DTS Herps, Inc...inquiry

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

I'm really torn about this right now...

In this past week, Ive seen 2 ads for snakes that I have really really wanted for some time. Regrettably though, they are all offered by DTS Herps, Inc. Without going into details that many of you are probably aware of right now, Dan Scolaro and DTS has had a lot of stuff said about them of late, and most of it is negative.

So here's the cons: I really prefer to stay away from anyone who allegedly has IBD in their collection. Yeah, it may or may not be the case, but like someone said in another thread, "where there's smoke, there's fire" and there seems to be a lot of smoke surrounding Dan.

However, all of the snakes I desire are colubrids, and last I checked, IBD has only been observed in boids. Plus, these are really good deals (which really mean nothing except I really want these snakes!)

So my main questions are: 1.) Do you think I should take the risk and get these snakes that are very hard to come by?...and 2.) despite recent allegations regarding IBD, what has others experience been like dealing with DTS? Hows the customer service? P & P? etc

Thanks for any feedback,
Michael Crabtree

 

[ravensgait]

Mike, if you have to ask us then you already know the answer.

Dan, have far more problems than the possibility of IBD, his customer service sucks, his TOS is written so that no matter what happens he thinks he isn't responsible. The guy has 'Don't Buy From Me' written all over him..

If you do decide to buy find out your states consumer laws, as they trump anyone's TOS...Randy

 

[MikeCurtin]

To buy from DTS at this point shows a willful disregard for everyone who has or will have their collection or their wallet put in jeopardy by this man. I think I gave him more of the benefit of the doubt than most others, but funding a shady operation such as this is pure negligence! Please find someone reputable...this hobby does not need Dan Scolaro around any longer than absolutely necessary.

 

[FubbyFifi]

I have bought from DTS Herps before. He did send me some good stuff at first but then I bought some various herps from him like pueblans, corn snakes, rhino vipers, basically a pretty sizeable order. I lost all the corn snakes, the rhino vipers, and the pueblan milksnake. He also sent me the wrong sex puff adder and I bought another pair from another breeder. When we discussed the sex of the puff adder at first he was helpful in reassuring me that the one I got from him were the right sex. When I finally probed them it turned out that I had 2 males. After I brought it up to him he changed his tune and said that he was pretty sure that I got the wrong sex from the other breeder. All he offers for a garauntee was to sell me another one at his cost. Basically he does not offer a garauntee, just a discount on another animal. The baby rhino viper died within a week and he says that he has a week garauntee on his animals. He blamed it on my husbandry and said I was keeping my animals in very dirty conditions. I have been keeping herps for 16 years and I really take very good measures to make sure they aren't staying in their own filth. I have sent off pictures of animals right after they have defecated but cleaned up the cage right afterwards. Even though I work 2 jobs I make sure I have time for cleaning no matter what. I thought he was a good guy at first but now I would no longer do any sort of business with him again. I am doubtng that the het for coral albino boa that he sent me is het for anything. That boa is still having problem regurgitating and I keep him in the same conditions as I do my other boas. He is more of a middle man then anything else and I think he should find a better supplier and honor his garauntees. I made some posts before sticking up for him and now I really regret doing so. He is not a person that will admit his problems. If he would have just said I'm sorry for your lost I would have been fine with that but attacking my cleanliness was just uncalled for. I work 2 jobs and don't have much money and for him to take my hard earned money is just very low. I would be very aware of him. There are more reputable dealers out there. They might not be easy to find but the board of inquiry is a great place to check people out.
Lary Vongsavanh

 

[lanceheads]

Randy, Dan's customer service never sucked for me. He sent me well represented animals that were healthy and If I ever needed to make a follow-up call to ask him anything, I recieved straight answers and no BS!
Of course, I only bought Venomous Snakes from him, and they were terrific!

And still are, to this day.

Randal

 

[Jim O]

Mike, if you have to ask us then you already know the answer.

I could not have said it better.

Don't read what anyone else says. Read what Dan says to his customers and others. Do you want to be treated like that in the event of a discrepancy? The guy is mentally unstable and doing business with him is risky.

The animals that you want will turn up from a reputable breeder, not a two-bit jobber, soon enough.

 

[critical bill]

However, all of the snakes I desire are colubrids, and last I checked, IBD has only been observed in boids. Plus, these are really good deals (which really mean nothing except I really want these snakes!)

Thanks for any feedback,
Michael Crabtree

You are incorrect when it comes to IBD as being only observed in boids.

With all the legitimate complaints (even a new one to pop up on this thread), the credible proof provided of IBD, and just the way Dan has responded so poorly to his customers, you really need the snakes that bad to take such a risk?

All good things come to those who wait. You really don't need them as badly as you think.

 

[MikeCurtin]

Randy, Dan's customer service never sucked for me. He sent me well represented animals that were healthy and If I ever needed to make a follow-up call to ask him anything, I recieved straight answers and no BS!
Of course, I only bought Venomous Snakes from him, and they were terrific!

And still are, to this day.

Randal

It's very good to see you've had good experiences in the past. This is not a loaded question, but please ask yourself this honestly. If you had not had past experience w/ DTS, but only had the BOI to go by (his posts and others), would you do business with him at this time? If so, please explain. BTW, I won't give you any about your response either way.

 

[ravensgait]

Wow Randal, seems you are one of a lucky handful that can say that. Funny how the thousands of customers Dan says he has had don't seem to show up here to comment on their transactions but you do... I guess you just missed all the complaints others have made here about Dan, and you surely must not have seen all the post he's made showing just what an ass he really is.. I think I've mentioned this to you before but will again.. Funny how you seem to get along so well with the scum of this hobby.. Yeah I know just posting your opinion but then so am I.. I don't find myself here defending scum just outing it ...Randy

 

[lanceheads]

Randy,
I would bet there are thousands of customers in the reptile community that don't know about the BOI. I bet there are thousands who are aware of the BOI and care not to participate.

I have not missed the complaints about Dan. I stated that my transactions with him were good, and I stand by that.

And furthermore Randy, I'm glad your doing your part in "outing" scum. Keep up the good work. And likewise, I will stand up and defend those who do right by me.

Randal

 

[Cat_72]

Don't read what anyone else says. Read what Dan says to his customers and others. Do you want to be treated like that in the event of a discrepancy? The guy is mentally unstable and doing business with him is risky.

VERY well stated as usual, Jim.

That's what it all boils down to, even the IBD put aside. Even if you were to read nothing but Dan's posts, there's only one conclusion to come to, IMO.

I believe Randal may have gotten some fine animals from Dan, but as has been stated many, many times before....the true measure of a seller is not how many good deals they have, it is how they handle it when one (or in Dan's case, several) go wrong.

Then, add in his complete lack of concern that a devastating disease has passed through his collection....well, it's a complete no-brainer for me.

Best of luck in finding the animals you are looking for. I've been there, looking for something specific, and when you see it, you really, really want to buy it, regardless of who is selling it....but you really need to step back and ask yourself if it is worth the risks involved.

 

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

You are incorrect when it comes to IBD as being only observed in boids.

I'm not disbelieving you or anything, but do you have some reference of it being documented in other snake families? I only said that just because I had never heard of it being observed outside of boids.

With all the legitimate complaints (even a new one to pop up on this thread), the credible proof provided of IBD, and just the way Dan has responded so poorly to his customers, you really need the snakes that bad to take such a risk?

All good things come to those who wait. You really don't need them as badly as you think.

You are all correct; I really don't need the snakes that badly (not too mention I really don't need to spend the monay on snakes right now anyway). I had already read some of the topics regarding Dan, but I really don't have the time to read 300+ pages of posts (which I think was just one thread!).

When I first posted this inquiry, I was about 75% sure I wasn't going to get them anyway. All of the feedback given here pretty much confirmed and re-inforced my misgivings about the ordeal. Thanks to all who responded.

Just a little background info, some of the snakes in question were albino house snakes. Everywhere else I see them offered, they are usually $300 a snake. Dan is selling some now for $375 for a pair. So imagine my glee when I first came across his ad. But oh well...you guys are right. Another deal will come along.

 

[Cat_72]

I'm not disbelieving you or anything, but do you have some reference of it being documented in other snake families? I only said that just because I had never heard of it being observed outside of boids.

Michael, there were some studies posted somewhere in the middle of one of the recent Dan Scolaro threads that named other families that it had been documented in, if I have time to wade thru the threads to find it, I'll post it up for you. But it IS there.

 

[Cat_72]

Wasn't so hard to find when I remembered who posted it, lol.

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/doortiz2/www/IBD.pdf

A lot of reading, but it does discuss diagnosed cases of IBD in Viperadae, a Kingsnake, and a very similar syndrome in cornsnakes whose parents had been indirectly in contact with an affected boid.

 

[critical bill]

I'm not disbelieving you or anything, but do you have some reference of it being documented in other snake families? I only said that just because I had never heard of it being observed outside of boids.

Actually you would have to look no further than Dan Scolaro's bad guy thread for those references. Its exactly where I learned IBD was not isolated to boids. There are links provided which validate that IBD has been documented in other snake families. Both venomous and non.

I'd love to provide you the exact posts directly but I'm really not up to wade through thousands of posts to find them. But they are there if you're interested in searching to find them.

 

[critical bill]

Thanks Cat!

 

[critical bill]

In 2001, inclusion body disease was
described in a group of vipers (Botriechis marchi, family
Viperidae); the source of the disease was unknown, and the
animals had had no contact with affected Boidae (Raymond
and others 2001). A diagnosis of inclusion body disease was
also made in a kingsnake (Lampropeltis getulus, family
Colubridae) that was housed together with boa constrictors
(Carlisle-Nowak and others 1998).

 

[Cat_72]

Thanks Cat!

Anytime, Chuck....glad to be of some help.

 

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

Thanks again.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

I have bought from DTS Herps before. He did send me some good stuff at first but then I bought some various herps from him like pueblans, corn snakes, rhino vipers, basically a pretty sizeable order. I lost all the corn snakes, the rhino vipers, and the pueblan milksnake. He also sent me the wrong sex puff adder and I bought another pair from another breeder. When we discussed the sex of the puff adder at first he was helpful in reassuring me that the one I got from him were the right sex. When I finally probed them it turned out that I had 2 males. After I brought it up to him he changed his tune and said that he was pretty sure that I got the wrong sex from the other breeder. All he offers for a garauntee was to sell me another one at his cost. Basically he does not offer a garauntee, just a discount on another animal. The baby rhino viper died within a week and he says that he has a week garauntee on his animals. He blamed it on my husbandry and said I was keeping my animals in very dirty conditions. I have been keeping herps for 16 years and I really take very good measures to make sure they aren't staying in their own filth. I have sent off pictures of animals right after they have defecated but cleaned up the cage right afterwards. Even though I work 2 jobs I make sure I have time for cleaning no matter what. I thought he was a good guy at first but now I would no longer do any sort of business with him again. I am doubtng that the het for coral albino boa that he sent me is het for anything. That boa is still having problem regurgitating and I keep him in the same conditions as I do my other boas. He is more of a middle man then anything else and I think he should find a better supplier and honor his garauntees. I made some posts before sticking up for him and now I really regret doing so. He is not a person that will admit his problems. If he would have just said I'm sorry for your lost I would have been fine with that but attacking my cleanliness was just uncalled for. I work 2 jobs and don't have much money and for him to take my hard earned money is just very low. I would be very aware of him. There are more reputable dealers out there. They might not be easy to find but the board of inquiry is a great place to check people out.
Lary Vongsavanh



This Lary is just FOS and angry because he did not get renew his venomous permit and I refused to sell to him in the future because of that simple fact. He now has other people ship him venomous snakes breaking the law.

He emailed to tell me that another dealer sent him 2 male puff adders and was confused if I did or not and I said I would give him a female at cost - if he renewed his permit and mailed me a copy. He did not. He had the corns for months and said they died and sent me photographs of his cages and snakes and they were all living in piles of turds and my guarantee does not extend out months especially if the snakes sleep on their poop. He asked me to run to a wholesaler and give him rhino vipers at cost and I strongly recommended he wait until I get them established and he refused to head my advice as half die anyway for some unknown reason so he got what he paid for. Based on the amount of turds in his cages, I would not send him another animal anyway as it would be a short life for it