered to go this far and to and those who spent much time making constructive comments.

Dan
Good thinking and well done.

IF you feel it necessary, having had so few losses over the years, be sure to re-write your TOS to cover EVERYTHING you want it to and not leave it saying one thing to you and another to your customers.
 
Good to hear.
Like Wes said, you can amend your TOS for future deals to cover things like this. As long as you are specific as to what entails live arrival, you will be able to avoid this in the future.
Stating live arrival without having examples of what would void that can cause problems.
Your TOS should be an ever evolving document.

I had to add something to mine a few years ago that I never would have thought was needed until the situation arose. Now I have it in my TOS to prevent me from taking a bath if it ever happens again.

From my TOS

No packages will be shipped until a destination address is confirmed in writing via email. The buyer is responsible for providing a correct shipping address. Seller assumes no responsibility for the loss or delay of a shipment if the buyer confirms an incorrect shipping address. Live arrival is not guarenteed if the confirmed address is incorrect or incomplete.
 
Dan, here's the TOS I use. Feel free to chop it up to suit your needs. I think it's pretty good.

Terms of Service and Guarantee

Unless otherwise stated all snakes will be eating on their own, properly sexed and outwardly healthy when shipped

Live arrival is Guaranteed ONLY if there is someone at the location, provided to us by the buyer, to sign for the snake(s) on the FIRST delivery attempt. If there is not a signature, for whatever reason, the live arrival guarantee is voided. Delivery is by Fed-ex, UPS or Delta Dash, buyers choice. Buyer pays all shipping expenses unless otherwise agreed to in writing prior to shipping.

Payment is by paypal to ........., USPS Money Order, or Personal check. ALL checks will be held until they clear before any snakes are shipped.

YOU are responsible for knowing your local laws and regulations regarding the ownership of getula species.

We recommend taking photos of the box your snakes are delivered in prior to opening, during opening and then pictures of your snakes right out of the box. This protects you and us in the event of a shipping mishap.

We also recommend that if you specifically ordered a male or female that YOU verify sex upon arrival. If proof of incorrect sex is provided within 3 days of arrival the snake will be replaced with proper sex if available or payment refunded at buyers option. Calkings.com will pay approved shipping charges if an error is made by us. If we messed up we won’t charge you to make it right. Photo documentation is mandatory.

We have over 30 years of snake keeping experience and will be happy to help you with any problems you may have with a snake you purchase from us. Please call or even better email us the day you get your snakes and let us know how they are and if you have any questions at all.

If your mom or dad, and we won’t knowingly sell to minors, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, roommate or landlord says NO once your new snake(s) arrive…..too bad. You will not be refunded your purchase price. You MAY be able to ship your snake(s) back to us at YOUR expense, but there will be NO refunds for your lack of due diligence prior to your purchase. Think BEFORE you buy.
 
Dan, I am glad to see you have decided to honor your gaurantee and I see you have amended your ads to avoid future misunderstandings. Please contact me via e-mail to discuss further details. I will repost here upon recieval of the frogs to let everyone know you honored your gaurantee. Thank you
 
Wilomn said:
Dan, here's the TOS I use. Feel free to chop it up to suit your needs. I think it's pretty good.

Terms of Service and Guarantee

Unless otherwise stated all snakes will be eating on their own, properly sexed and outwardly healthy when shipped

Live arrival is Guaranteed ONLY if there is someone at the location, provided to us by the buyer, to sign for the snake(s) on the FIRST delivery attempt. If there is not a signature, for whatever reason, the live arrival guarantee is voided. Delivery is by Fed-ex, UPS or Delta Dash, buyers choice. Buyer pays all shipping expenses unless otherwise agreed to in writing prior to shipping.

Payment is by paypal to ........., USPS Money Order, or Personal check. ALL checks will be held until they clear before any snakes are shipped.

YOU are responsible for knowing your local laws and regulations regarding the ownership of getula species.

We recommend taking photos of the box your snakes are delivered in prior to opening, during opening and then pictures of your snakes right out of the box. This protects you and us in the event of a shipping mishap.

We also recommend that if you specifically ordered a male or female that YOU verify sex upon arrival. If proof of incorrect sex is provided within 3 days of arrival the snake will be replaced with proper sex if available or payment refunded at buyers option. Calkings.com will pay approved shipping charges if an error is made by us. If we messed up we won’t charge you to make it right. Photo documentation is mandatory.

We have over 30 years of snake keeping experience and will be happy to help you with any problems you may have with a snake you purchase from us. Please call or even better email us the day you get your snakes and let us know how they are and if you have any questions at all.

If your mom or dad, and we won’t knowingly sell to minors, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, roommate or landlord says NO once your new snake(s) arrive…..too bad. You will not be refunded your purchase price. You MAY be able to ship your snake(s) back to us at YOUR expense, but there will be NO refunds for your lack of due diligence prior to your purchase. Think BEFORE you buy.
I had a request to use this from someone else.

Any of you feel free to use what you can of it if you like.

Just stick to what you write once you've written it. Better to overstate than ASSume something is obvious.
 
I do side with you on this, if they say live arrival guarentee with no stippilations, you are owed new frogs at no cost and thats that. Its his own fault if he didnt ellaborate on that guarentee.

Though I do see what he is saying about no one else will give you an at cost exchange, I have yet to see for myself someone that puts frogs under a live arrival, though in my eyes that doesnt make what he's doing right. As I see it he owes you 2 frogs.
 
Alisyn,
Have you not been reading this thread?
Dan AGREED to make this right on post #21.
It's over and done with.
 
Good to hear it worked out. I am currently working with Dan for the first time (Always a little nervous with my first purchase from people) so it's good to know he does the right thing.
 
lanceheads said:
Alisyn,
Have you not been reading this thread?
Dan AGREED to make this right on post #21.
It's over and done with.

Well... not exactly. It'll be over and done with when it's over and done with. Not when someone just says they'll make it right. He said he extended a guarantee to begin with and tried to sidestep that, I don't think it can be truly called "fixed" until restitution is actually made.
 
lanceheads said:
Alisyn,
Have you not been reading this thread?
Dan AGREED to make this right on post #21.
It's over and done with.


What Seamus said, AND the fact that people have the ability to read the first part of the thread, and respond. Happens. Not the end of the world. :rolleyes:
 
I read up on Dts's past

:iagree: cutting corners to save a buck on shipping is down rite rotten.
I was just reading sum old posts,where Dan was the topic,or if not had alot of non-sense to say. I read where he himself was bashing someone for shipping via usps,it was'nt frogs but was still a shipment via usps! I hope all goes well with your frogs,I too have a nice frog setup. I'd definitly take my bussiness elsewhere next time,after this experience,and just reading some of the werid outta left field speeches this Dan guy comes up with.


Jeff :thumbsup:
 
I just finished a good transaction with Dan. (this was my first time working with him) I wanted several of his snakes and it took me a little time to make up my mind but Dan was nothing but professional. He found a way to get my snakes to me at no charge (A friend of his heading my way) and just a few other things he did that were the right thing to do.

I think we all have made mistakes but in this case it appears Dan is or has done the right thing. Stuff happens but no reason to burn bridges as Dan stepped up and did the right thing here.
 
herperholic said:
:iagree: cutting corners to save a buck on shipping is down rite rotten.
I was just reading sum old posts,where Dan was the topic,or if not had alot of non-sense to say. I read where he himself was bashing someone for shipping via usps,it was'nt frogs but was still a shipment via usps! I hope all goes well with your frogs,I too have a nice frog setup. I'd definitly take my bussiness elsewhere next time,after this experience,and just reading some of the werid outta left field speeches this Dan guy comes up with.


Jeff :thumbsup:

Was that the thread where Dan was rightly upset someone shipped him a venomous snake USPS??

Pretty big difference from legally shipping frogs :angry:
 
herperholic said:
cutting corners to save a buck on shipping is down rite rotten.
I was just reading sum old posts,where Dan was the topic,or if not had alot of non-sense to say. I read where he himself was bashing someone for shipping via usps,it was'nt frogs but was still a shipment via usps! I hope all goes well with your frogs,I too have a nice frog setup. I'd definitly take my bussiness elsewhere next time,after this experience,and just reading some of the werid outta left field speeches this Dan guy comes up with.

Jeff

Lloyd Heilbrunn said:
Was that the thread where Dan was rightly upset someone shipped him a venomous snake USPS??

Pretty big difference from legally shipping frogs :angry:

Also, Jeff's second post on this site was to make a good guy post about that shipper who sent that venomous snake to Dan.
 
I appreciate many of the productive comments but due to a family emergency, I will have to issue a refund as I won't be able to retrieve new frogs from my breeder in a timely manner.

I had a bit more time to think over this issue. A couple of years ago, I worded the buyer terms to have one of the best guarantee's in the business, a live arrival on ALL animals and two week extended health guarantee on snakes. I've shipped well over 1000 orders thus far and had only 1 snake and 2 frogs arrive dead (this customer's).

I've read many folks do not have faith in USPS for amphibians, but I have had wonderful success, actually much better success with USPS than FEDEX or UPS.

Obviously I was wrongly under the influence that live arrival guarantee on frogs meant if they were delivered on time with express delivery, but actually cannot recall ever having any frogs arrive late before and never had a frog arrive dead before, so never ran across this issue shipping hundreds of frogs for almost 2 years. My guarantee is rewritten now to include if delivered on time with express shipping although I would honor any delay in the future.

I plan to issue the refund, but it may be important to note some information that might have been excluded or overlooked which would have voided any guarantee.

When I ship reptiles/amphibians, I request the customer notify me within an hour of delivery. It is a standard statement signature sent when I email tracking numbers. A copy is below. It is intended to avoid fraud and to be able to contact the buyer by telephone to investigate matters if need be.

The USPS (Postal Service) tracking number is to arrive before 12:00 PM. Please email that your shipment arrived before noon and/or within an hour of delivery if you can or shortly thereafter to inform that your order arrived in good condition.

Click here: USPS

Thank you.

Dan

DTS HERPS, INC.
5970 SW 18th Street
Suite 245
Boca Raton, FL 33433
954-426-8268


As was the case, the item was delivered at 11 AM and I was not notified until after 5 PM. See below for the copy of the delivery time and the email below depicting the time I was contacted.

Label/Receipt Number: ER37 5431 736U S
Status: Delivered
Your item was delivered at 11:22 AM on October 19, 2007 in DERWOOD, MD 20855. The item was signed for by D KIRBY.

10/19/2007 5:08:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected]
Reply To:
To: [email protected]
CC:
BCC:
Sent on:

Sent from the Internet (Details)
Internet Address Card Attached

Dan,

The frogs arrived this morning and two of them were dead. One is still alive, but it looks like it is on its way out. What do we need to do from here?

Erin



As such be the case, I was not notified within the hour, but about 5 hours later. I looked at some other folk's terms and they have similar statements to cover them. At the time of the problem, I was under the influence I was not notified in time, so no guarantee applied.

I ponder if some others would honor a refund or credit or new frogs if they were notified 4 hours late? Some made some mention in their comments they have such wordage.

Regardless, there is much behind the mind-set of a transaction not reviled in just a few emails during a purchase. Some may have not kept in mind that despite I was under the influence that since this was delivered outside express service and not covered by any guarantee, I did quickly respond and offered around $80 dollars in compensation to remedy the situation before it escalated to this forum. The purchase price being $105.00 shipped for the 3 frogs, so was about $20 short.

Not implying this was fraud, but had this been a case of fraud, I was willing to stick out the argument because I was not notified in time. Another odd thing was that this initial post popped up within a minutes after the buyer made a complaint into paypal and escalated it to a claim and it was then deleted by paypal, therefore not allowing me to consider it further or resolve the matter. It all seemed a bit odd - as if planned. And this is not mention to imply anything on the buyer, but to imply I thought at the time that this might be fraud and did not know the buyer. Another unknown to all is two months ago I received a threat from an ex-friend in Maryland, and the buyer is from Maryland, so I was paranoid at the gate when the buyer said anything arrived dead and followed to not share the burden despite I was misinterpreting my own guarantee.

Before the BOI complaint, I tallied what I offered to this customer (I might be off a bit because I am in somewhat of a fog now). Despite she reported only 2 frogs that arrived dead, I offered one free frog ($30 retail), two frogs at cost ($16 each), and about $20 contribution for shipping. That arrives roughly at $82 dollars and I received $105 dollars for the initial purchase of 3 frogs and shipping costs.

The buyer was to pay $32 dollars ($16 each for 2 of them) at cost but if you take into consideration the frog that arrived alive at $25 dollars, there is only a 7 dollar difference here. And knowing me, I would have thrown in fourth free frogs anyway.

I am in a fog and blurry to attend to family emergency matters but it seems my offer before this problem seems to perhaps covered the 2 frogs that arrived dead.

I appreciate the consideration folks took to help address my terms and get this straightened out. Again, my apologies to all and the customer and appreciate the help.

Thanks.

Dan
 
I'm glad you're going to make it right Dan. It's a small price to preserve your reputation.
As far as her not notifying you within an hour of arrival, that is excusable in this instance. She took the day off work the day they were supposed to arrive, and if they had gotten there when they were supposed to she could have notified you within an hour. She can't be expected to take two days off work to wait on the frogs though.
It was wise not to make an issue over that considering she made the reasonable effort of taking off work on the scheduled day of arrival.
 
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