East Ozark Reptiles - Larry Hastings

[KelliH]

I’m the worst when it comes to Genetics but it seem plausible to me and neither the producer nor East Ozark would know they were selling hybrids.

A very interesting point, and one that is indeed very plausible. It would not surprise me in the least if a few years ago some unethical someone crossed Texas Rats (Albinos Het for Leucistic? Albino Leucistics?) to Baird's Rats to create an "Albino Baird's". I remember getting up close scale shots of the Albinos when I first saw them available and I passed on them because something didn't look right to me.

 

[John E Dove]

Keith,
I agree with you that something is very funny here but you also have to admit the same thing.
Larry, to my knowledge, has always been an oustanding guy but so were Chris of TSE and Matt of MGR.
NO I AM NOT COMPARING HIM TO THEM. But they are examples of how the good guys can turn.

I don't understand all this but something is fishy somewhere in this story. Until it is cleared up I personally would suggest caution in any dealing with Mr. Hastings.

 

[PaulYancick]

I would like to know the origins of the first albino bairdi.I saw them posted on kingsnake around 4-5 years ago.Anyone?

 

[John E Dove]

I would like to know the origins of the first albino bairdi.I saw them posted on kingsnake around 4-5 years ago.Anyone?

You might want to post that as a topic on the Cornsnakes & Ratsnakes Discussion Forum http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=345 to avoid getting off topic here.
I'll be interested in reading a little on the subject there also.

 

[bogiehunter85]

Starting to get a clear picture

After some further looking into this amazing new leucy morph of the Baird's Ratsnake, I have found the following info.

The breeders name is supposed to be BOB VICO and he was set up at the last St. Louis and Tinley shows with these leucy bairdi. Apparently Vico was not trying to pull one over on anyone and told a number of people at both shows that he had crossed a bairdi with a leucy Texas Rat so he could reduce the size of the eyes. So it appears that the breeder was on the up and up here. So far.

As for LARRY HASTINGS........it is starting to look like he is another good guy turned crook. First of all, Hastings boasts of his 40 years in herps. He also boasts of his 35 year relationship with the breeder of these illicit leucys. All of the actions by Hastings show him to be a liar and a crook who was out to scam the novices in our hobby. He ran the add on KS for these @ $40 each. A number of people contacted him in utter disbelief that a new morph of bairdi existed. He was questioned on KS, but cried to the admin and they removed the postings claiming that the advertisement rule had been violated because there were postings of his price. LAME at least ! That's KS though - LAME is Barringers middle name. Hastings then pulled the ad, but re-listed them on his site upping the price to a whopping $75 each. He has REFUSED all questions, comments and will not reply to this even though he has been made aware this thread exists. At last check, he still insists on his site that they are PURE leucy bairdi and is offering them for sale as such.

Obviously, Larry Hastings and East Ozark Reptile are just plain crooks and scammers.

 

[John E Dove]

After some further looking into this amazing new leucy morph of the Baird's Ratsnake, I have found the following info.

The breeders name is supposed to be BOB VICO and he was set up at the last St. Louis and Tinley shows with these leucy bairdi. Apparently Vico was not trying to pull one over on anyone and told a number of people at both shows that he had crossed a bairdi with a leucy Texas Rat so he could reduce the size of the eyes. So it appears that the breeder was on the up and up here. So far.

As for LARRY HASTINGS........it is starting to look like he is another good guy turned crook. First of all, Hastings boasts of his 40 years in herps. He also boasts of his 35 year relationship with the breeder of these illicit leucys. All of the actions by Hastings show him to be a liar and a crook who was out to scam the novices in our hobby. He ran the add on KS for these @ $40 each. A number of people contacted him in utter disbelief that a new morph of bairdi existed. He was questioned on KS, but cried to the admin and they removed the postings claiming that the advertisement rule had been violated because there were postings of his price. LAME at least ! That's KS though - LAME is Barringers middle name. Hastings then pulled the ad, but re-listed them on his site upping the price to a whopping $75 each. He has REFUSED all questions, comments and will not reply to this even though he has been made aware this thread exists. At last check, he still insists on his site that they are PURE leucy bairdi and is offering them for sale as such.

Obviously, Larry Hastings and East Ozark Reptile are just plain crooks and scammers.

It may still be a little premature to pin the bad guy badge on Mr. Hastings yet.
Was Mr. Hastings even at that show?
Did Mr. Hastings himself purchase these from Mr. Vico?
Did Mr. Hastings even speak with Mr. Vico?
It is still possible he is also being scammed by the person he purchased these snake from and trusts that persons word. As we have seen even here on the BOI when some of the good guys went bad it was hard for many of their long time friends and associates to finally realize the bad guys had gone bad or were lying.
Agreed he should be asking questions of his own and is making himself look bad by not responding to inquiries, but "crooks and scammers(?)", even for crosses $40 or now $75 dollars doesn't make them much and is not to out of line for the market from what I can tell.
I don't know Mr. Hastings personally and after checking my records I have never made a purchase from him but he has had a few things I considered.
At this point I am still at the stage where he is on my No Deal With list but has not moved the next step to Bad Guy and Scammer.

 

[bogiehunter85]

Base on the facts

Mr. Hastings has not bothered to clear this up or restore his good name. His insistance that he and the breeder have a 35 year relationships seems to indicate a scam. What else do we have to go on ?

You want to step in here Larry ?

 

[Cat_72]

Then several names were thrown around to back up this claim of PURE leucy bairdi. The male original albino bairdi was purchased from BRIAN BARCHECK in '01. A normal female was purchased from EVAN STAHL also in '01. This breeding produced hets that were bred back to the albino male to get the four original leucy bairdi. Anyone know either of these guys ?

Brian Barcyzk (BHB Enterprises) is a very well known breeder.....his first work with the pure albino Bairdi was questioned back in 2001, I believe. His stock originated in Europe, and was said to be pure.

Evan Stahl is pretty well known too (a bit "infamous" in some circles, lol, but IMO an honest sorta guy). I purchased some het BP from him. Don't know his history with Bairdi.

Have you spoken to ANY of these people that you have named, or are you just repeating what you "heard"? How do you know that the breeder of the snakes in question indeed was Bob Vico?

 

[John E Dove]

Evan Stahl is pretty well known too (a bit "infamous" in some circles, lol, but IMO an honest sorta guy). I purchased some het BP from him. Don't know his history with Bairdi.

Have you spoken to ANY of these people that you have named, or are you just repeating what you "heard"? How do you know that the breeder of the snakes in question indeed was Bob Vico?

Is Evan Stahl also Evansnakes?
If so, there is a link between him and Mr. Vico in Fauna back in 2004 but not related to snakes.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-58454.html

 

[Cat_72]

Is Evan Stahl also Evansnakes?
If so, there is a link between him and Mr. Vico in Fauna back in 2004 but not related to snakes.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-58454.html

Yep, that would be the Evan Stahl I know of.

Good huntin', John.

 

[snake5007]

For leucys to have EVER been produced by this breeding, both the albino male and the "normal" female would have had to be het leucy. And then it would have shown up in the first breeding.

In this statement i take it you're talking about the female that was purchased the same year as the male?


See, if the male was het for leucy, then that means that the babies have a 50/50 chance of being het for it too. The genetics could add up, but, i have to admit that i've never heard of leucistic bairdis.

 

[East Ozark Reptile]

When the question about these Baird’s rats first came up, I called Bob Vico, the breeder, and he told me how this morph came about. It’s exactly as it is written on my website and copied and pasted in this thread.

I called him today, after I read the posts saying that he supposedly told people that these weren’t pure Bairdi. I asked him about the accusation that he bred a Baird’s to a leucy Texas rat and he said that’s a totally different clutch of animals and has nothing to do with the 8 animals I bought from him.

The animals that I got from him and have for sale on my website are pure Barid’s ratsnakes. If you do not believe this, please take it up with Bob Vico, St. Louis Reptile. I’m only repeating what Bob Vico told me personally.

As for the price change, I pay a person to do my website and she messed up the prices on the Baird’s. She also messed up the prices on Cali. Kings and Corns, FYI. Why no BOI thread on those mistakes?

I don’t know who you are, Michael Duckworth but you are not telling the whole truth.

Several people contacted the company inquiring about these.

We were contacted by one person, Bob Sloan of Alterna Ranch in Texas.

Yet at this point he will not reply to requests for additional info or to sell them.

I will never reply to Bob Sloan again.

The company has not replied to any of my contacts regarding these snakes.

A Michael Duckworth has never contacted us.

Hastings cried to KS and my inquiry was pulled.

Prove this, please, Michael. KS was NEVER contacted by us.

I'm not interested in a fight here - just honest info.....

Your posts say otherwise.

He has also been informed of this post on several ocassions.

I was informed ONCE by. . . Bob Sloan.

Hastings has been both advised and asked to respond to this. His refusal is an obvious attempt to continue the scam. I would buy NOTHING from this guy in the future.

And I won’t sell anything to you or Bob Sloan.

If he will lie about these bairdi and then refuse to answer - why would anyone ever trust or buy from him on something that is questionable to begin with because it is not visible ? I sure wouldn't.

Again, I will never sell to you. And where is my lie? Prove it. I have not lied about anything.

Also, a bunch of these leucy bairdi were sold at the Tinley Park Show in Chicago in October '07.

Bob Vico cleared this up for me today. He did NOT have these in Tinley, as I previously thought he did, they hadn’t hatched yet. He did have them at the St. Louis show which is where I bought them.

Nobody in thier right mind who was worth a in dealing herps would sell one of a kind snakes like that for cheap.

This is too funny. Again, we’re talking Baird’s ratsnakes here. $75 is a fair price
for this type of snake, a type of rat snake that doesn’t sell well. You can go on and on about how rare it is but, in the end, it still boils down to demand . . . . and demand for this type of snake is very low.



Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:18:13 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
From: "Bob Sloan" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert

To: "East Ozark Reptile" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: 5.3 Leucistic Baird's Rat Snake Babies

Leucy Baird's ???? Who is the Breeder ??? Is he going to call me or Not ???/ Are they for sale ? How much ??? Just like to know the real story here !!! ????

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Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 11:57:48 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
From: "Bob Sloan" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert

To: "East Ozark Reptile" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: 5.3 Leucistic Baird's Rat Snake Babies

So Larry.......what is the story on these supposed leucy bairdi ? You pulled thead from KS and then cried to them when someone else posted your BS. Now you have them listed on your site for $75 ! Either you are running a scam or you are just plain stupid when it comes to the reptile business. If you do have pure leucy bairdi, you are the only person on earth that does - $75 ???
Just FYI - you made the hit parade on Fauna Classifieds BOI ! Your crying will not work there to get the posts pulled and the concensus is - you and your leucy bairdi are a fraud !

******************************************

 

[East Ozark Reptile]

His insistance that he and the breeder have a 35 year relationships seems to indicate a scam.

Why would that indicate a scam? I have known Bob Vico for a little over 35 years. You're grasping at straws now, trying to pick a fight.

Larry Hastings-Owner-East Ozark Reptile

 

[Ken Harbart]

Why would that indicate a scam? I have known Bob Vico for a little over 35 years. You're grasping at straws now, trying to pick a fight.

Larry Hastings-Owner-East Ozark Reptile

That's what Bob Sloan does best. He's a one trick pony.

 

[snake5007]

I think someone got busted.

 

[keith2]

East Ozark Reptiles

It may still be a little premature to pin the bad guy badge on Mr. Hastings yet.Was Mr. Hastings even at that show?
Did Mr. Hastings himself purchase these from Mr. Vico?
Did Mr. Hastings even speak with Mr. Vico?

Mr. Hastings has not bothered to clear this up or restore his good name. His insistance that he and the breeder have a 35 year relationships seems to indicate a scam. What else do we have to go on ?

I was at that same show. Yes Larry was there. And yes Mr. Vico was there.
And yes, Larry has known Vico for many years. I have know Larry and Vico myself for many years. So it appears that his "insistence that he and the breeder have a 35 year relationship," rather than being evidence of a scam, is absolutely true!

As for "clearing up his good name," nothing has been shown yet that tarnishes it.

I still have not seen one single piece of "evidence" that pans out against Larry.

Obviously, Larry Hastings and East Ozark Reptile are just plain crooks and scammers.

Michael: The only obvious thing here seems to be that you would attempt to assassinate someones character without real proof. That says a lot more about you than Larry.

Larry has a long and very good record in the reptile business. He has proven himself to be a good guy. And so, I will ask one more time seeing how it has so far went unanswered: Name one person who has ever been cheated or scammed by Larry Hastings???

Keith Thompson
AborealHerps.com

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Well...since Superpages.com does not list a Michael Duckworth in Minnestota..... and since their writing styles are eerily similar.....and since Bobby Sloan is computer savvy enough to log in from a remote dial up connection....let me be the first to actually suggest


Michael Duckworth IS Bob Sloan.

 

[snake5007]

Well...since Superpages.com does not list a Michael Duckworth in Minnestota..... and since their writing styles are eerily similar.....and since Bobby Sloan is computer savvy enough to log in from a remote dial up connection....let me be the first to actually suggest


Michael Duckworth IS Bob Sloan.

Or BS for short.

 

[PaulYancick]

I dont know Sloan,Larry,or Vico.I have nothing to do with any of them.I really want to hear about these miracle bairds(by the way Larry there spelled bairdi).The price ranges on these snakes are between $60 to $100 for normals.So after being in the business for 35 years how did you come up with the astounding price of $45 for such a rare batch of pure snakes?

 

[snake5007]

I dont know Sloan,Larry,or Vico.I have nothing to do with any of them.I really want to hear about these miracle bairds(by the way Larry there spelled bairdi).The price ranges on these snakes are between $60 to $100 for normals.So after being in the business for 35 years how did you come up with the astounding price of $45 for such a rare batch of pure snakes?

He said he was selling them at $75.