Eastern/Western Diamondback ID

[AcidFreeze]

What visual differences do these 2 have so that I may better ID them? I have 1.1.0 Atrox and have come to be curious as to the difference; even after googling the pics really don't know. The National Audubon Societies "Reptiles and Amphibian" book seems to mention that the western has encircled broad black and white rings which is why they are calling it the "coon tail rattler"; but makes no mention of the same on the Eastern.
There is mention of rows of scales W. having 25-27, and the E. having 27-29; but if I were in the field I wouldn't want to try to count rows while it was trying to evade me.
Ref: pg. 686-687 Western
Ref: pg. 685-686 Eastern
Thanks. Greg

 

[Clay Davenport]

Do a Google image search on the two, they are quite easy to distinguish. The tail is a good indicator as you mentioned, the easterns lack the black and white rings.
Regardless though, if you were in the field you would know which one of the two you were looking at, as long as you knew where you were anyway.

 

[hhmoore]

If you were in the field, the most useful thing to differentiate the two would be knowing where you were (the ranges don't overlap). From a strictly visual perspective, the base colors are USUALLY different - with the Eastern tending toward yellow or olive, vs the Western's grey. Both species can be brown,though, and, at a quick look, those specimens are a bit more difficult to differentiate.
Both species have a post-ocular stripe (diagonal)...the Eastern's tends to stand out more due to the stark contrast with their lighter colored face, while the stripe on the Western usually blends in better with their coloring. Once again, though, on darker colored Easterns this becomes less reliable.
Both species also have tail bands; however the Western's black and (off)white bands are very distinct, whereas the Easterns black bands are on a darker ground color that often disguises them...especially at a glance.

 

[hhmoore]

I hate when I have to answer a page in the middle of a post, lol, somebody always comes in and says what I am in the middle of typing.

 

[jsrocket]

What visual differences do these 2 have so that I may better ID them? I have 1.1.0 Atrox and have come to be curious as to the difference; even after googling the pics really don't know. The National Audubon Societies "Reptiles and Amphibian" book seems to mention that the western has encircled broad black and white rings which is why they are calling it the "coon tail rattler"; but makes no mention of the same on the Eastern.
There is mention of rows of scales W. having 25-27, and the E. having 27-29; but if I were in the field I wouldn't want to try to count rows while it was trying to evade me.
Ref: pg. 686-687 Western
Ref: pg. 685-686 Eastern
Thanks. Greg

You "have" Wdb's, but don't know the difference between them and edb's. UH, ok... sheesh. BTW, i got a couple cobras on the cheap...

 

[jsrocket]

forgot stupid emoticon

 

[AcidFreeze]

You "have" Wdb's, but don't know the difference between them and edb's. UH, ok... sheesh. BTW, i got a couple cobras on the cheap...

Sarcasm sucks; and you should take it somewhere else. I don't care what you claim to have; I need information on the topic I posted - not frivolous snide remarks such as yours.If your gonna act like a female canine GO TO KS; or take it out on your childern they are probibly used to it.

 

[Ken Harbart]

Sarcasm sucks; and you should take it somewhere else. I don't care what you claim to have; I need information on the topic I posted - not frivolous snide remarks such as yours.If your gonna act like a female canine GO TO KS; or take it out on your childern they are probibly used to it.

No, the sarcasm was entirely appropriate. You're keeping venomous snakes but are demonstrating ignorance of something very fundamental. That's the type of thing that gets people killed and leads to increased regulation of other keepers.

As others have said, your biggest clue "in the field" is going to be where you're located. If you're out west, then you'll see wdb's. Here in the southeastern states, you'll see edb's. The ranges don't overlap.

 

[jsrocket]

Simmer down, Greg. I am not sure if you are talking about "keeping" rattlesnakes or what.

If you are not, then the point is mute, and you are best advised to AVOID venomous snakes.

Leave them alone. If you do, they will not bother you.

For identification purposes, there is the good old "Peterson Field Guide", etc.

If you get bit, the ID western vs. eastern is the last thing you gotta worry about.

 

[AcidFreeze]

My atrox

Here is a picture of my Male. I have never seen an eastern 1 on 1 and just wanted to know the difference in the two so when I do go to Hamberg or something similar I do not get ripped off.
As for hots and nots over 1/2 of my personal collection is hot.
Oh and for the cynical he is in his feeding cage; when he's done I put him back in with the female and then it's her turn.



That said I do appreciate the positive responses and will reference them

 

[jsrocket]

Reference this. Yearling WDB. Completely capable of costing you fingers.

 

[AcidFreeze]

Jim Ritchie

You should go somewhere else. Go play with your cobras. I SIMPLY NEEDED INFO NOT ( POOP, CRAP, FECES, ect ) FROM A PENIS now P L E A S E go play elsewhere.
Some People .

 

[Tim Cole]

That's enough!

Greg,
Get yourself a real fieldguide and throw out the bird/snake guide which does not have accurate photos portraying our native snakes. The information you asked for is readily available in any good book or website. You should probably have researched this better before posting on this site. Your language to Jim wasn't any better than his to you.

Jim,
You are not helping with the attitude. If we can respond in a professional manner, we might educate someone. Or they may just go away and let the thread die when they realize how elementary the discussion is.

I agree that we do need to police ourselves and others interested in keeping venomous snakes but calling them to the mat right away is going to cause our advice to fall on deaf ears.

 

[jsrocket]

You're half right, Tim. (IMHO) Calling someone out like I did was not a friendly gesture, and could well turn someone off, when they could have been helped. I am not against helping people with a desire to learn.

But, I am not willing to give handling and husbandry advice to someone who has obviously not bothered to do even the most basic research. With a potentially deadly force, I expect a certain level of responsibility. Responsibility which is clearly lacking here. Telling this guy to either do his homework, or stop owning rattlesnakes is the biggest favor I could do for him. Not that it would probably make a difference

This person's mind will not be changed. But, maybe other people will read this, and rethink the idea of owning a venomous reptile. It is a very dedicated endeavor, not something you just do, and then ask questions on a reptile forum.

 

[AcidFreeze]

The Light

"Wow" your right. 191. What was I thinking; asking for trivial information and assistance on a forum.
Huhh "who would have thunk it"

Silly me
________________________________________________________________
Greg Ville

 

[AcidFreeze]

256 Hmmm. Well after some more search and study; size as well as more dominant white with black stripes on the tail seems to be the answer to my original question.

Thanx for the bad experience with those who chose to be arrogant rather then giving a positive helping hand.

_______________---------------------___________________-----------------------

Greg Ville.

 

[AcidFreeze]

I forgot. My bad. Thanks Clay, and Harold; you are what keeps this place ticking.

 

[fishmich]

i dont visit this forum too often but thought id check it out today and i just came across this forum.
acidfreeze, you shouldnt take so much offense to what has been said here. people who have been keeping venomous snakes for many years have seen manay changes in the laws involving venomous snakes mostly due to people who get into the hobby without the proper knowledge. you have to understand that people are very protective and dont want to lose their right to do something they have worked very hard for. you should know that saying you keep a certain species and then asking how to tell the difference between that and another species is going to raise some red flags. also keep in mind that if you dont act like a high school kid in your responses, you will earn a lot more respect and people will be more willing to help. good luck to you and your snakes. an atrox is nothing to just keep because it is cool. even at that size, it is dangerous and an adult can be a very overwhelming force to be reckoned with. id like to say again that you have to expect some criticism from the venomous community when you dont have the basic knowledge you should have years before obtaining the species.
just out of curiosity, did you purchase the snakes from someone in michigan?

 

[fishmich]

just out of curiosity, did you purchase the snakes from someone in michigan?

to add to this question, was it from somewhere in the flint area perhaps? feel free to respond in pm form if you like. also how do you know they are 1.1, did you probe them, are you guessing based on bodily characteristics, or were you just told thats what they were?

 

[AcidFreeze]

Nope

"Nope" to the Where question ( just out of curiosity, did you ); as for any of the other questions - I will never respond due to ridiculous scrutinisers who would rather pointlessly argue rather then helping others on a positive manner. Even though I've been tinkering around with herps for quite some time.

i dont visit this forum too often but thought id check it out today and i just came across this forum.
acidfreeze, you shouldnt take so much offense to what has been said here. people who have been keeping venomous snakes for many years have seen manay changes in the laws involving venomous snakes mostly due to people who get into the hobby without the proper knowledge. you have to understand that people are very protective and dont want to lose their right to do something they have worked very hard for. you should know that saying you keep a certain species and then asking how to tell the difference between that and another species is going to raise some red flags. also keep in mind that if you dont act like a high school kid in your responses, you will earn a lot more respect and people will be more willing to help. good luck to you and your snakes. an atrox is nothing to just keep because it is cool. even at that size, it is dangerous and an adult can be a very overwhelming force to be reckoned with. id like to say again that you have to expect some criticism from the venomous community when you dont have the basic knowledge you should have years before obtaining the species.
just out of curiosity, did you purchase the snakes from someone in michigan?